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Post Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:35 am 
 

Badmike wrote: I have sold ten Star Wars 2nd Edition Revised Rulebooks the last few years, none for less than $35 (some for more), and not purchased at over $13.  For my purposes that's pretty solid; some might not agree though. I can add quite a few Star Wars d6 items to this list with similar profits....but you have to be patient enough to let it sit for awhile!


There's the other difference.  You sell things as BIN prices.  In an open auction how much do you think you would get for it?  BIN target an impulse buying who has to have it now.  The flip side of this is buyers like me who are willing to wait a few months and will buy an item for super cheap.  A "true value" probably lies somewhere in the middle - not the absolute top or bottom.  I don't think any of the pricing/valuations generated here include BIN auctions and there is a reason for it.  Generally, I think of a valuation as something that you could get for it today (not have to wait 6 months to a year to get).

Not to refute your sales but isn't $35 the cover price for the Star Wars 2nd Edition Revised (I don't have mine handy)?  Then after Ebay fees (BIN is 12%, Paypal another 2.9?) your at $30.

Also, simple question, if you ran an open auction starting at 99 cents for any of the items listed, how many do you think would get close to cover price?

Although this isn't the point of our discussion, its worth mentioning that as aforeign seller, there are many differences between us too.

1) The cover price on most books for me is 15-40% more than for you on older books even though the US dollar is worth LESS than the Canadian dollar these days.  So even if you sell a book for US cover, its 15-40% less than Canadian cover price.

2) I will never get the same exposure that you do because shipping is more expensive.

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Post Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:44 am 
 

NMilty wrote:As for ravenloft, I just sold Gazetteer Vol 5 for $60 two days ago.


I can stop off at my local game shop and buy 2 of these off the shelf for $30 each or order 1 online from a Canadian store for $26.08 + $4 shipping.

Not sure about the DMG, etc.  I haven't paid much attention to those.

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Post Posted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:34 am 
 

Mars wrote:
There's the other difference.  You sell things as BIN prices.  In an open auction how much do you think you would get for it?  BIN target an impulse buying who has to have it now.  The flip side of this is buyers like me who are willing to wait a few months and will buy an item for super cheap.  A "true value" probably lies somewhere in the middle - not the absolute top or bottom.  I don't think any of the pricing/valuations generated here include BIN auctions and there is a reason for it.  Generally, I think of a valuation as something that you could get for it today (not have to wait 6 months to a year to get).


I totally agree with that Mark, but since I have not sold anything at auction in over 5 years I wouldn't have a clue to auction prices....which usually favor the buyer and not the seller. Sure you have crazy outliers where something goes way over price due to two clueless bidders, but in my case I've found that occurs so seldom I have abandoned the auction except for very rare or unusual items.  Once Ebay introduced the concept of stores and BIN prices, the auction was killed except as a novelty.  Why would I wait a week, and a chance to lose an auction by a sniper, when this guy over here has the same item at a price I'm willing to pay and I can buy it NOW and have it in my hands before the first guy's auction has even ended? We are a nation, a culture, a world of impulse buyers, and the true bargain collector is a dying breed.

Auction prices IMO are less indicative of "true" prices for items, because auction prices occur in a compressed, artificial time period and aren't true "market" prices.  If I have sold 10 Star Wars 2nd edition revised rulebooks for $35 over the period of a few years that's enough information for me.  I understand that one in a week auction might sell for $10 but that just indicates to me someone got a great deal, and is not a reflection of it's true value.  Look, I buy stuff at auction because I can reprice and resell it for a profit....I wouldnt' do that if auction prices were the "real" price.


Not to refute your sales but isn't $35 the cover price for the Star Wars 2nd Edition Revised (I don't have mine handy)?  Then after Ebay fees (BIN is 12%, Paypal another 2.9?) your at $30.


No, they are $30....we were both off. I buy them half cover or less though. There are very few items I would buy at cover and expect to make a profit out of them, and I figure that into my calculations.

Also, simple question, if you ran an open auction starting at 99 cents for any of the items listed, how many do you think would get close to cover price?


