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Post Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:15 pm 
 

FormCritic wrote:
Thanks for the heads up.  It looks very interesting...kind of like Rob Kuntz' project.


Yeh, except for the absolutely ludricrous "explanations" why the "patrons" won't let the material be widely distributed are disturbing, to say the least.

If you want a copy of an early work then too bad. You should have gotten in on the ground floor. You will just have to wait until someone sells their patronage for that project to you with all the appellate rights of ownership that has. Until then they have the pride of being able to say-this is mine, at least in part. I helped. And I paid for it.


....Except no one ASKED me to get in on the ground floor.  I'm pretty well plugged into the gaming/RPG world, yet never heard of this project until now.  And I'm being told tough shit, you are NEVER going to have a copy, well, because we don't want you to. That's great, but dude, don't EVER expect me to donate any money to further vanity projects of yours under any circumstances.  Jeez.  8O  

I continue to support and purchase Rob Kuntz's material both because I like to support the direct sales model, and they are quality projects.  Then again, there is no super-secret "cabal" that is attempting to make the material so exclusive it can't be owned by anyone except game designers or their friends!


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Post Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:26 pm 
 

Repeat


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Last edited by Badmike on Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 9:27 pm 
 

Plaag wrote:Those who liked Rappan Athuk Box Set may want to think about picking up the City of Brass Box Set from Necromancer Games.

ShaneG.


Yeah man, definetly going to pick this up.    8)

Correct me if I am wrong but some guys have already posted on the NG forums that they picked it up at Origins?  When is it actually coming out in stores?

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Post Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 9:53 pm 
 

frankfromgermany wrote:Do you guys know about Wolfgang Baur´s  Open Design?  Basically he is writing D20 projects on comission. The first adventure "Castle Shadowcrag" is limited to 200 issues ...
Links:
http://www.wolfgangbaur.com/
http://customadventure.livejournal.com/

P.S.: He´s publishing a game zine too: Kobold Quarterly


That whole patronage cabal business is just bizarre ...let's pay this guy to write adventures for us, but no one outside our little group will ever see them.  Kind of like someone comissioning  Erol Otus to do an original painting, but oh by the way I am going to cover it up in my livingroom and prevent you other guys from seeing it! Ever! Sorry you didn't go in on the work. The emoticon with the rolling eyes just doesn't do it ... how do make (type) the sound of somone taking a long deep drag from a dubee?

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Post Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:16 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:
BTW, it's impossible to purchase Castle Shadowcrag in any format at this point since it's a close project....sorry!  :(


Not true. Any member of the current project can get a copy.

Also, I believe the last day of June was the last day to sign up for Kobold Quarterly......


Also not true. You can subscribe any time. Sorry for any confusion.

Wolfgang

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Post Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:17 pm 
 

islestrike wrote:
That whole patronage cabal business is just bizarre ...let's pay this guy to write adventures for us, but no one outside our little group will ever see them.  Kind of like someone comissioning  Erol Otus to do an original painting, but oh by the way I am going to cover it up in my livingroom and prevent you other guys from seeing it! Ever! Sorry you didn't go in on the work. The emoticon with the rolling eyes just doesn't do it ... how do make (type) the sound of somone taking a long deep drag from a dubee?


It's just a limited edition. What's so weird about that?

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Post Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:44 pm 
 

islestrike wrote:Kind of like someone comissioning  Erol Otus to do an original painting, but oh by the way I am going to cover it up in my livingroom and prevent you other guys from seeing it! Ever!

Cheers!


Erol Otus is doing just that.  There is at least one member of this forum that has a commissioned piece by Otus and it is unique....no one else has one.  Dumbass still hasnt gotten it framed though.  :P

There is nothing wrong with doing a limited edition adventure and having people pay money to fund it.  Rob Kuntz has done that with Cairn of the Skeleton King, Tower of Blood, and Bottle City.  A little different than with Castle Shadowcrag but still basically the same idea.

By the way Mike, where did this quote come from?

If you want a copy of an early work then too bad. You should have gotten in on the ground floor. You will just have to wait until someone sells their patronage for that project to you with all the appellate rights of ownership that has. Until then they have the pride of being able to say-this is mine, at least in part. I helped. And I paid for it.


:?


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Post Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 11:06 pm 
 

islestrike wrote:
 Kind of like someone comissioning  Erol Otus to do an original painting, but oh by the way I am going to cover it up in my livingroom and prevent you other guys from seeing it! Ever!

