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Post Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:33 pm 
 

I think I get it..the castle is the two box sets, the city is to be the 24 modules.
Has Troll Lords announced the city stuff yet, I don't recall reading it and I check the forums usually every day.

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Post Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:40 pm 
 

FormCritic wrote:24
(I wrote of a review of Yggsburgh, by the way.  It is around here on the Acaeum, somewhere.)


It is about 1/3 of the way down the following page:

viewtopic.php?t=4137&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40


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Post Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:41 pm 
 

No, Steve Chenault has not formally announced them but I imagine they will be announced relatively quickly (I hope not too long after LGGC III, but only Gary and Steve know when for sure.) However, its not like they're coming from nowhere, since Gary Gygax made them publically known when he did his call for designers a while back. I just happened to get lucky enough to be "special consultant." They are separate from the CZ castle, as they are about Yggsburgh and the environs thereabout, but they are related to the whole project.

Its been a bumpy ride, to be sure, but CZ stuff is on the way.


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Post Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:56 pm 
 

Cool..knew about the city project in the beginning (was almost a part of that but didn't have the time) so shall have to see about the modules and how they'll work.

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Post Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:33 pm 
 

serleran wrote:The Castle is going to box set(s), rather than 8 hardbacks. But, the city is being expanded in 24 modules. So, you're getting both, the city and castle/ruins. All that has changed is that the format shifted from hardback to box set. Its just easier to give relevant material in box format, especially when one book might've had stuff from two or more maps, or one map might have stuff from two or more books. So, umm, I guess no you won't see "books." You'll see box sets (looks to be two) and 24 modules focusing on Yggsburgh. Is that more clear?


Are there any plans to fix the egregious Yggsburgh city map?  

Possibly replace it with a map suitable for fantasy gaming?


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Post Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:45 pm 
 

jasonw1239 wrote:
It is about 1/3 of the way down the following page:

viewtopic.php?t=4137&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40


Thanks for finding that, Jason.

Arrogant as I may be in saying so, I think that the folks at Troll Lord Games would do well to read this review.  It is a favorable review with some specific suggestions about easy ways to fix the project...particularly the city map.

One thing they are apparently addressing is the price and scope of the series.  I think that two boxed sets might be an incredibly wise move...but then I did not know that people like boxed sets over hardback books.  (I can see how they might.)

If Troll Lord Games lacks a guy who can draw a city map, I could do it for them.  I'd probably do it for free!  My Yggsburgh map wouldn't be the work of a professional artist, but it would be 10 times the value that they currently have.  A professional artist might be able to fix the basic work into a really excellent product based on a drawing by me or someone like me.


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Post Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:33 pm 
 

The only map redux I am aware of involved the Darlene map from the book, but I will see about finding more info on an improved city map, but I can't promise anything. I think there will be a consolidated map of the city when all the town modules are finished, but I can't say for certain.


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:04 am 
 

I re-read my scathing remarks on the city map.  Even after some months, I still consider my remarks to be dead on...even moderate.

To make a product of that scope and that prestige...and then shackle it with a cruddy map in four colors is inexplicable.


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:14 am 
 

I have always been dissapointed with Troll Lord Games products. Its such a shame too because they always have great ideals and creativity, but the actual execution of those plans always fall short. By the way, did they ever hire a paid editor, or are they still proofreading stuff themselves 30 minutes before it goes to the printing press?

  

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Post Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:23 am 
 

Heh, I won't defend the poor editing, especially of things like the C&C 1st printing, which was rushed, or even Yggsburgh (which had a professional editor, by the way, who failed in his task...) but there has been marked improvement in products like C&C Monsters and Treasure (I'm not just saying that because I co-authored it, but because it had something like 6 editors, and they spent time on it, but it's not immune to problems either; also, it doesn't help that my writing can be "difficult" at times.) There is a staff editor, too.

I'm going to bring up the notion of making better maps, or, at least, making "production level" ones available as free enhancements to the products.

I'd say, comparing products from 2000 (the TLG pre-d20 Sword and Sorcery line of stuff like the original Mortality of Green) to something like the C&C PHB 2nd printing is pretty obvious that things have improved at TLG in the "structure and editing department."


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:37 am 
 

I have few complaints about the spell checking at TLG.  I have seen worse.  The guy who did Yggsburgh too obviously relied on a computer spell checker and the find/replace function on Word.  It made for some nutty errors.

I know first-hand that editing RPG stuff can be a complicated and time consuming task.  There are so many nonsense names and terms...combined with lots of italics, special script and layout quirks.

My complaint about the Yggsburgh city map is that it was obviously expensive to make...and for the same money they could have had something grand.  

In a city module, the maps are the key components.  Dungeons can be fairly random, so long as we can see roughly where everything connects.  City maps have to be good.  Outdoor maps, that place an adventure in its setting and frame a quest, are also more important than dungeon maps.

The large scale map by Darlene was just great...if the key encounter sites had not been numbered right on the map...another inexplicable decision which did not involve any change in production costs.

I've noticed the same trend with other TLG products.  They skimp on drawing the maps.  Why?