Not many...but IMO that's a bad business model.  Maximum profit is NOT gained through a quick auction. There are too many factors.....is the weather bad that week, are the two people who really want the item not at their computer that week, is the one guy who could really afford to pay max price for that item low on cash that week, is the guy who really loves that genre out of town on vacation, etc.  Auctions, while a great mechanism to get an item out in a set amount of time, are a TERRIBLE mechanism for getting the true value out of an item (unless, of course, it's a rare or unusual item, and even then there are caveats)

Although this isn't the point of our discussion, its worth mentioning that as aforeign seller, there are many differences between us too.

1) The cover price on most books for me is 15-40% more than for you on older books even though the US dollar is worth LESS than the Canadian dollar these days.  So even if you sell a book for US cover, its 15-40% less than Canadian cover price.

2) I will never get the same exposure that you do because shipping is more expensive.


I agree on that. Shipping is the biggie because with free shipping supplies and flat rate shipping costs, US sellers will always have an advantage in that regard. And buying a lot of ebay to break up and sell will benefit you less because you have to pay more for it to reach you, cutting into profit.

Maybe we are just looking at this through two different sets of eyes...collector vs reseller.  When I look at buying something I look at it critically from the point of what kind of profit can I make. You also have to remember that there are a lot of people out there that will pay a premium for the convenience of buying something now and getting in a few days, and this is what drives a lot of ebay businesses.

Mike B.[/quote]


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Post Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:15 am 
 

Necromancer's d20 Caverns of Thracia in this lot:




** expired eBay auction **


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Post Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:17 pm 
 

At the risk of expanding my want list... *sigh*

What d20/3E/3.5E/4E/C&C/etc. material is good?  I'm not looking for this as collectible/investment, but rather to find the 10 or 20 (could there be more?) books that are truly well written and interesting, whether they're going for $5 or $200, and getting just those to add to my collection as useful sourcebooks/settings/adventures.

I've been paying much more attention to OSR material (I should really start a thread about those), so I know pretty much nothing about this niche.  I have the Zagyg/Yggsburgh material and the d20 Thieves World books, and I think that's all.

I scanned through this thread, but more often than not I saw "pretty good" or "not too bad" rather than rave reviews.  Gryphon's Legacy and Lost City Of Gaxmoor seemed to be the ones that got thumbs up a while back.  What else?


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Post Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:48 pm 
 

What d20/3E/3.5E/4E/C&C/etc. material is good? I'm not looking for this as collectible/investment, but rather to find the 10 or 20 (could there be more?) books that are truly well written and interesting, whether they're going for $5 or $200, and getting just those to add to my collection as useful sourcebooks/settings/adventures.


I jumped into 3.5+ a few years back after picking up some Goodman Games items at random; I happened to get in early when the modules were still money ("money" = good, not "money" = really expensive, though some of the rares are).  I've also gotten hard into Necromancer Games which I've found to be excellent, with a shout out for it's succesor (sorta) Frog God Games (Slumbering Tsar has been a load of fun so far and massively detailed).  

I will also mention that the Pathfinder Adventure Paths can be extremely good (the first one and the Curse of the Crimson Throne seem to be the high points, but I'm backlogged with reading for a year or so).  Some of the modules have been excellent.  There's a reason that it might surpass D&D for the next iteration - the rules are good but the quality of the supporting materials are superb.

If you're just trying for 'best of breed', the ENnie's gold/silver recommendations are pretty spot on.

http://www.ennie-awards.com/ennies/blog/

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Post Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 11:07 pm 
 

TheHistorian wrote:but rather to find the 10 or 20 (could there be more?) books that are truly well written and interesting, whether they're going for $5 or $200, and getting just those to add to my collection as useful sourcebooks/settings/adventures.

Fantasy materials that I find interesting and useful if not collectible or well-written:
    Adventures
    • Goodman Games' Dungeon Crawl Classics #29: The Adventure Begins is a hardback of twenty first-level adventures.
    • Goodman Games' Dungeon Crawl Classics #51: Castle Whiterock boxed set has been panned for various reasons . . . so use whatever portions you like.
    • AEG's World's Largest Dungeon has been panned for being a poorly-written mega-dungeon . . . so use it as a source for smaller dungeons.
    DM Tools
    • AEG's Toolbox is a softcover full of random tables.
    • AEG's Ultimate Toolbox is a softcover full of different random tables, but I have never owned it.
    • Black Blade's two Mythmere's Adventure Design Deskbook volumes deal with adventure writing and monsters, respectively.
    • Mongoose Publishing's Slayer's Guide series is poorly-edited and unevenly-written but provides a look into the society/world/ecology of different monsters.
    • WotC's three Dungeon Tiles Master Sets (Dungeon, Wilderness, and City) are useful if you play with miniatures.
    Magazines/Podcasts
    • Fight On! magazine from Ignatius Umlaut
    • Knockspell magazine from Mythmere
    • Roll for Initiative AD&D 1E podcast
    • Save or Die OD&D podcast