Cheers!


Erol Otus is doing just that.  There is at least one member of this forum that has a commissioned piece by Otus and it is unique....no one else has one.  Dumbass still hasnt gotten it framed though.  


Hey, that's a ROSLOF print.  Get your classic 1st edition artists straight!

There is nothing wrong with doing a limited edition adventure and having people pay money to fund it.  Rob Kuntz has done that with Cairn of the Skeleton King, Tower of Blood, and Bottle City.  A little different than with Castle Shadowcrag but still basically the same idea.


I'm just pissed I didn't know about it sooner, and the deadlines seem to have passed for several of the projects.


By the way Mike, where did this quote come from?

 Quote:
 If you want a copy of an early work then too bad. You should have gotten in on the ground floor. You will just have to wait until someone sells their patronage for that project to you with all the appellate rights of ownership that has. Until then they have the pride of being able to say-this is mine, at least in part. I helped. And I paid for it.


One of the patrons for Baur's first project....he posted this in a blog explaining why he voted against past projects ever becoming available to the public.  To be fair to Baur, I found a later posting where he disagreed with the thoughts presented here, but honoring his "patrons" wishes, he went ahead and said he would abide by the sentiment.  So instead of Baur, I guess I should have instead been angry at the patrons that would deny me getting a look at the already published stuff.... :oops:

I want to go on record that I love Baur's stuff.  I think Kingdom of the Ghouls is one of the best 2nd edition adventures ever, if not the best.  Based on his post above by Baur, I'm going to put my money where my mouth is and sign up for the newest project, which seems to be something called Empire of the Ghouls, perhaps a re-take on the original Dungeon magazine Ghoul module, and see how it goes since Baur states any current member can get a copy and sign up anytime.   From what Baur says and what is written on his site, I'm going to assume the "cutoff dates" are not written-in-stone official, and take a chance here that I can still get a copy

I do enjoy supporting self publishing, as I have done with Kuntz stuff, OSRIC, and other venues like Dragonsfoot. I don't enjoy being shutout of self publishing efforts I had no idea were even being offered.  I feel sorry for the guy in, say, two years who just discovers Open Design and is REALLY pissed he's not going to be able to ever see any of the last three years worth of goodies.... :cry:

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Post Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 11:14 pm 
 

Hey, that's a ROSLOF print.  Get your classic 1st edition artists straight!


Duh, I knew that.  :oops:

I want to go on record that I love Baur's stuff.


Same here.

I feel sorry for the guy in, say, two years who just discovers Open Design and is REALLY pissed he's not going to be able to ever see any of the last three years worth of goodies....


Isn't that what .pdf's are for?

Just kidding... PDT_Armataz_01_18


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Post Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 11:19 pm 
 

WolfgangBaur wrote:
Also not true. You can subscribe any time. Sorry for any confusion.

Wolfgang


Sorry for the confusion on MY part...re-reading the site, it appears the mistake was mine.  I misunderstood the availaiblity was still open to members who signed on to present/future projects.  That's what I get for reading it after swilling down frosty drinks one after another at Doug's margarita machine this afternoon...

Here's a plug for this project of Baur's to hopefully make up for the misunderstanding...sounds cool:


Castle Shadowcrag
The family Stross ruled the city-state of Zobeck for nearly 600 years, marrying well, fighting off invasion, and holding off a terrible curse. Then their castle was sacked in a peasant revolt, the family was hanged, and their name was erased from the histories.
All but one.
The survivor, a young boy, sold his soul to shadow creatures that haunted the castle, fey and flickering things never seen directly. The creatures always promised power and glory to those who would only listen, and the boy heard, listened, and obeyed the dark shadow fey.
When the heroes visit the castle, they step into the dangerous burden of that past. The castle teeters on the edge of the Shadow plane, and things quickly go wrong. The heroes slip through shadow into various reflections of the castle's dark past - and they can set things right.
This 96-page Gothic adventure is for 10th and 11th level characters.
Availability: This project is closed and not available to the public, but it is available to patrons of the current Open Design project. To join Open Design, please donate today.


This looks like the PRESENT project...sounds ever cooler....

