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Post Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 10:54 pm 
 

Hometown Games in Lawrence, KS, has two copies of Rise of the Runelords Chapter 1: Burnt Offerings.  Unfortunately, they are shelfworn and may have been previously read.

If they are still there in a month or two, I'll know that condition matters more than availability for this book.

  

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Post Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:23 am 
 

From Bill Webb's sales pitch at Frog God Games:

In the meanwhile, missing that out of print Necromancer Games Module? Never got a chance to buy the low print run K series while they were in stores (less than 400 of each in circulation)?

Do you figure that this means there were only 400 sent out to distributors?

Or, does it mean only 400 were printed?


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Post Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:07 am 
 

FormCritic wrote:From Bill Webb's sales pitch at Frog God Games:

In the meanwhile, missing that out of print Necromancer Games Module? Never got a chance to buy the low print run K series while they were in stores (less than 400 of each in circulation)?

Do you figure that this means there were only 400 sent out to distributors?

Or, does it mean only 400 were printed?




That's tough to say although it seems doubtful that they would have only printed 400 when all their other items had much larger print runs.  So, if I had to guess I would say that more than 400 were printed and that 400 is only the number sent to distributors.



The K series was one of the items that was being dumped on Ebay not so long ago (last summer or fall).  You could get the full set for around $25-$35.  I'm sure the seller must have sold at least 50 sets of them.  Maybe Necro Games put a stop to it so they could sell them individually for a higher price (such as $37 for 1 book):



http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0472869173



With more than 10 available of this rare book, it makes you wonder if they really have hundreds of copies left.  Maybe it would be more beneficial if they took a Melanda Daysofknights sales strategy.

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Post Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:01 am 
 

I suspect that is what is meant by "in circulation."

It makes them sound more rare.

I snagged one of the first lots of the K series last year.


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Post Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:36 am 
 

Mars wrote:

That's tough to say although it seems doubtful that they would have only printed 400 when all their other items had much larger print runs.  So, if I had to guess I would say that more than 400 were printed and that 400 is only the number sent to distributors.

The K series was one of the items that was being dumped on Ebay not so long ago (last summer or fall).  You could get the full set for around $25-$35.  I'm sure the seller must have sold at least 50 sets of them.  Maybe Necro Games put a stop to it so they could sell them individually for a higher price (such as $37 for 1 book):

** eBay auction listing blocked.  Please enable cookies in your browser for this site and for eBay! **

With more than 10 available of this rare book, it makes you wonder if they really have hundreds of copies left.  Maybe it would be more beneficial if they took a Melanda Daysofknights sales strategy.




This was a Kenzerco/Necromancer series. Could be the reason for a lower print run. Could be that the print run was split between kenzerco and necromancer so the 400 might represent necromancers stock.



The seller dumping the K series on ebay, along with kalamar and hackmaster lots, was Amber Blackburn. Jolly Blackburn is either co-owner or chief slave at kenzerco (he writes Knights of the Dinner Table).



Makes me think that Jolly took part of his cut or pay in physical stock and is dumping it on ebay to raise some cash. I don't believe necromancer would have any say in the matter.

  

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Post Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:40 pm 
 

JasonZavoda wrote:Makes me think that Jolly took part of his cut or pay in physical stock and is dumping it on ebay to raise some cash. I don't believe necromancer would have any say in the matter.


That sounds like a crappy way of getting paid.  I don't think Kenzer (as a small publisher) would have wanted any part of an agreement to get paid in product - I don't think they would have the capital (or want the risk) to cover that kind of deal.  Although maybe it brought more traffic/exposure to their other products.  Also I don't think Necromancer was ever in financial trouble and would have to pay the publisher in old stock.

Since Necromancer seems to have all the stock now, its possible that they put a stop to blow out pricing to resell it themselves (why wouldn't they have a say in how their products were sold?).  I'm just curious as to how many copies Necro is hanging onto.  Since a limited print run seems to be 1000 copies and other high priced sets had runs of 2500, it sounds like they must have hundreds of copies of each book sitting around.  Even with a limited print run of 1000 copies, 400 into distribution, 50-100? sets blown out on Ebay that leaves a lot of left over stock.

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Post Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:07 pm 
 

I've been trying to get Bill Webb on the phone to ask him directly.  

I have a few other publishing questions for him.


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Post Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:55 pm 
 

While some of those Necromancer products are priced accordingly to current demand, there's a lot of overpriced ones, from what I see. Maze of Zayene isn't that difficult to find (all four of them), and I recently got Lost City of Barakus for about $9 (although I'm the first to admit that I got lucky there  :D )


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Post Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:58 pm 
 

Lost City of Barakus is a good one. I'd rather have that than City of Brass.


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:21 am 
 

I really want to like Lost City of Barakus.

