Certificates of Survival
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 1
Author


Prolific Collector

Posts: 760
Joined: Dec 31, 2005
Last Visit: Feb 28, 2021
Location: Dallas, TX

Post Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:22 pm 
 

Could someone help me identifying what game system, boxset, or accessory these were for?

http://www.geocities.com/tgabel/DSCN2927.JPG

I have a pad of 10 of them, for Rider Creations 1978. They are 8" x 9 1/2". The backs are green blank.

  

User avatar

Sage Collector

Posts: 2332
Joined: Feb 20, 2006
Last Visit: Aug 27, 2017
Location: Shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods

Post Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:32 pm 
 

Sea-to-sky-games wrote:Could someone help me identifying what game system, boxset, or accessory these were for?

http://www.geocities.com/tgabel/DSCN2927.JPG

I have a pad of 10 of them, for Rider Creations 1978. They are 8" x 9 1/2". The backs are green blank.

AFterglow doesn't have it on its Pandora page, but it looks like it might belong there:

. . . http://www.afterglow2.com/Product/Pandora.htm

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 6067
Joined: May 03, 2003
Last Visit: Feb 08, 2021
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

Post Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:33 pm 
 

Are all 10 in the pad the Certificate of Survival?

Typically, these should be about 10 different certificates.  The Rider ones come with a Blue cover and are all stapled together.  They were later rereleased by Pandora's Treasures (I think but don't have this set) and then The Armory.  I have seen the Armory releases in pad form but not the Rider ones.  In any case, they are a Bob Liddil production.

 WWW  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 760
Joined: Dec 31, 2005
Last Visit: Feb 28, 2021
Location: Dallas, TX

Post Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:43 pm 
 

Are all 10 in the pad the Certificate of Survival?

Typically, these should be about 10 different certificates.


Sorry, after looking at it they are 10 separate certificates, not attached together in a pad. I don't have a cover .. but they don't have any staple marks either.

I have seen the Armory releases in pad form but not the Rider ones. In any case, they are a Bob Liddil production.


Are these, then, stand alone products... I.e. originally came shrinkwrapped as 10 pieces of paper? That seems rather strange.

Is there some greater purpose these serve... I mean can someone put into context when you'd actually use these in a campaign?

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 6067
Joined: May 03, 2003
Last Visit: Feb 08, 2021
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

Post Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:25 pm 
 

Your image doesn't seem to want to load right now but I think you certificate of Survival was yellow.  Mine is blue.  There is probably a chance that they were available as individual sheets (they are still available this way) and in a set of all of them called Masterscribes Kit.  These kits came in a ziplock bag so some may not have been stapled - the more recent releases are not stapled either.

My Rider Games Masterscribes kit contains a blue front and back cover sheet,  a sheet describing the product and certificates inside and some background info on why they were created.  There are 7 different certificate sheets and 1 character record sheet.

 WWW  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 760
Joined: Dec 31, 2005
Last Visit: Feb 28, 2021
Location: Dallas, TX

Post Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:48 pm 
 

Your image doesn't seem to want to load right now but I think you certificate of Survival was yellow.  Mine is blue.  There is probably a chance that they were available as individual sheets (they are still available this way) and in a set of all of them called Masterscribes Kit.  These kits came in a ziplock bag so some may not have been stapled - the more recent releases are not stapled either.


They're green.. but yeah, not blue. Are you suggesting then, that the 1978 copyright was not when it was printed.. Is there no way to gauge the age of the material?

My Rider Games Masterscribes kit contains a blue front and back cover sheet, a sheet describing the product and certificates inside and some background info on why they were created.


Excellent. Thank you.

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 6067
Joined: May 03, 2003
Last Visit: Feb 08, 2021
Location: Waterloo, Ontario, Canada

Post Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:50 pm 
 

No, I do think that it is vintage 1978.  But I think they were either purchased as individual sheets or were part of a Masterscribes Kit that wasn't stapled.

If you don't have the cover sheet or the background/contents sheet then I am guessing they were purchased as individual sheets.  

