D20 Collecting
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Post Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:11 pm 
 

One issue would be to establish exactly when AD&D began.

Oddly, the first AD&D hardback was the Monster Manual, followed by the Player's Handbook and at some distance by the Dungeon Master's Guide.

Don't ask me why the Monster Manual was first.  No idea here.

Does AD&D begin with the publication of the first book?  With the publication of all three books?  With the publication of the most useful book (the Player's Handbook)?  Or, does it begin when Gary Gygax first announced the need for a new, definitive version of D&D?

To my mind, 2nd Edition begins when it was announced in 1985...a year chosen because that is the year I remember it first, rather than based on research.

Also, classification does not have to be by metals (Gold, Silver, Bronze, Giglo Carbonite).

I might classify them as:

1)  The Brown Age...also known as the Booklet Age, or the Box Age.
2)  The Trampier Age...possibly also known as the Green Age.
3)  The Orange Age...Age of the Dragonlance.
4)  The Second Coming...Age of the Four Boxes...Basic D&Do-It-Over.
5)  The Silly Hat Age...Barbie Magic Kingdom Age...Age of The Splatbooks.
6)  The Shallows of POG.
7)  The Third Age...Age of the Floppers...The Age of WOTC.
8 )  The New Coke Doldrums...Age of Gleemax...Age of Super Mario...Age of Warcraft.

Whether or not you know the metaphors tells us if you lived through that time...or have at least collected it.

I believe I have been reading too much Umberto Eco.... :x


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 5:11 am 
 

Zenfinite wrote:I'll go out on a limb here and crown myself one of the resident 4th Edition experts. :) Actually, Alexander, they released the organized play (called Delve Night) in 2008


Well, I'm not a 4th edtion expert, but I beg to differ. D&D Encounters is not Dungeon Delve: they are both OP programs for D&D, but diffrent ones and I was talking about D&D Encounters only (I own and manage a store so I'm pretty well informed, enough to poke the Italian distributors and asking them info before they release news to their custromers  8) ).

  


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:44 am 
 

Alexander1968 wrote:
Well, I'm not a 4th edtion expert, but I beg to differ. D&D Encounters is not Dungeon Delve: they are both OP programs for D&D, but diffrent ones and I was talking about D&D Encounters only (I own and manage a store so I'm pretty well informed, enough to poke the Italian distributors and asking them info before they release news to their custromers  8) ).


I know they are not exactly the same, but, they both served the same purpose; that of organized D&D play in shops to boost the product name. I knew what you were talking about, I just wanted to point out the existence of Dungeon Delve and its rarity as well. I think they took a big step forward with the Encounters; the quality of the module and such is extremely high, and it was a blast playing it. And hey, if you can get any of the older Delve Night stuff, let me know, I'm still looking to complete my run. ;)

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Post Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 1:23 pm 
 

Zenfinite wrote:And hey, if you can get any of the older Delve Night stuff, let me know, I'm still looking to complete my run. ;)


Is there a listing of what these items are?  I had been picking up the Game Day modules and product release modules, etc over the last few years but never kept up to date.

From what I gather, there are currently only "2 D&D Encounters" modules out there?

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Post Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:51 am 
 

http://completed.shop.ebay.com/jack-sny ... op=3&_sc=1



http://completed.shop.ebay.com/harleyki ... 283&_rdc=1



Two interesting sets of d20 auctions there. Most of the Necromancer modules went for a lot lower than I expected! (Abysthor for $7?!?)

  


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 12:39 pm 
 

frankfromgermany wrote:Two interesting sets of d20 auctions there. Most of the Necromancer modules went for a lot lower than I expected! (Abysthor for $7?!?)

Well, without taking into account other factors (like the seller's feedback score, which was discussed in another thread), I think this serves to show how overpriced this module is usually listed for BIN ($50-70? Really?  :? )


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:02 pm 
 

Dimitri Mazieres wrote:Well, without taking into account other factors (like the seller's feedback score, which was discussed in another thread), I think this serves to show how overpriced this module is usually listed for BIN ($50-70? Really?  :? )


$30 to $40 in my experience selling, but hard to say what it will be this summer. The economy is really, really bad and that is effecting prices without a doubt. In general though Necromancer items are fairly popular. though nowhere near the bin prices that are coming from Necromancer games. There may be a number of extremely good buys for all games and rpgs this summer unless the economy picks up.

  


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:02 pm 
 

But what about  the others, those NG modules that sold for $1 -$4 ? I would have gladly picked them all up for that if he had sold international.

