D20 Collecting
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 18 of 48123 ... 15, 16, 17, 18, 19 ... 464748
Author


Sage Collector
JG Valuation Board
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 2044
Joined: Aug 28, 2006
Last Visit: Mar 11, 2021
Location: Tashkent, Uzbekistan

Post Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:53 am 
 

Can someone enlighten me on these R1, R2 items. I know there has been a lot of excitement about them - but as I am not really into new products I have not had that much interest and have not read through the lengthy threads discussing them.

I know it must have been stated before, but what is all the fuss with these modules? Can someone sum up in a nutshell - What is so good about them? - What system are they for? - Was there a limited print run?

  


Prolific Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 580
Joined: Mar 17, 2009
Last Visit: Jun 08, 2019
Location: Indiana, USA

Post Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:29 am 
 

R1-R3 Rappan Athuk was originally released for D&D 3.0.  They were later recompiled (and edited significantly) into a boxed set for D&D 3.5.  It's your basic meatgrinder super dungeon where you get to battle the evil cultists of Orcus.  At least that's my opinion anyway.


Image

 WWW  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6720
Joined: Jul 16, 2005
Last Visit: Feb 02, 2021

Post Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:45 am 
 

HermitFromPluto wrote:Can someone enlighten me on these R1, R2 items. I know there has been a lot of excitement about them - but as I am not really into new products I have not had that much interest and have not read through the lengthy threads discussing them.

I know it must have been stated before, but what is all the fuss with these modules? Can someone sum up in a nutshell - What is so good about them? - What system are they for? - Was there a limited print run?


They are good modules that are likely to be the Dark Tower of the 3rd Edition generation.

R3 is likely to be a rarity...particularly once a small amount of time has passed.

It's like a couple other Necromancer items that were less than $50 in 2006 and are way up there in price today.


"But I have watched the dragons come, fire-eyed, across the world."

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6236
Joined: Jan 03, 2005
Last Visit: Apr 10, 2021
Location: UK

Post Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:04 pm 
 

I think most of the NG stuff is gonna go up in value pretty quickly. Most of it is good value and well written when compared to the product put out by their competitors at the time, and even the stuff of dubious quality and production value will be collected for the sake of completing the set (R1 for example).

Most NG stuff is either holding it's cover price or reselling way over cover price, and you can't say the same about most of GG's line or TLG's products.


This week I've been mostly eating . . . chicken and wild rice soup.

 WWW  

User avatar

Long-Winded Collector
JG Valuation Board

Posts: 3819
Joined: Jul 12, 2007
Last Visit: Apr 06, 2021

Post Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:21 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:I think most of the NG stuff is gonna go up in value pretty quickly. Most of it is good value and well written when compared to the product put out by their competitors at the time, and even the stuff of dubious quality and production value will be collected for the sake of completing the set (R1 for example).

Most NG stuff is either holding it's cover price or reselling way over cover price, and you can't say the same about most of GG's line or TLG's products.


Considering the liquidation this past fall and the auction lots of DCC#s that Noble Knight has been posting on ebay I am really surprised at the prices that individual DCC's are selling for.  

Down the road I think that the DCCs are going to command decent prices as well, but at the moment we are still seeing the results of the 4e sell off.

  

User avatar

Long-Winded Collector
Subweb Admin
JG Valuation Board

Posts: 4485
Joined: Nov 08, 2002
Last Visit: Apr 10, 2021
Location: Land of 10,000 ponds

Post Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:21 pm 
 

To add to the R1-3 talk...basically the upper portions of the dungeon are the most visited and thus a bit sparse on treasure when PCs get there, further down the risk/reward goes up.  Necromancer Games stuff is not written as low level at the top of the dungeon and harder going down, they intermix any and all challenges throughout.  They expect PCs to run away from time to time.  Same with their wilderness stuff, its not all easy kills around the hometown, there are some challenges that reading the signs right the PCs should avoid early on in their careers.
There slogan is/was 1st edition feel, 3rd edition rules.

ShaneG.


I reject your reality and substitute my own

 WWW  

User avatar

Long-Winded Collector
JG Valuation Board

Posts: 3819
Joined: Jul 12, 2007
Last Visit: Apr 06, 2021

Post Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:25 pm 
 

Plaag wrote:There slogan is/was 1st edition feel, 3rd edition rules.

ShaneG.


I have always found that statement to be too much of an oxymoron.

  


Long-Winded Collector

Posts: 3337
Joined: Oct 10, 2006
Last Visit: Apr 10, 2021
Location: Wandering aimlessly on the 8th level down...

Post Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:36 pm 
 

Plaag wrote:There slogan is/was 1st edition feel, 3rd edition rules.

ShaneG.


Just out of interest, is there any NG 1st edition stuff? I've got a few DCCs recently and I'm looking to convert the 3e back, but for ease 1st ed would be better to begin with.

Cheers


Rolls a '3'

"Did I hit.....?"

  

User avatar

Long-Winded Collector
Subweb Admin
JG Valuation Board

Posts: 4485
Joined: Nov 08, 2002
Last Visit: Apr 10, 2021
Location: Land of 10,000 ponds

Post Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:42 pm 
 

ashmire13 wrote:
Just out of interest, is there any NG 1st edition stuff? I've got a few DCCs recently and I'm looking to convert the 3e back, but for ease 1st ed would be better to begin with.

