JohnGaunt wrote:What are other stores across the US doing?

I will be running Castles & Crusades demos all day at Chimera Hobbies in Appleton, Wisconsin. Characters will be provided, and you can join in any time, though if there's enough interest, I will need to limit the table to ~8 players at a time.

jamesmishler wrote:It was assumed that the retailers would actually do some sort of work to push the event locally

This is my biggest gripe about the hobby today, and why I don't mind seeing so many stores continue to go out of business.  Most hobby stores I've frequented (and I've lived in 6 different cities in 3 different states in the last 2 1/2 years alone, so I've been to a lot of hobby/comic stores) do absolutely NOTHING to promote the hobby.  They open a store, and sit around hoping soccer moms find them and buy crap for their kids.  If they do comics, they survive on existing subscribers alone, and do nothing to get new customers. I feel nothing when these idiots go out of business.  I know too many hobby/comic stores where the owner doesn't even play a single game they sell or read a single comic book. WTF?  Why are you running a comic store if you have no interest in comics?

Badmike wrote:
         Free Game Day in the D/FW area is starting to have some ominous overtones.
  There seems to be a indication that there will be little or no chance to actually walk away with a coveted promo product from one of the anticipated publishers (Goodman Games, Castles & Crusades, etc) and absolutely zero chance of picking up mulitple copies (sorry, UK and overseas members). From another Acaeum member I've been told at his local store free copies will ONLY be given to people actually participating in demos, and even my local store is running demos (with the hints that you have to participate to walk away with any free product) by a "group" that might be controlling distribution of the freebies (i.e., you only get one if you win a contest or participate in a game or win a giveaway)
    I'm pretty sure I can walk out of at least one store with a copy of one of the sought after items (hell, I'll roll up a character and die five minutes later in a blaze of glory if that guarantees me an item), but I would say the chances of acquiring any for our European or Australian brothers is pretty much none and none.  

Mike B.

Official response from my local Lone Star Comics to the question "Will you be giving out free RPG product on Free Game day?"  

"No, but you'll be allowed to play the games for free in our stores".  

The person I talked to further explained, what the "free" in Free Day Day means is that you can come into their stores and play games for free....just like you supposedly can any regular Saturday.  I'm not making this up! They said the "Free" part refers to the materials such as dice, books, etc, which will be "free" to anyone playing (though not to be taken home...it's only free while your in the store....after the game is over, the materials will go back into the store).  

The local LSC is running four games...one of them a D&D game....and places are limited to 8 seats per game (32 people).  I understand these 32 MAY be allowed to take home free product "If there is enough for everyone".  Being that each store supposedly has 100 pieces per store, it's interesting to imagine where all that free game product is going to end up.....
I will no longer patronize my local Lone Star Comics, or any LSC in the entire chain (based in Dallas/Fort Worth).  For years they have been a toy store masquerading as a game/comic store, and rumors have abounded that the new owner DETESTS RPGs with a passion (think about some of the piss-poor gaming displays in the local LSC stores).  This pretty much proves the point.  I'd call on anyone who shops a local LSC to think about switching to an independent after this disgrace.  I would also call on anyone in the game industry sending them freebies to think about what they are doing with the supposedly free product they are supposed to be giving away (and as an aside, LSC does NOT carry many of the games advertised as having freebies, such as Castles and Crusades, so it does them no good to distribute the free stuff anyway for game systems they don't even have for sale).

My FLGS, who I spoke with today, WILL be giving out free RPGs and game product to whoever wants it.  They already had my business, they just got it even more (I'll make a point to purchase something when I go there Saturday to pick up my freebies).

Badmike wrote:Free Game Day in the D/FW area is starting to have some ominous overtones.

I still have wavering faith in the Lone Star stores . . .

I do purchase stuff there and have been to most of the stores.  Two of the stores might even recognize me.  If I buy some RPG stuff at 20% off and ask for the swag, then my chances off getting something are better.

The local LSC is running four games...one of them a D&D game....and places are limited to 8 seats per game (32 people). I understand these 32 MAY be allowed to take home free product "If there is enough for everyone". Being that each store supposedly has 100 pieces per store, it's interesting to imagine where all that free game product is going to end up.....

Obvious choices are employees' collections, eBay, the Lone Star Comics website, in-store inventory . . .

My FLGS, who I spoke with today, WILL be giving out free RPGs and game product to whoever wants it. They already had my business, they just got it even more (I'll make a point to purchase something when I go there Saturday to pick up my freebies).

He may have a convert if I strike out on Saturday.  He'll at least have a convert for the day, and I'll spend money at his store that day.  If Lone Star completely screws me, then I'll definitely stop going there . . .

I'm curious to see how this pans out in the end and see who ends up getting a copy.  I think I've arranged to get a copy shipped up here to Canada. I'm about 90% sure it will pan out.  Maybe we'll put up a pole on Saturday.