How many different sheets do you have?

 WWW  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6720
Joined: Jul 16, 2005
Last Visit: Feb 02, 2021

Post Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:56 pm 
 

Sea-to-sky-games wrote:Could someone help me identifying what game system, boxset, or accessory these were for?

http://www.geocities.com/tgabel/DSCN2927.JPG

I have a pad of 10 of them, for Rider Creations 1978. They are 8" x 9 1/2". The backs are green blank.


When I click the above link, this is what I get:

 This is a reported phishing website
http://www.geocities.com/tgabel/DSCN2927.JPG
 
  Internet Explorer has determined that this is a reported phishing website. Phishing websites impersonate other sites and attempt to trick you into revealing personal or financial information.
 We recommend that you close this webpage and do not continue to this website.  
    Click here to close this webpage.  

    Continue to this website (not recommended).  

 

    More information

Online phishing (pronounced fishing) is a way to trick you into revealing personal or financial information through an e-mail message or website. Phishing Filter is a feature in Internet Explorer that helps detect phishing or fraudulent websites.

For more information, see Phishing in Internet Explorer Help.

  Report that this is not a phishing website.


"But I have watched the dragons come, fire-eyed, across the world."

  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 760
Joined: Dec 31, 2005
Last Visit: Feb 28, 2021
Location: Dallas, TX

Post Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:20 pm 
 

No, I do think that it is vintage 1978.  But I think they were either purchased as individual sheets or were part of a Masterscribes Kit that wasn't stapled.


Cool. If you get a chance to snap a picture of what this looks like, I'd appreciate it. No rush, of course.

If you don't have the cover sheet or the background/contents sheet then I am guessing they were purchased as individual sheets.  

How many different sheets do you have?


I have 10 sheets, all looking precisely the same, as I've attempted to describe.

I appreciate the info, though. I wanted to make sure that if they were part of a boxset (or larger accessory) I'd try to track one down.

From what you've been telling me it seems these were sold together in a ziplock bag, separately, and in packs of 10, way back in the day.

I can't say that I'm not disappointed. I was sort of hoping they were part of a set more interesting than what I've got. If anyone here is seriously collecting this stuff I would definitely consider parting with them.

  


Long-Winded Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 3066
Joined: Jul 09, 2004
Last Visit: Apr 30, 2015

Post Posted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:54 pm 
 

MShipley88 wrote:Internet Explorer has determined that this is a reported phishing website.

This is a "feature" in IE7.  You can turn it off by clicking on the little whatever-the-heck-that is supposed to be to the left of the "Internet" Globe on the bottom right in the Status Bar.  I would if it's giving you trouble.

 YIM  


Active Collector

Posts: 10
Joined: Apr 16, 2007
Last Visit: Mar 17, 2008

Post Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:38 am 
 

Sea-to-sky-games wrote:Could someone help me identifying what game system, boxset, or accessory these were for?

http://www.geocities.com/tgabel/DSCN2927.JPG

I have a pad of 10 of them, for Rider Creations 1978. They are 8" x 9 1/2". The backs are green blank.


The original "Certificate Of Survival" was written at a convention in 1978 at U Wisconsin, Parkside when I was living in Ohio. I had just met Lou Zocchi at a con in Cincinnati and he told me about the Wisconsin con, so I drove up for it.

I was fascinated by Zocchi's ability to generate cash from what then amounted to pre-tabletop publishing and I decided that this was a thing I could do.

I went over to Postal Instant Press there in Parkside and composed the COS on an IBM Selectric, using a rub-on border design for the border, then had them print the product on Wassau Parch-text paper (which seems to have held up well.

The original 1978 run was 1000 loose certificates which cost me somewhere around $50 to print.

I sat on a couch near Zocchi's table at UWP and free-sold the certificates for $1.00 apiece as a novelty. In reality, the intention was for a gamemaster to have something he could "award" a player for completing a game without being killed.