  

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Post Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:05 pm 
 

frankfromgermany wrote:But what about  the others, those NG modules that sold for $1 -$4 ?


I missed bidding on a few myself, but those prices were lowest I've seen for the most part. Crystal Skull is a big book (hardcover I think) and I did miss that one. Two other good books I missed earlier on. That wilderlands boxed set went for a song. Cant believe thracia went for over $20

  


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:21 pm 
 

just a laymans view on the D20 items, but the arse does seem to have fallen out of the market recently, with almost any D20 items being cheaper than normally expected on this thread it seems.

Not sure if thats a trend, a flooded market, economy, or a lack of interest??


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:29 pm 
 

Part of the "cheaper than normally expected" phenomenon is that sellers have expected prices that are two to three times too high.  A drop in price over the short term was inevitable.

The other recent drop in Necromancer prices was caused by a seller who listed almost the entire catalog at the same time and then did not accept international bidders.


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:07 pm 
 

In my experience markets tend to fluctuate, and they fluctuate not just because of the current econmic times, but seasonally due to people saving for convention trips or holidays etc, and due to lack of interest or items being out of flavour at a particular time. Discussion of a particular range, line or item on Acaeum or over on DF can push up interest and price of items, and the resulting flood of people noticing the up surge selling their copies pushes the items's price back down again.

If you're sitting on d20 stock, particulary the well chosen or well written stock, sit on it because it's 'core value' will not depreciate even if the current market has no interest in buying your goods.

If you have money to invest then buy, because the good d20 is going cheap and this is a good time to stock up and sit on stuff for reselling in the future.

Trading on your d20, as with all your other collectables, is a patient waiting game. Play it slowly and you can make money and/or not be disappointed. If you have to sell stuff in a hurry, you have to accept that you're at the mercy of the market economy.


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 4:26 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:Discussion of a particular range, line or item on Acaeum or over on DF can push up interest and price of items, and the resulting flood of people noticing the up surge selling their copies pushes the items's price back down again.


That's why I always count on the fourth listing.


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:10 pm 
 

FormCritic wrote:Part of the "cheaper than normally expected" phenomenon is that sellers have expected prices that are two to three times too high.  A drop in price over the short term was inevitable.

From my limited point of view, I think this is what's happening. BIN prices (whether on eBay or Amazon) for most of the "popular" d20 products right now are simply ridiculous. And those who aren't, well, they don't last long ;)
For example, the PHB 3.5 usually sells for $20-30 in eBay's auctions, but for some reason some people think that someone will pay over $40 for a used PHB...  :?


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:27 pm 
 

Dimitri Mazieres wrote:From my limited point of view, I think this is what's happening. BIN prices (whether on eBay or Amazon) for most of the "popular" d20 products right now are simply ridiculous. And those who aren't, well, they don't last long ;)
For example, the PHB 3.5 usually sells for $20-30 in eBay's auctions, but for some reason some people think that someone will pay over $40 for a used PHB...  :?


Don't confuse resellers with people selling at auction. There are certainly ridiculous prices out there, but some sellers are not looking for quick sales at the ebay auction price, they are looking for a certain amount of profit. If a reseller has to spend $20-30 to stock an item they aren't going to sell it for that amount, they are going to shoot for $40 and wait for the customer who has no patience for auctions. Now if there are resellers who continually have PHBs for $20 -$30 at bin prices, then it may be a very long wait to sell one at $40

Now the Necromancer items being put up for sale from Necromancer Games at super high bins I see as low cost advertising and not realistic attempts to sell (except maybe to get people to look at pdf copies).

  


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:38 pm 
 

JasonZavoda wrote:Don't confuse resellers with people selling at auction. There are certainly ridiculous prices out there, but some sellers are not looking for quick sales at the ebay auction price, they are looking for a certain amount of profit. If a reseller has to spend $20-30 to stock an item they aren't going to sell it for that amount, they are going to shoot for $40 and wait for the customer who has no patience for auctions. Now if there are resellers who continually have PHBs for $20 -$30 at bin prices, then it may be a very long wait to sell one at $40

Mmm... Yes but, do you think it's realistic to ask for prices like these? I mean, if they had a "Or Best Offer" option it would give some haggling space, but otherwise it seems these sellers are in for a long wait, just like you said.

JasonZavoda wrote:Now the Necromancer items being put up for sale from Necromancer Games at super high bins I see as low cost advertising and not realistic attempts to sell (except maybe to get people to look at pdf copies).