Blarg.

jamesmishler wrote:Sorry if I'm coming across harsh here, I've just been dealing with a lot of e-mails and posts along these lines, and "Hey, thanks for free stuff" comments are few and far between...

Hell, even *I* don't have a copy of Tell Qa! Every copy went to the retailers...

Now my collection won't be complete...

I'll say "Hey, thanks for free stuff" if I get any.  If I don't, I won't, it's that simple. I do, however, appreciate the thought. I think this thing will do a lot, lot better in the future if/when the kinks are worked out, though.

I don't think I ever complained about any of the issues you wrote in the above post...I don't blame  the publishers very much.  Unlike the fiasco at last year's Gencon when Goodman Games published only 60 copies of a bonafide, certifiable instant collectible, and ran out in about 5 minutes, then tried to act dumb and say they simply had no idea that few copies would disappear that fast (despite being knowledgable about earlier copies garnering 100's of dollars on ebay).  I think the publishers for Free Game Day went above and beyond, frankly, as the easiest thing to do would be to simply have told everyone that you weren't going to print any more copies or solicit any more retailers.  But then people would have just bitched even more.
    I put most of the blame on the retailers. At this stage, I don't want to be too cynical, but I have to question where all the product is going if stores aren't giving away any copies (or less than 40 out of a 100 per store allotment). I become cynical enough to think that maybe a few might appear on ebay in the near future at outlandish prices....from store employees.
    A small bit of the blame, unfortunately, has to be put on the game publishers. Sorry to be blunt. Free Game Day, much like Free Comic Day, isn't some altruistic endeavor for the companies involved (if it is, I apologize fully, but again I am cynical...).  Sure one purpose is to get buyers in stores...but I would hope another purpose is to get prospective buyers to look at and perhaps even purchase the game lines advertised.  This being said, Free Game Day is advertisting, and cheap advertising at that.  For a break even price, you are getting loads of product into stores to be given away....and hopefully find it's way into the hands of people interested enough to buy the product.
  (As an aside to the power of "freebies":  I made a trade online a week ago from another member for a couple of Castles and Crusades modules for some gaming stuff from my store he wanted.  I had never cracked a C&C module, although I do have the boxed set, and wanted to get a feel for the game because rules alone don't bring the same "feel".  After reading the modules, I was hooked...I wanted more.  At some point in the future, I will try to buy the entire line of product.  So, something I had never seen before, but because I got a couple of "freebies", I am now going to hunt down with the ferocity of a completist.)

Personally, I am a collector, but frankly I would just like a copy of the adventure.  If it is truly "Free Game Day", then are these "freebies" going to be released as pdfs for sale or for free in the near future?  If not, why not?


To take your points:

I would gladly sit through the "drudgery" of a demo...if there were any spots open at any of my local stores.  There are none.

Anyone complaining about no glossy art, interior art, not enough pages, etc is very simply, an asshat. It's that simple. It's FREE people.  Geez.

I understand not being able to ship the product internationally...it becomes cost prohibitive (in my line of work I ship quite a bit overseas).  I would assume because of this, all the freebies are going to be posted as downloadable pdfs on the associated publisher's web sites? No?  No excuses why not then...if you can't ship the product overseas, fine.  If the companies involved can't bring themselves to post a pdf for the benefit of the "collector", or "completist", or just plain "interested fan"....well, I guess the international buyer isn't that important, then.

If it sounds from my comments I'm an obssessed collector/fan, well..I'm really not.  Seriously, if I could get my D&D group together for a game Saturday, I probably wouldn't even waste my time schlepping around town trying to get a copy of some of these. If I hadn't promised some international buddies of mine that are more interested than I am I wouldn't at least TRY toget them a copy, the day would maybe pass nicely after my one stop at the FLGS where my buddy manages to get my one free copy, and that's that, time for lunch.  

I'm just always fascinated when someone from a professional company deflects back on the supposed consumers of their product as a reflexive measure of self preservation. James, I am not hammering you, I promise. I understand you are letting off steam and probably sitting there shaking your head at the unreasonable demands being made of you at this point.  But when will the game publishers "get it"?  Dudes, we LIKE YOU, WE REALLY, REALLY LIKE YOU!!!

If we didn't care, you wouldn't have to answer any whining emails about how the freebie module doesn't contain it's own illustration book with scratch and sniff ("Ok, guys, here's the mummy's tomb...now scratch and sniff.....oh god, that's bad....") No, you would be subject to the silent, abject indifference of...nothing.  Because no one would care if the C&C giveaway is 16 pages, 32 pages, or a 100 lb boxed set.  The fact you are getting so many inquiries should be some indication of the level of interest out there...more than you guys thought.

