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Post Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 9:59 am 
 

On the subject...

I picked up Rappan Athuk---Reloaded the other day, both as an investment (it sells for $75 in the stores and has already sold for as much as $100 online) and out of curiousity.  

Anyway, if you play 3rd edition, it's a nice purchase, the dozens of levels and hundreds of pages could keep your group busy for awhile. If you play another version of D&D, it could be nice purchase because unlike other 3rd ed products there are no stat blocks crapping up the descriptions...they are all in another book, separate from the main text. Anothee book contains all the maps.  Without the ever annoying stat blocks, it doesn't interfere with a DM's creative juices if he wants to convert it to another edition.

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Post Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:03 am 
 

Badmike wrote:
How is this series coming along? Are the proposed continuations (three more books, if I'm not mistaken) still going to be printed?

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One module already released..2 more hardbacks or box sets (haven't checked, but something along these lines)..one to be released at GenCon.

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Post Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:11 am 
 

Badmike wrote:On the subject...

I picked up Rappan Athuk---Reloaded the other day, both as an investment (it sells for $75 in the stores and has already sold for as much as $100 online) and out of curiousity.  

Anyway, if you play 3rd edition, it's a nice purchase, the dozens of levels and hundreds of pages could keep your group busy for awhile. If you play another version of D&D, it could be nice purchase because unlike other 3rd ed products there are no stat blocks crapping up the descriptions...they are all in another book, separate from the main text. Anothee book contains all the maps.  Without the ever annoying stat blocks, it doesn't interfere with a DM's creative juices if he wants to convert it to another edition.

Mike B.


Yep...there was 1000 printed and they are all sold out. And these came with numbered cards a few of which got the person prizes or were signed by Demon Lords :twisted:
One card allowed free Necromancer Games products for life I believe and don't think anyone has come forward yet (demon signed one has been announced though)

Necromancer Games has gone to the model of placing the majority of its stat blocks at the back (something I prefer what with d20's way of presenting them.)

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Post Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:43 am 
 

One module already released..2 more hardbacks or box sets (haven't checked, but something along these lines)..one to be released at GenCon.


I'm someone in the know on this project, and basically all other TLG things at some level or other. The hardback format has been abandoned, as box sets are preferred. The first offering coming is a folio-like deal, and there are 24 modules (some still in production, the others waiting to be released) on the town Yggsburgh (not the Castle) itself to expand the city environs.


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Post Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:13 pm 
 

24 modules?

The hardback project has been abandoned?

So we're not going to see the castle ruins and dungeons books to go with the city of Yggsburgh?

(I wrote of a review of Yggsburgh, by the way.  It is around here on the Acaeum, somewhere.)


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Post Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 4:21 pm 
 

The Castle is going to box set(s), rather than 8 hardbacks. But, the city is being expanded in 24 modules. So, you're getting both, the city and castle/ruins. All that has changed is that the format shifted from hardback to box set. Its just easier to give relevant material in box format, especially when one book might've had stuff from two or more maps, or one map might have stuff from two or more books. So, umm, I guess no you won't see "books." You'll see box sets (looks to be two) and 24 modules focusing on Yggsburgh. Is that more clear?


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Post Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:33 pm 
 

I think I get it..the castle is the two box sets, the city is to be the 24 modules.
Has Troll Lords announced the city stuff yet, I don't recall reading it and I check the forums usually every day.

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Post Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:40 pm 
 

FormCritic wrote:24
(I wrote of a review of Yggsburgh, by the way.  It is around here on the Acaeum, somewhere.)


It is about 1/3 of the way down the following page:

viewtopic.php?t=4137&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40


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Post Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:41 pm 
 

No, Steve Chenault has not formally announced them but I imagine they will be announced relatively quickly (I hope not too long after LGGC III, but only Gary and Steve know when for sure.) However, its not like they're coming from nowhere, since Gary Gygax made them publically known when he did his call for designers a while back. I just happened to get lucky enough to be "special consultant." They are separate from the CZ castle, as they are about Yggsburgh and the environs thereabout, but they are related to the whole project.

Its been a bumpy ride, to be sure, but CZ stuff is on the way.


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Post Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 5:56 pm 
 

Cool..knew about the city project in the beginning (was almost a part of that but didn't have the time) so shall have to see about the modules and how they'll work.

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Post Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:33 pm 
 

serleran wrote:The Castle is going to box set(s), rather than 8 hardbacks. But, the city is being expanded in 24 modules. So, you're getting both, the city and castle/ruins. All that has changed is that the format shifted from hardback to box set. Its just easier to give relevant material in box format, especially when one book might've had stuff from two or more maps, or one map might have stuff from two or more books. So, umm, I guess no you won't see "books." You'll see box sets (looks to be two) and 24 modules focusing on Yggsburgh. Is that more clear?