The Empire of the Ghouls
Deep below the earth, in caverns lightless and unknown to man, live our nightmares: the spidery drow, the wild alien mind shredders and intellect devourers, the insatiable ghouls in their cities and empires.
This Open Design project is all about creating an advanced, detailed underdark society of civilized ghouls. This includes some description of their gods, slaves, templates, new monsters, and unique magic, and then setting up all those elements within a multi-level adventure for roughly 9th to 12th level. The final result will be a 128-page adventure unlike any other, with lethal and new challenges for any experienced party.
It's up to you to decide what you'd like to query, though I'd ask that you not query more than one or two articles at a time. As the Open Design 'zine, anything sword & sorcery, tabletop RPG, and D&D-related will get a hearing.

Fully-mapped ghoul empire and underdark cities
More than 50 playtested encounters, many with tactical maps
A ghoul prestige class, the Imperial Hunter
An interview with Paizo Publisher Erik Mona
Ghoul magic and items unique to the Imperium
And 7 new deadly monsters!
Join today as a patron or a patron of the arts, and help support Open Design!


And here's what appears to be a future project of Baur...part of the Paizo Pathfinder series (Part #4) that will begin in August and is a continuation of their acclaimed Adventure Path series. I'm not too keen on purchasing only ONE part of an adventure, at $20 a pop, but damn it sounds so cool I may have to...Wolfgang does mention the "magic words" in the description (Giants Style):

Pathfinder: Fortress of the Stone Giants
My first Pathfinder manuscript is a 40,000-word adventure that builds a modern D&D adventure out of the Giants style, like Steading of the Hill Giant Chief or Halls of the Fire Giant King. This is part of the Rise of the Runelords adventure path, and it's gone off to the editor. I am writing two articles for Pathfinder as well, one ecological, one historical.

A sudden assault on the town of Sandpoint by stone giants and a dragon brings the looming threat home. After the giants are defeated, the heroes learn that they were but a scouting party - that the stone giants are massing for war. The only way to disrupt their advance is to strike at the Jorgenfist, the fortress of Warlord Mokmurian, the sinister giant responsible for gathering his people for war. What secrets wait to be discovered in the dungeons below the Jorgenfist, and what is the true reason the giants have rallied for war? This installment of Pathfinder also includes additional rules and information on the stone giant race, a detailed description of the goddess of valor and her faithful crusaders, and several new monsters native to the rugged badlands of the stone giant realm.


I hope that the stuff lives up to the hype...I guess I'll review it when I get it sometime in the future...

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 11:28 pm 
 

The levels of membership are below...the suggested donations are $30, $75 and $100 for each level:

$30:
The complete adventure, professionally laid out as a PDF and as a paper POD book.
Access to six months of rubber-meets-the-road design discussion
Q&A, and design essays on topics chosen by the patrons


$75
All the standard privileges listed above
Acknowledgment in the credits
Ability to suggest design essay topics
Direct access to the project manuscript and to design Q&A sessions
Review sketches, art, maps, handouts, and other graphic elements


$100
All the standard & $75 donation privileges listed above
A private game in Seattle
An in-person or online chat about your own adventures or game designs
A prominent listing in the project dedication and credits
Suggest a concept for an upcoming project: your pitch may become the next Open Design!


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Post Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 12:05 am 
 

I found the Empire of the Ghouls concept to be quite intriguing.  I am thinking about sponsoring it.  $30 per publication is even steeper than the $20 of Pied Piper Publishing...so...have to think more about it.  

I wonder when the cutoff deadline is?   :(

The whole thing is very interesting.


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Post Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 12:26 am 
 

WolfgangBaur wrote:
It's just a limited edition. What's so weird about that?


Nothing is weird about it if that's what it is.  Maybe I am the one one who misinterpreted what's on your site.  But it does say under Shadowcrag that the "project is closed and not available to the public".  Under Steam and Brass it says "not available to the public in any form..."  Also under Steam and Brass it seems to suggest that you don't have any control over the work, but rather you are bound by what the original "patrons" want to do with it.  That is weird if the adventure is a really good one and you could bring it to a larger audience instead of writing it for a few "patrons".

Anyways ...sorry if I got it wrong.   :oops:   But I wasn't the only one.  Maybe look at what it says on the website and look at it from the view of the casual 1st time visitor.

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Post Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 12:37 am 
 

Kingofpain89 wrote:
Erol Otus is doing just that.  There is at least one member of this forum that has a commissioned piece by Otus and it is unique....no one else has one.  Dumbass still hasnt gotten it framed though.



Gotcha!

I just meant you wouldn't comission a fine orgininal piece from Otus and then refuse to show it to people because they didn't get in on the ground floor when you comissioned the work, which it what I read into the wording on Wolfgang's site.