Out of the original 1000, I sold about 400 or so to attendees at the con. it was a jaw dropping experience for me, a 31 year old nobody, barely a year into The Game. To earn that kind of dough from "words and paper" changed my life forever.

At the end of the con, I was flush with more cash than I had ever held at one time in my life, but surprises were not over yet.

Roy Lippman (the late magnificent game entrepreneural force behind The Armory) out of Baltimore, bought 300 of the certificates for his distributership @ $.50 each and Lou Zocchi, bought the rest. I kept the original to reproduce at home to sell at other cons.

That incident altered my existence. When I got home, Jack Powers, the gamer who brought me into gaming was agog at the tale.

It began a writing career that saw me learn the good and bad of home-publishing and eventually led to a SFFWA membership in the early 90's, fulfilling a lifelong dream.

The certificate(s) were designed to be FRP universal or generic as some would say.

TSR would sue you to the devel's realm if you advertised that your product was "for" D&D.

Hope that helps

Tan Certificate = 1 of 1000.

Bob Liddil
Pensacola Fl 2007


Long ago and far away, I published books...

  

User avatar

Verbose Collector

Posts: 1881
Joined: Mar 26, 2004
Last Visit: Mar 02, 2021
Location: UK

Post Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:00 pm 
 

Great post - this stuff is so cool and exactly what this site should be about.

(BTW - I'll pay double for that #1 sheet - tell me where to send my 2 bucks?!! :D )


You can never have too much of something you didn't need in the first place.

  


Prolific Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 468
Joined: Nov 25, 2006
Last Visit: Feb 28, 2021

Post Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:19 pm 
 

Thank you Bob for posting. Great story!!!!
Steve

 WWW  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 190
Joined: Dec 30, 2002
Last Visit: Apr 21, 2008

Post Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:57 am 
 

RiderFantasy wrote:The original "Certificate Of Survival" was written at a convention in 1978 at U Wisconsin, Parkside

Sounds like GenCon 11:

GenCon Time Line

GenCon Parkside



  


Active Collector

Posts: 82
Joined: Apr 25, 2004
Last Visit: May 21, 2020

Post Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:14 pm 
 

I just sold on ebay a set of the Armory Masterscribe kit still in its original ziplock.  I  just packed it up and sent it out yesterday.  The pages were a range of colors and were not stapled.




** expired eBay auction **

  


Long-Winded Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 3795
Joined: Feb 23, 2005
Last Visit: Feb 25, 2021

Post Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:22 pm 
 

Yet another sweet win for Lance!   :D


Let mirth prevail!

  


Active Collector

Posts: 10
Joined: Apr 16, 2007
Last Visit: Mar 17, 2008

Post Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:49 am 
 

dcas wrote:Sounds like GenCon 11:

GenCon Time Line

GenCon Parkside


I had forgotten that - but yes. It was.

In all the years since, I have never met nicer people than gamers.


Long ago and far away, I published books...

  

User avatar

Sage Collector

Posts: 2332
Joined: Feb 20, 2006
Last Visit: Aug 27, 2017
Location: Shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods

Post Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:40 pm 
 

I have a half-inch stack of certificates from Rider Productions.
  • Some certificates do not mention Rider Productions, but the typeface and style match the certificates that do.
  • Some certificates are obvious photocopies, but I do not know if they are original photocopies (i.e., legitimate items) made for sale or ordinary photocopies made after the sale.
  • The copyright dates are nonexistent, 1978, or 1979.
  • The paper is either photocopy paper or the parchment paper mentioned above.

Has any new information been unearthed in the past three years?  Geocities is gone, and Afterglow does not have these listed.

I do not want to ask RiderFantasy to search his memory for details on products that I have neither sorted nor scanned.

To aid with research, I will mail a cross-section of the certificates to those who express interest.  (US-only unless you wish to pay for some of the overseas shipping.)  This is not in the Classifieds because I want people to examine the certificates and post some conclusions or observations in this thread.  Some certificates are damaged, so don't expect them to be in NM condition.

  
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 1