The concept style map for Lost City of Gaxmoor was a very nice TLG exception.  They need to revisit that publication...and then take a look a the city maps for Freeport and the online map of the City of Greyhawk.  A look at the City State of the Invincible Overlord would also give them a nice idea of how to proceed...but with just a bit more detail than Judges Guild included.

I don't really want to carp.  I just want them to succeed.  

Mark   8)


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:01 am 
 

On the maps, and this will be my last post about this (sorry for the thread-jack, and for looking like a fanboy): I can't say, to be honest. The mind of the Chenaults is an interesting place to be, but only they know why they do what they do. I can only imagine there are reasons, but have no way to actually say they are true. I agree that maps can make or break a module, and when its a campaign setting, as Yggsburgh was intended, having good maps of the place is key. I think this will be addressed in the expansions (the 24 module thing mentioned before), but it should have been done in the "core." Maybe they just wanted to get the product out? Maybe Steve and Davis like the maps the way they are? Maybe Peter Bradley (who I think did layout) had to resize to get it to fit? I don't honestly know.

Gaxmoor is a great product. :)


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:55 pm 
 

serleran wrote:Gaxmoor is a great product. :)

What other World of Erde products are worth buying but not too frustrating of a read?   They are on promotional sale now; is anything particularly collectible?

I already have both the Codex of Erde and The Lost City of Gaxmoor.

  

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Post Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:15 pm 
 

What other World of Erde products are worth buying but not too frustrating of a read?   They are on promotional sale now; is anything particularly collectible?


Well, this will be about all of the TLG products, since many of the original WoE products are being revamped for C&C and the remake as World of Aihrde (Airdhe? -- I never get that right.)

All the early TLG products are riddled with spelling mistakes and grammar problems, but there are some that are worth getting (especially if you want to use them in your game) like The Fantastic Adventure and Gary Gygax's The Hermit, along with Dark Druids. Heart of Glass is an excellent module (Winter Runes is a neat sourcebook,) and the entire run of the Gygaxian Fantasy World series is good, but has value depending on if you need them (for example, Insidiae is good if you need help with plots, or if you want to write fantasy novels, but if you use modules all the time, its not as much use.) Other stuff, like Book of Familiars is very useful, even for non-d20 games (I use it for help in creating alternate mutant animals for my Gamma World games.) The Map of the World of Erde is pretty cool, too.

On the collectible side, I'd say that the original After Winter Dark (pre-d20, pre-Codex of Erde -- it was from this that the Codex was written) product is good, as is the pre-d20 Sword and Sorcery game system (its a universal game system) module Mortality of Green. Other things that are difficult to find/rare are the CD-ROM products The Malady of Kings and The Fantastic Adventure (there are supposedly others but I have not ever seen them.)


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:50 pm 
 

I don't have them in front of me, but I have bought most of those Erde D20 modules while they  have been on special.

Pardon my spelling of their names....

The "Death on the Treklant" series is interesting.  They are not great works of fiction, but could work as adventures...particularly the last one, which features a massed battle.

Berchtholt by Shadow of Night is a city module that lacks a good map.  The overall feel is good.  The layout is not good.

Dark Druids, by Rob Kuntz, is good...I have written a review of it somewhere around here.....

I have not really studied the others yet.  I just collected them at their low price for future reference.  I think everyone who doesn't will regret it eventually.


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:58 pm 
 

I believe I got all their print stuff..btw The Malady of Kings and The Fantastic Adventure are also print products.
Haven't checked out the site today, but shall in a bit..hope the sale is for something just released.

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Post Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:35 pm 
 

Plaag wrote:Haven't checked out the site today, but shall in a bit..hope the sale is for something just released.

I clicked on the "Erde" link and got shown their old Erde products that are on sale.  I don't know how long this sale has been running.  I think Mark mentioned it recently.

  

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Post Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 6:31 am 
 

Those who liked Rappan Athuk Box Set may want to think about picking up the City of Brass Box Set from Necromancer Games.

It contains 4 books: Book 1 gives an overview and details of the Plane of Molten Skies and the City of Brass. Book 2 is 1001 Efreet Nights and features adventures in the City of Brass and Plane of Molten Skies. Book 3 is NPCs, new magic items, feats, spells, and other crunch to use in the setting. Book 4 is the map book, the maps are colored to resemble parchment.

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Post Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 3:00 pm 
 

Do you guys know about Wolfgang Baur´s  Open Design?  Basically he is writing D20 projects on comission. The first adventure "Castle Shadowcrag" is limited to 200 issues. I´m not sure if the later projects will be limited too though. The reviews are good and i think it is an interesting concept.  

Links:
http://www.wolfgangbaur.com/
http://customadventure.livejournal.com/

P.S.: He´s publishing a game zine too: Kobold Quarterly

  

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Post Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2007 5:26 pm 
 

frankfromgermany wrote:Do you guys know about Wolfgang Baur´s  Open Design?  Basically he is writing D20 projects on comission. The first adventure "Castle Shadowcrag" is limited to 200 issues. I´m not sure if the later projects will be limited too though. The reviews are good and i think it is an interesting concept.  

Links:
http://www.wolfgangbaur.com/
http://customadventure.livejournal.com/

P.S.: He´s publishing a game zine too: Kobold Quarterly


Thanks for the heads up.  It looks very interesting...kind of like Rob Kuntz' project.


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