My main beef with it is that it is called Lost City of Barakus, but the module focuses a lot on an entirely different not-lost city that is the base for a campaign.

I would have liked as much attention and mapping effort paid to actually giving me a detailed lost city instead of all the space (and a large detachable map) to the not-lost city.

I paid something like $15 for my copy.  It is new, except that the idiot seller (who was closing out his game store) wrote "New $26.95" on the front end paper in permanent marker.  It was an act of astonishing stupidity.


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 11:08 am 
 

FormCritic wrote:
I paid something like $15 for my copy.  It is new, except that the idiot seller (who was closing out his game store) wrote "New $26.95" on the front end paper in permanent marker.  It was an act of astonishing stupidity.


Ho Ho.  Very special move. :D

  

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Post Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 3:24 pm 
 

Last time I looked Barakus was still selling for a higher amount but I guess its value is dropping off as well.  A number of the other Necro books can be had for cheap cheap cheap these days too.



http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0392727114



http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0392726500



http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0392726726



http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0390825735



http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0390825726



At least this rare copy of K9 managed to get a 99 cent bid :)



http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0390825725

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Post Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:27 pm 
 

I haven't collected the Necromancer Games products seriously yet, and I'm wondering what their content is like and which ones are htf.
Can anyone tell me where to start?
The copies I have (through chance good deals, from what I can tell) are G4 and G6.
Gary

  

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Post Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 5:00 pm 
 

I'd start with the biggies: Tomb of Abysthor, Rappan Athuk (you can buy R1-3 or pay more and buy the boxed set), the Judges Guild stuff (CSIO and Wilderlands), but to be boldly honest, none of the stuff published is bad per se, as a publisher (unlike say Goodman Games, Troll Lord Games, etc.) their workd are consistently high quality and well presented.

Prices are generally still quite high for the more popular choices, and seem to be holding. I'll leave you to find out which are the rares and which are not. You can also find good deals in bundles on eBay from time to time, particularly when private sellers are shifting collections.

I'm sure the more active readers/players among us will have more constructive advice from a gameplay point of view. I'm just a dealer at the moment.


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Post Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 6:53 pm 
 

Some "experts" here are probably going to say that these are ultra rare but really none of them are rare but certainly some are more in demand than others.  By in demand it means that they sell for around 1-1.5 time cover price.  The most in demand is the Rappan Athuk Reloaded boxed set and it is probably the rarest with "only" 1000 copies being made.  Valuations are up and down.  Noble Knight had copies for sale and 1 in shrink for $160 (I think) a couple of months ago - probably $150-$180 is about right (cover price was $100).



I'm not sure if any others are really worth significantly more than cover price.  The Wilderlands boxed set come in around $75-$100 with cover price of $70.  CSIO hardcover book currently sells around $45 (cover price of $35).



Lots of people seem to like boxed sets.  The other Necromancer Games boxed set is City of Brass but that can be had for less than cover price.



Necromancer Games themselves have a lot of stuff on Ebay right now:



eBay listings



But most of their valuations are flat out ridiculous.  They do however suggest that the K series might be less common.  A seller last summer blew out a number of these sets of books for cheap though so I think it means that they probably have a ton of copies left.



Most of their books are good.  If you are thinking about trying to get a set of them all, then I would start by finding most of the common stuff that is going for $5 or less and in the meantime, keep your eye out for some of the more in demand books that might sell a bit on the lower side.

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Post Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:48 pm 
 

Mars wrote:Last time I looked Barakus was still selling for a higher amount but I guess its value is dropping off as well.  A number of the other Necro books can be had for cheap cheap cheap these days too.


** expired eBay auction **



** expired eBay auction **



** expired eBay auction **



** expired eBay auction **



** expired eBay auction **


At least this rare copy of K9 managed to get a 99 cent bid :)


** expired eBay auction **




Well, mayhemcomics is selling them for cheap.  That's for sure.  8O



I have noticed a tendency among collectors to chase after certain items because they are high priced.



(A part of it has to do with what one considers "high."  For me, any purchase over $10 requires reflection.  A purchase of $20 requires a good reason.  A purchase of $30 means I want the item bad and I see no other options.  Some people here would laugh at the idea of $30 being expensive.)



The point I have been making is that the Necromancer publications are cheap...which is why collectors should snap them up right now before they get expensive.



Right now is the 'doh! moment people will look back on when they realize that the D20 modules were once on the discount shelf for $1.



The Raise the Dead listing, which I believe I mentioned here, is something that should have been pounced on.  If you're reading this because you're new to collecting and want to know where to start then my advice to you is to get these cheap items now.











.


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Post Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:29 pm 
 

Hey, new collector!  

I am not a real clever collector.  I am more of a hobbyist who bumbles about like Peter Rabbit in Mr. MacGregor's garden, hoping the cat won't get me and losing my coat crawling under the gate.