Ask me again tomorrow, and my opinion will change.  :)

  

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Post Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:30 pm 
 

TheHistorian wrote:At the risk of expanding my want list... *sigh*

What d20/3E/3.5E/4E/C&C/etc. material is good?  


Rappan Athuk Reloaded - best RPG product of the d20 era, IMHO
  - not that readily available (unless by .pdf) but you probably can find R1-R3 without difficulty and for a lot less $

Other Necromancer Games stuff - RAR was their best, but their other adventures/settings and Judges Guild remakes are also among the best d20.  Tomb of Abysthor is really good if you can get a hold of that.

Ptolus - another great product, with a good mix of very thorough detail and open endedness/areas to build upon for creative DMs.  Probably cost you $150-$200.

Paizo's Pathfinder Adventure Paths - I like these a lot.  My favorite was Rise of the Runelords, then Kingmaker.
Paizo's Pathfinder Modules - I find them a step down from the APs, but still good.
Paizo's other Pathfinder stuff - The setting material is pretty good, I like the "Classic" ecology series ("Classic Monsters Revisited," etc.).  As a whole, the setting suffers by trying to shoehorn a lot of different fantasy cultures into the same world (similar to Forgotten Realms), but piecemeal, the elements are well done.

I really like the magazine from Wolfgang Baur "Kobold Quarterly," and all of his Zobeck/Open Design material.  They are patron projects, but the more recent projects have been made available to the public and I think the Zobeck setting is really cool.

  

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Post Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:56 pm 
 

Thinking of Paizo and Open Design (Kobold Quarterly et al) as post-D20 publishers, and so leaving them out....

That would leave the following D20 companies standing on top:

1) Necromancer Games (and Frog God Games as its successor)

2) Goodman Games (Dungeon Crawl Classics line)

3)  Green Ronin (Mythic Vistas, Races of Renown)

4)  Alderac Entertainment Group AEG

5)  Troll Lord Games (fifth place for a reason)


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Last edited by FormCritic on Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  

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Post Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 4:23 pm 
 

I'd add Privateer Press's Iron Kingdoms to the list of excellent d20 products.  The setting though is not straight fantasy so it may not be your thing, but includes elements of "steam punk".  The material is very well written though.

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Post Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:13 pm 
 

I agree with the above...

1) Necromancer - well written, well laid out, good maps, clever plots & ideas

2) Iron Kingdoms - just my opinion, but I like the setting & characters, I find the production to be really well done

3) Goodman Games Dungeon Crawl Classics- lots of material, all are pretty useful (more or less), I like the old-school themes

4) Troll Lord Games - especially the CZ setting :)

5) honourable mention to Paizo, the Pathfinder AP books especially are just *beautiful*


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Post Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 6:55 pm 
 

Okay, but is it really as across the board as that?  Are you really recommending ALL Necromancer, AEG, DCCs, etc?

Not impossible, of course, just a little hard to believe.  ;)


Areas of interest/knowledge: Harn, Pendragon, WFRP, Ars Magica, anything BRP based, CoC, Runequest

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Post Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 7:01 pm 
 

TheHistorian wrote:Okay, but is it really as across the board as that?  Are you really recommending ALL Necromancer, AEG, DCCs, etc?


Are you really only going to buy 1 or 2 from the line ;)

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Post Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 7:06 pm 
 

Mars wrote:
Are you really only going to buy 1 or 2 from the line ;)


Well, I already have fifty times as much material as I could ever use, so...

YES!


Mark is a bad influence...


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Post Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 7:56 pm 
 

TheHistorian wrote:Okay, but is it really as across the board as that?  Are you really recommending ALL Necromancer, AEG, DCCs, etc?