Anyways not important as it seems my interpretation is wrong, so appologies to Wolfgang.

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Post Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 12:44 am 
 

islestrike wrote:
Nothing is weird about it if that's what it is.  Maybe I am the one one who misinterpreted what's on your site.  But it does say under Shadowcrag that the "project is closed and not available to the public".  Under Steam and Brass it says "not available to the public in any form..."  Also under Steam and Brass it seems to suggest that you don't have any control over the work, but rather you are bound by what the original "patrons" want to do with it.  That is weird if the adventure is a really good one and you could bring it to a larger audience instead of writing it for a few "patrons".

Anyways ...sorry if I got it wrong.   :oops:   But I wasn't the only one.  Maybe look at what it says on the website and look at it from the view of the casual 1st time visitor.

Best Regards


I was confused also Islestrike, you have to poke around a bit on the website to find out the cutoff dates apparantly aren't writ in stone...basically, when Wolfgang decides the cutoff dates should trigger I guess, and even then some past projects could be available (although the first one, Steam and Brass, does look "officially" closed for good).  

I went ahead and took the plunge with the $30 membership...kind of steep, but as I said I do like to support this sort of publishing.  Plus, Kingdom of the Ghouls was badass...if Empire of the Ghouls is more in depth, sweet......
I got a welcome and a sign up link for livejournal.com so I could get info about the project.  Unfortunately Livejournal seems to be down tonight or having problems, I got about halfway registered and it went blaloohey.  I'll try again tomorrow or re-register.  Anyway sounds cool is you have an extra $30.
  Dang I really like the look of the Paizo Pathfinder stuff, but $20 a chapter?  The finished project would be $120, but incredibly massive (say 600 pages with maps?).  I guess I'm just cheap, I don't know. Anyway, I still might be interested enough in a Stone Giant fortress written by Baur to pony up for that one chapter...

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Post Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:37 am 
 

I have been a big fan of Wolfgang's work ever since reading his kingdom of the ghouls adventure in Dungeon Magazine #70. There are a few things that puzzle me though since this topic has been brought up.

1.Why has he decided to post here on this forum now, with few words and no introduction? (Dont get me wrong, Im excited and intrigued)

2. His website is a lil bare, vague and confusing about the products and sponsorship: Is the format available only through PDF? or is there going to be a physical printing of the work?

3.Rob Kuntz has had a great response and sponsorship of his independant physical publication of modules (I believe as a direct result of the acaeum website and forum) I have sponsored 2 of his projects and have been very happy with the product and overall quality with the minor exception as to the shipping procedures.

Thes are just my humble opinions and observations..

  

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Post Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:24 am 
 

Afrika Corps wrote:I have been a big fan of Wolfgang's work ever since reading his kingdom of the ghouls adventure in Dungeon Magazine #70. There are a few things that puzzle me though since this topic has been brought up.

1.Why has he decided to post here on this forum now, with few words and no introduction? (Dont get me wrong, Im excited and intrigued)

2. His website is a lil bare, vague and confusing about the products and sponsorship: Is the format available only through PDF? or is there going to be a physical printing of the work?

3.Rob Kuntz has had a great response and sponsorship of his independant physical publication of modules (I believe as a direct result of the acaeum website and forum) I have sponsored 2 of his projects and have been very happy with the product and overall quality with the minor exception as to the shipping procedures.

Thes are just my humble opinions and observations..


I have a feeling someone may have alerted Wolfgang once we started ripping him...it's happened before (with Titan games, for example), it seems a lot of Acaeum members are pretty plugged in....

The site is a little confusing and contradictory, but once I signed up and started getting the update, it began to make a little more sense.  It seems the Open Deisgin is pretty much a collaborative project between Baur and his sponsors. It's quite unique. Ignore a lot of the cutoff date stuff, and sign up if you want the magazine or the Empire of the Ghouls products.

I'm not a great fan of 3rd edition, but I'm a fan of well written and interesting adventures/campaign ideas.The process being used by Baur is very interesting, and is fascinating to read. Apparantly, Wolfgang throws out a few ideas.....they get voted on by the patrons, then every step of the process is debated as ideas are tossed out to be taken or discarded. Anyone who contributes can comment on all aspects of the project as it trundles along. What's cool, if you actually come up with a bit of gold, Wolfgang may incorporate it into the adventure.