Can't argue with that :)


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:45 pm 
 

Schools out and there are very few summer jobs for young people in the U.S.  Every summer almost all collectibles dip as schoolteachers and high school and college kids start posting on ebay like crazy from things they no longer want and/or from picks from yard sales and flea markets.  



Every summer, supply for common to mid range items increases and demand doesn't, so prices dip.  The lack of summer jobs in the U.S. coupled with the fact that thousands of teachers have not been informed if there are jobs secure for them in the fall, will force supply up even further and cause price dips.  And, this is all on top of a severe recession which probably permanently effected the price of many collectibles.  This collecting crowd is young enough that prices may recover, but we don't know that.  



Collectors, dealers and resellers who can afford to hold onto stock until fall, (almost any fall), will likely realize better prices for their stuff.  Meanwhile, the buying is good and if you want things, gorge while you can.  I expect some of the rarer things may creep up in prices as the lackluster news related to the Gygax sale sinks in.  I fully expect some people have been selling to come up with bidding cash and others not buying much to create a "war chest".  Unless specific exciting Gygax items get posted to that auction quick, some relatively deep pocketed collectors may quit holding money back for that sale and spend more freely on ebay.



These buyers will probably not effect the d20 stuff as they likely have what they want.  D20 needs to cycle through the market a time or so before anyone knows what it is really worth.  



Dunno why people argue about prices for any of it.  If someone lists an item too high, it won't sell.  And, if a vendor will hold inventory for 9 months to 3 years, it is their right.  How many of you would be willing to sell your house or car on ebay in a 3-7 day cash only sale!  Unless it's pretty special, you will have a Realtor keep it listed for months to get a fair price.  No reason to lose money simply because the first buyer who comes along wants to buy it on the cheap.  



Also, for some vendors, (me certainly)... it's easier to keep a listing posted for a nickle now and then than to redo the listing several months or even a year or two later.  (ie. 24 x .05 = cheaper to leave posted than to let expire and redo the work)  If three people undercut a price by $10 or $50...  good for them.  They should certainly sell their item(s) first, unless they have a bad reputation with the buyer(s).  



Why on earth would it bother people if the selection on ebay varies in quality and price?  If you are determined to get the best price possible... do the work to watch for and wait for it.  Meanwhile, life and business go on, without the unanimous consent of the participants.


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:09 pm 
 

Pipswich wrote:Dunno why people argue about prices for any of it.  If someone lists an item too high, it won't sell.  And, if a vendor will hold inventory for 9 months to 3 years, it is their right.  How many of you would be willing to sell your house or car on ebay in a 3-7 day cash only sale!  Unless it's pretty special, you will have a Realtor keep it listed for months to get a fair price.  No reason to lose money simply because the first buyer who comes along wants to buy it on the cheap.

Your basic argument is sound.  Some sellers price themselves out of the market.  Maybe their books will eventually sell, but in the meantime the money spent on buying and stocking the book has done nothing but sit on a shelf.  If the seller can wait that long and is satisfied with the return on the money, good for him.

As an example, the lower-priced 3.5 PHBs on Amazon today (Monday) are not the lower-priced PHBs that were there over the weekend (Friday-Sunday).  I sold two used PHBs this weekend --- one for $29.99 on Friday night and one for $32.99 on Saturday night.  They were at the low end of the price range but not the lowest when I listed them.  Now the lowest is $39.99 for a damaged book.  Other sellers will undercut that price with better-quality books for the weekend.  The $39.99 PHB may sell tonight because it is the lowest right now, or buyers may wait for a better price or condition.  *shrug*

I often lower a price on my Amazon books to see if other sellers' bots lower their prices.  Sometimes prices drop far and quickly.  Sometimes they come back up when I return my price to its original level.  *another shrug*

  

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Post Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:20 pm 
 

Amazon is crazy. Or, rather, the selling prices for a lot of the stuff is.


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Post Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:33 am 
 

FormCritic wrote:Part of the "cheaper than normally expected" phenomenon is that sellers have expected prices that are two to three times too high.  A drop in price over the short term was inevitable.

The other recent drop in Necromancer prices was caused by a seller who listed almost the entire catalog at the same time and then did not accept international bidders.




I agree with Mark. Inflated values is a huge deterent for these. I sold a Tomb of Abysthor recently for $30, which IMO is a fair price and much closer to reality than the $70+ stuff on ebay.



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