Not impossible, of course, just a little hard to believe.  ;)


So far all the Necromancer stuff has been good to great.

The DCC line pre-4e is like TSR 1e releases, some great, some good, some ehhh...

Iron Kingdoms is high production value and I've heard great things, but it is steam and gunpowder stuff.

Pathfinder is very slick and I hear great things but their Kingmaker series was disappointing after the 1st in the series, which I felt was very good.

I've heard good things about Black Sails over Freeport but haven't read through it yet.

Ptolus I recommend (and thanks for snagging me a copy).

If you are interested in DMing or world building I'd snap up the Gygax series of world/cosmo builder stuff while they are still cheap.

I'm not a big fan of the Green Ronin Mythic Vistas series except for the Egyptian Adventures Hamunaptra boxed set.

I also like what I have scanned through from the first book of the Drow War series from Mongoose.

And from Mongoose the items done by Gygax are worth getting from their slayer line.

And speaking of Gygax you should grab the Hall of Many Panes boxed set while it is also cheap.

I did find collecting the Necromancer and DCC lines highly addictive.


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Post Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:53 am 
 

Would specifically recommend:

Rappan Athuk....either the very expensive and hard to find boxed set, or the three separate booklets.  It was a 1E crawl before they converted it to 3E and it shows.  One of the most old school products published by a 2E publisher.

The Gryphon's Legacy by Wolfgang Baur....one of the best low level adventures I've ever read, this was supposed to be the first adventure in an entire line (which petered out and was never published).  You can find it cheap and it's definitely worth picking up.

Lost City of Gaxmoor....fun stuff, you can see a lot of EGG in this adventure that his kids wrote.

Castle Zagyg items...hard to find but worth it.

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Post Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:24 pm 
 

If you scroll up this thread I believe you will find a review of Lost City of Gaxmoor that I wrote.

It is easily the best D20 product from Troll Lord Games (others from that publisher are of lower quality...old school, but lower quality).

Lost City of Gaxmoor is a great example of the power and flexibility of the 3rd Edition rules.  You get a very nice ruined city map, a good setting and tons of stuff to kill.  

Add to this the plus that Lost City of Gaxmoor is often available for well under $10 on Ebay.  I have a couple copies just because I couldn't let one get away for...like...99 cents.


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Post Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:32 pm 
 

Tome of Horrors I, from Necromancer Games, is the most old school of all the old school D20 products.

It has high quality art and writing, with all the best advantages of the 3rd Edition rules set.

It has a number of new monsters but...really cool...it has most of the AD&D monsters that WOTC had no intention of converting to 3rd Edition, including a number of silly/sad/awesome beasties from the original Fiend Folio.

Tome of Horrors I is a nice artifact from the early D20 era, when Bill Webb and Clarke Peterson were showing what the Open Gaming License could really mean for third-party publishers...with gamers as the big winners.

Tome of Horrors I was written for 3.0.  It is available in pdf for 3.5.  Anyone who runs a 3.5 game should pick up both the hardback and the pdf.  

Tome of Horrors II and III are written for the 3.5 rules.  As a set, they make a cool part of any D20 collection.


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Post Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:04 pm 
 

If you're discussing d20 products to own for actual gaming reasons, I think that is entirely different than owning them for their supposed monetary value.

For example, Monsternomicon is a cool book for a gamer. Valueless to a reseller. I also even like the Book of Templates though I actually have grown to dislike the concept of templates (primarily because they were overused, like prestige classes.) There are a few setting resources like Hamunaptra or Testament that are worthwhile to use for inspiration (if one is bent that way) but do not really sell well -- I bought mine for $3.


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Post Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:54 pm 
 

serleran wrote:If you're discussing d20 products to own for actual gaming reasons, I think that is entirely different than owning them for their supposed monetary value.

For example, Monsternomicon is a cool book for a gamer. Valueless to a reseller. I also even like the Book of Templates though I actually have grown to dislike the concept of templates (primarily because they were overused, like prestige classes.) There are a few setting resources like Hamunaptra or Testament that are worthwhile to use for inspiration (if one is bent that way) but do not really sell well -- I bought mine for $3.


Hamunaptra and Testament have both been available for a while on Paizo.com in the Green Ronin Apocalypse Sale for $5.


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