I would recommend if you are at all interested in the professional process of putting together an adventure from concept to finished product, you subscribe to the Open Design process.  Be forewarned, since the adventure is for 3rd ed, there is a LOT of 3rd edition jargon, with people discussing templates, feats, spells, etc in 3rd edition terms.  That's not the cup of tea for a lot of people who call themselves Acaeum members (obviously). But if you can get past that, or if you really aren't that opposed to 3rd edition, you can find a lot to interest you.  The playtest sections are quite interesting, because I've never been part of any type of playtesting groups, seeing the process there is cool.

I find myself quite interested in the product because I enjoy large underdark type campaigns, no matter what the edition. I think I would be far less interested in contibuting to a project concerning a setting (there are so many settings for 3rd ed already, most of which I'm really not interested in) or one that was much more 3rd edtiion specific.  Probably like the majority of patrons, I will find myself lurking and just watching the process wend it's way along.  Highly recommended.

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:59 pm 
 

Afrika Corps wrote:1.Why has he decided to post here on this forum now, with few words and no introduction? (Dont get me wrong, Im excited and intrigued)


My apologies for the lack of intro. I'm a writer and editor who started at TSR in 1991 and is still freelancing lo these 16 years later. My work has been for Paizo, WotC, Chaosium, and my own imprint, Open Design.

My collecting interests are largely CoC and EPT, but I admit to an irrational fondness for bestiaries of all stripes. If you've got one to recommend, I'm all ears.
2. His website is a lil bare, vague and confusing about the products and sponsorship: Is the format available only through PDF? or is there going to be a physical printing of the work?

I apologize for the site's deficiencies. I'm revising it over time, but most of my effort goes into producing new work. Still, to answer your questions:

There was no physical printing of the first, Steam & Brass.

There is a POD of the second, Castle Shadowcrag. Small run, limited to the patrons of CS and EofG. If it actually *wins* the ENnie award it has been nominated for, I may attempt a larger printing. But that's something that I'll talk about with the project's sponsors if that unlikely event should come to pass.

There will be either a POD or a regular printing of the third, Empire of the Ghouls. Likewise, that printing will be limited, just enough to fulfill orders of the project patrons plus some charter subscribers of Kobold Quarterly.

There is a regular paper printing of Kobold Quarterly. The print run is tiny, as befits a magazine of its name. And dare I say it, highly collectable. :D
3.Rob Kuntz has had a great response and sponsorship of his independant physical publication of modules (I believe as a direct result of the acaeum website and forum) I have sponsored 2 of his projects and have been very happy with the product and overall quality with the minor exception as to the shipping procedures.

I think Rob does amazing work. I'm only disappointed that his Castle Greyhawk material won't see print with Paizo (per Erik Mona's recent interview in KQ).
Badmike wrote:I have a feeling someone may have alerted Wolfgang once we started ripping him...it's happened before (with Titan games, for example), it seems a lot of Acaeum members are pretty plugged in....

I've actually visited here a couple of times, as both my NYC publishing friends and some of the WotC novelists lurk here.

However, you are indeed a connected community, and I was tipped off. Now that I'm here and (finally!) registered, I figured I'd poke my head in sometimes.

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Post Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:18 pm 
 

Excellent - another game professional lamb to the slaughter!! :D

(J/K - look here for Mr Baur's writing credits - some excellent stuff here, and magazine articles as well, a talented chap indeed)(Doom of Daggerdale is one of my favourite FR scenarios - others may be more interested in the Planescape stuff)


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Post Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:30 pm 
 

WolfgangBaur wrote:I've actually visited here a couple of times, as both my NYC publishing friends and some of the WotC novelists lurk here.

However, you are indeed a connected community, and I was tipped off. Now that I'm here and (finally!) registered, I figured I'd poke my head in sometimes.


I have to say after initial misgivings, I really like the Empire of the Ghouls project, and signed up once it became apparant that the ranks were NOT closed as initially indicated. The "insider info" I've gotten as a patron is quite fascinating...sort of like watching a book or movie getting made from the ground up...

I would advise any aspiring RPG material writers to subsribe to the current project...quite interesting!  

Mike B.


"THE MORE YOU THINK ABOUT WHY i DONE WHAT i DONE THE MORE i LAUGH" Cougar
"The Acaeum hates fun" Sir Allen
"I had a collecting emergency" Nogrod
Co-founder of the North Texas RPG Con
http://www.ntrpgcon.com

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