Are there any plans to fix the egregious Yggsburgh city map?  

Possibly replace it with a map suitable for fantasy gaming?


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Post Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 2:45 pm 
 

jasonw1239 wrote:
It is about 1/3 of the way down the following page:

viewtopic.php?t=4137&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40


Thanks for finding that, Jason.

Arrogant as I may be in saying so, I think that the folks at Troll Lord Games would do well to read this review.  It is a favorable review with some specific suggestions about easy ways to fix the project...particularly the city map.

One thing they are apparently addressing is the price and scope of the series.  I think that two boxed sets might be an incredibly wise move...but then I did not know that people like boxed sets over hardback books.  (I can see how they might.)

If Troll Lord Games lacks a guy who can draw a city map, I could do it for them.  I'd probably do it for free!  My Yggsburgh map wouldn't be the work of a professional artist, but it would be 10 times the value that they currently have.  A professional artist might be able to fix the basic work into a really excellent product based on a drawing by me or someone like me.


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Post Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 5:33 pm 
 

The only map redux I am aware of involved the Darlene map from the book, but I will see about finding more info on an improved city map, but I can't promise anything. I think there will be a consolidated map of the city when all the town modules are finished, but I can't say for certain.


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:04 am 
 

I re-read my scathing remarks on the city map.  Even after some months, I still consider my remarks to be dead on...even moderate.

To make a product of that scope and that prestige...and then shackle it with a cruddy map in four colors is inexplicable.


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:14 am 
 

I have always been dissapointed with Troll Lord Games products. Its such a shame too because they always have great ideals and creativity, but the actual execution of those plans always fall short. By the way, did they ever hire a paid editor, or are they still proofreading stuff themselves 30 minutes before it goes to the printing press?

  

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Post Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:23 am 
 

Heh, I won't defend the poor editing, especially of things like the C&C 1st printing, which was rushed, or even Yggsburgh (which had a professional editor, by the way, who failed in his task...) but there has been marked improvement in products like C&C Monsters and Treasure (I'm not just saying that because I co-authored it, but because it had something like 6 editors, and they spent time on it, but it's not immune to problems either; also, it doesn't help that my writing can be "difficult" at times.) There is a staff editor, too.

I'm going to bring up the notion of making better maps, or, at least, making "production level" ones available as free enhancements to the products.

I'd say, comparing products from 2000 (the TLG pre-d20 Sword and Sorcery line of stuff like the original Mortality of Green) to something like the C&C PHB 2nd printing is pretty obvious that things have improved at TLG in the "structure and editing department."


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:37 am 
 

I have few complaints about the spell checking at TLG.  I have seen worse.  The guy who did Yggsburgh too obviously relied on a computer spell checker and the find/replace function on Word.  It made for some nutty errors.

I know first-hand that editing RPG stuff can be a complicated and time consuming task.  There are so many nonsense names and terms...combined with lots of italics, special script and layout quirks.

My complaint about the Yggsburgh city map is that it was obviously expensive to make...and for the same money they could have had something grand.  

In a city module, the maps are the key components.  Dungeons can be fairly random, so long as we can see roughly where everything connects.  City maps have to be good.  Outdoor maps, that place an adventure in its setting and frame a quest, are also more important than dungeon maps.

The large scale map by Darlene was just great...if the key encounter sites had not been numbered right on the map...another inexplicable decision which did not involve any change in production costs.

I've noticed the same trend with other TLG products.  They skimp on drawing the maps.  Why?

The concept style map for Lost City of Gaxmoor was a very nice TLG exception.  They need to revisit that publication...and then take a look a the city maps for Freeport and the online map of the City of Greyhawk.  A look at the City State of the Invincible Overlord would also give them a nice idea of how to proceed...but with just a bit more detail than Judges Guild included.

I don't really want to carp.  I just want them to succeed.  

Mark   8)


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:01 am 
 

On the maps, and this will be my last post about this (sorry for the thread-jack, and for looking like a fanboy): I can't say, to be honest. The mind of the Chenaults is an interesting place to be, but only they know why they do what they do. I can only imagine there are reasons, but have no way to actually say they are true. I agree that maps can make or break a module, and when its a campaign setting, as Yggsburgh was intended, having good maps of the place is key. I think this will be addressed in the expansions (the 24 module thing mentioned before), but it should have been done in the "core." Maybe they just wanted to get the product out? Maybe Steve and Davis like the maps the way they are? Maybe Peter Bradley (who I think did layout) had to resize to get it to fit? I don't honestly know.

Gaxmoor is a great product. :)


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