Underwhelming expectations seems to be a problem in the industry. I will never, never forget Joe Goodman's "incredulous" response to the fact 100's of DCC fans were just a teeny bit pissed that the Gen Con DCC special 1st edition module had a print run of 6O FREAKING COPIES.  That sold out in about 30 minutes, which would have been faster, mind you, since they were also actually selling mulitple copies to buyers!!!!  This after Joe Goodman ACKNOWLEDGED on a website that another convention freebie, the 3.5 Haunted Lighthouse, was going for a ton of money on Ebay at the time!  Knowing this, Goodman games ignores the fact SOMEONE MIGHT ACTUALLY WANT THE ADVENTURE, and lowballs the print run.  It makes no sense.  And the worst part was, rather than admit a mistake, Goodman Games immediately went on the defensive and attacked the mentally of the collector and gave excuses like they didn't know the module would be popular enough to sell out. (Guys....Gen Con...it's supposed to be pretty big I hear....60 copies...give me a break already).  Only when slammed repeatedly did Goodman Games relent and offer a "special" reprint of the module for the enjoyment of the masses.  

Think of all the gamers and Goodman Games fans that walked about from that table at Gen Con with a sour taste in their mouth...hundreds?  At least. Nice marketing move, guys.  I'm no marketing major, or publicity flak, but I probably should go to school and get my degree.  Proper response: "We goofed up.  We had no idea that there were so many passionate, loyal, and rabid fans that the small print run would immediately sell out.  Another edition will be issued asap, and it won't happen again, our fans have spoken!". BTW it was made alright in the end, but there were several moments when as a FAN of the Goodman Games product, I was never going to purchase one of their publications again due to the piss-poor handling of this event.  The point is, events like this DO AFFECT PERCEPTION of the companies involved...good or bad.  Maybe Duke university had nothing to do with three innocent men being dragged through the mud by an insane DA, but whenever I think of "Duke University" in the near future, it won't be because of their basketball team.....If a DCC "freebie" isn't available anywhere on Saturday, yet many copies appear on Ebay the next Monday from online stores, and carrying a $50 price tag, well.....

I'm not saying that on any level Free Game Day will equal that debacle (Duke lacrosse team OR DCC 12.5 1st edition).  But the level of response you are getting should tip you off....you guys were a little too conservative in your initial estimates. Maybe WAY too conservative.  No problem, the motto is "leave them wanting more", right?  But in the current climate, where a lot of games are hanging on to market by fingernails, what good is it going to do when someone who has heard about Free Game Day, decides to go down to their FLGS and pick up a free DCC module to see what they look like, since the covers look really kewl and old school and all that, and when they arrive are told "Well, I know it's Free Game Day, but we really don't have free product for you."  Maybe Curious Buyer Guy just shrugs his shoulders and moves on to the Warhammer minis are whatever.  All the free advertising does Nada for your product lines.

Every single gamer who walks out of a FLGS without free product (free stuff has been advertised, btw) is a minus for you guys, and you know it.  If you don't know it, I would recommend another line of work, where perhaps you guys don't get bombarded with emails BEGGING for your product...lots of those out there.

Once again, James, I'm not harranguing you in particular....but when you throw things out like "It's not Gamer Christmas", I have to wonder if you see the forest for the trees.  I realize a lot of that is frustration and the fact you will never be able to please everyone with an event like this.  I do appreciate your willingness to come online and explain some of the nuts and bolts of the production, much better than the old TSR regime's "Campaign of Silence" during the time they were shut down in the mid 90s (one of the crassest insults on gamers in gaming history).  

I do hope the day is a success, and I suppose in some venues everything will work out superbly.  In some spots, not so much, but it's not like you can micromanage each game store that ordered product.  Hell, I wouldn't be surprised for some enterprising Mom and Pops to keep the entire box of freebies and resell them on Ebay the next week, reasoning away the guilt wth little effort.  Please take this post in the same tone as your post...a guy blowing off a little steam, because that's all it is.  

Mike B.

Badmike wrote:
Aaaannnnnnnnd....this is the part where I look like a moron for responding to a post that has been removed.  Ok, you win James  

I get the feeling you were just blowing off a little steam....please take my post in the same spirit....

Mike B.

Its okay Mike.  I saw the original post.  I know it did exist and that you aren't going crazy ... well at least not over this.

Yeah, sorry for censoring myself. I know that's uncool, but things just.. burbled... over... the... top.

Been a long week. Three magazine deadlines at work between last Wednesday and today. Free RPG Day coming up. Gen Con arrangements to make. Printing and writing stuff to consider. And then the e-mails I get... it's just... too much.

I read Monte Cook's latest post about his personal journeys through the RPG industry, and I totally know where he's coming from about people just being burned out and cynical. I consider my AGP stuff to be a way to get away from that end of the business...

Ah well.