That said, from the point of view of someone who is not a re-seller and (relatively speaking) not a big spender, I offer you the:

D20 COLLECTING ADVICE OF THE DAY

Watch for sell-offs.

A lot of D20 stuff originally hit the market for way over-inflated prices.  With so much material on store shelves those modules sat there for half a decade until D20 was supplanted by D&D 4.0....WOTC's own version of New Coke.

Most game stores discounted these items and unloaded them.  The other game stores did what game stores usually do...they went out of business.  

Most game store owners are also hobbyists, who fully intend to re-open.  It takes them a year or two to figure out that is not going to happen.  Then they unload the boxes in their garage to a distributor like...for instance...Troll and Toad.

If you watch, you will notice a tendency for numbers of similar products to appear on the market at the same time for a very reduced price.

Mayhemcomics (mentioned above), for instance, has obviously acquired the stock of a failed store, or some similar source, and they are dumping the modules for cheap.  The fire sale will last only as long as Mayhemcomics has stock to dump.  Then it will be gone.

The same thing is happening at Troll and Toad right now, where the entire run of Goodman Games' 4.0 Dungeon Crawl Classics line is being dumped off in complete lots.  Troll and Toad has a lot of them, so the source was probably Goodman Games themselves (because of the whole D&D 4.0 New Coke thing).  They have so many of these lots that the price has actually dropped in recent weeks.

These sell-offs do not last.  The seller runs out of dump-off stock.  The dump-off stock was bought by small collectors and enthusiasts, who will hang onto it forever.  But a lot of it was purchased for re-sale by second tier Ebay re-sellers.  

When the dump-off ends, the D20 items re-appear on Ebay, listed by the second tier re-sellers.  Sometimes, the second tier re-sellers actually have the dump-off stocked marked-up on Ebay before the dump-off sale ends, because there's always a buyer who does not know the score.

If you want a D20 item, the time to buy is during the dump-off.  Don't be disuaded by the idea that no one wants these items and they will always be around.  They won't.

A good example of this can be seen in what happened to Judges Guild collecting over the past five years.  When I got into collecting Judges Guild stuff there were a lot of items listed for 99 cents.  The prices for more rare items ranged from $3 up to $30, with a lot of mid-range popular publications up around the $15 mark.  

There were a lot of Ebay Judges Guild re-sellers around because cargo container stocks of the publications had surfaced in two or more locations around the country.  The stock passed around in very large lots between re-sellers and appeared on Ebay from multiple sources.

Now, Judges Guild common items are still available in the $3 range.  There are very few 99 cent deals.  The  $30 items are now around $75-$100.  Those items are not what I'm talking about here.

It is the mid-range items you should pay attention to.  I bought several of the Wilderlands adventure series modules in the $15 range.  I bought Dark Tower for $20 and a second copy for $9.95.  I bought two copies of Caverns of Thracia for around $5.  I bought Inferno, just as it started to take off, at under $20.

Go and check on the prices for those items now.

Judges Guild is not a perfect metaphor for the D20 items because the glut was so huge.  But, just for fun, check on the prices for shrinkwrapped bundles of Judges Guild magazines.  I have several of those shrinkwrapped bundles because they were around $2 apiece and no one wanted them!

My interest in Judges Guild led me to Necromancer Games.  Back a few years ago, copies of the Necromancer Games City State of the Invincible Overlord were sometimes getting no bids in the $10 range.  I picked one up at $10 thinking I was being foolish.  

I stupidly passed on copies of the Necromancer Wilderlands of High Adventure boxed sets for $12, $15, $25...$35...and then I realized that I had been stupid, but it was too late.

Point is...in case anyone is still reading...dump-offs are a limited opportunity. They go away.  Higher prices follow.  Do not be lulled into waiting on these items just because they are only 99 cents.  Get them now, or pay the re-seller much much more than that a year or so from now.


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Post Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:29 am 
 

Okay, that's great. I was thinking of concentrating on the G, K, and possibly D series, with F3 thrown in if I can get it.
Since I've already got the R1-3 (thanks to enthusiasts here!), I didn't include them. I've got Abysthor as well (I keep forgetting that one for some reason).
Right now, it's cheap modules over the pocket book-slaughtering boxed sets <sad>.
I'm glad that NG is consistently great for content (I want either the playing or collecting potential).
BTW: What do you think?:
Golden age: 1979 and earlier (OD&D, Basic, and very early 1st Edition);
Silver Age: 1980-2000 approx. (most 1st Edition and all 2nd Edition AD&D);
Bronze Age: 2001+ (d20/3rd Edition).
I know the dates don't line up in the usual color-coding way (I'm not sure of the exact cut-off for each Edition), but this is the way I think of collecting.
In general, I don't think 4th Edition will ever be as collectable as prior Editions. Low print runs on some items will be the exceptions.
Gary

  
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