Cheers


Nope, not in print or pdf form.

ShaneG.


I reject your reality and substitute my own

 WWW  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6236
Joined: Jan 03, 2005
Last Visit: Apr 10, 2021
Location: UK

Post Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:51 pm 
 

Nope.
NG were strictly d20/3E/3.5E.

A list of their publications shouldn't be too difficulat to come buy. There are no obscurities or rares that I am aware of. Just some damn good writing coupled with good typesetting and really find print production, something that both Goodman Games and many other publishers fail to deliver.

Has anyone noticed GG downshifting in the quality of their printed product and their typesetting? Their recent stuff is pretty appaulling compared to the original DCC line. Obviously a cost cutting exercise, but one that is gonna hurt both the future of the company and the wilingness of customers to return. Companies never seem to learn, do they? I am honestly amazed companies can't see the diference between good quality and poor, or that they decide their customers don't warrant good quality, and then they wonder why a better company either buys them out cheap, or they just die. It's such an obvious mistake, like selling crap quality burgers and wondering why you go out of business. How stupid do you have to be?


This week I've been mostly eating . . . chicken and wild rice soup.

 WWW  


Long-Winded Collector

Posts: 3337
Joined: Oct 10, 2006
Last Visit: Apr 10, 2021
Location: Wandering aimlessly on the 8th level down...

Post Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:10 pm 
 

thanks for the info chaps, looks like converting head is going on then!  :lol:


Rolls a '3'

"Did I hit.....?"

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6236
Joined: Jan 03, 2005
Last Visit: Apr 10, 2021
Location: UK

Post Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:14 pm 
 

ashmire13 wrote:thanks for the info chaps, looks like converting head is going on then!  :lol:

If you rewrite something in 1E, from something NG have published, I'm sure I'm not the only one here who whould be interested seeing such a fan conversion in some form.


This week I've been mostly eating . . . chicken and wild rice soup.

 WWW  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6720
Joined: Jul 16, 2005
Last Visit: Feb 02, 2021

Post Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:05 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:Has anyone noticed GG downshifting in the quality of their printed product and their typesetting? Their recent stuff is pretty appaulling compared to the original DCC line. Obviously a cost cutting exercise


The only 4th Edition DCC product I have is Mists of Madness.  I would have to agree that it's below their previous standards.

Of course, that standard might be tempered by the fact that it's a $2 item (or something like that).  The previous $2 DCC products were both of much higher quality.

It didn't even seem like a product from the same company.

I can't figure how they're saving money.  Art is art.  Ink is ink.  

Maybe a professional typesetter is expensive?  Also, the blue maps would be an extra expense.


"But I have watched the dragons come, fire-eyed, across the world."

  


Long-Winded Collector

Posts: 3337
Joined: Oct 10, 2006
Last Visit: Apr 10, 2021
Location: Wandering aimlessly on the 8th level down...

Post Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 7:07 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:If you rewrite something in 1E, from something NG have published, I'm sure I'm not the only one here who whould be interested seeing such a fan conversion in some form.


having only ever played 1st ed, its all I know. I will have a look to see if its do-able  :)


Rolls a '3'

"Did I hit.....?"

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6720
Joined: Jul 16, 2005
Last Visit: Feb 02, 2021

Post Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:13 pm 
 

ashmire13 wrote:
having only ever played 1st ed, its all I know. I will have a look to see if its do-able  :)


Going up from 1.0 to 3.5 could be troublesome as 3rd edition requires a certain level of rules mastery.

There should be no trick going down from 3.5 to 1.0 where there are no rules (at least by comparison to 3rd Edition).

It is the same basic math engine.  1/20 = 5% and 2d8/2 = 9.  Presto.

A DM of any experience ought to be able to substitute stat blocks on the fly with almost no preparation.


"But I have watched the dragons come, fire-eyed, across the world."

  

User avatar

Long-Winded Collector
JG Valuation Board

Posts: 3819
Joined: Jul 12, 2007
Last Visit: Apr 06, 2021

Post Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:38 pm 
 

FormCritic wrote:
Going up from 1.0 to 3.5 could be troublesome as 3rd edition requires a certain level of rules mastery.

There should be no trick going down from 3.5 to 1.0 where there are no rules (at least by comparison to 3rd Edition).

It is the same basic math engine.  1/20 = 5% and 2d8/2 = 9.  Presto.

A DM of any experience ought to be able to substitute stat blocks on the fly with almost no preparation.


I've started working on converting 3e and 3.5 adventures to AD&D. It isn't completely straightforward, but a lot of the conversion work depends on the quality of the published adventure.

It isn't just changing the numbers, it also requires changing the structure of the adventure at times. Some monsters simply do not translate well, and frankly some of the adventures I've come across have flaws from lack of actual play testing. Their are adventures with poor plots but good ideas, and good plots but the adventures are structured badly.

AD&D had plenty of bad modules ( the entire Dragonlance line comes to mind) but there were also gems that as a DM you opened up and there was the adventure just waiting for you to read it and start the game.

I hope that Ptolus is like that, but I havent picked one up. I hear that Rappan Athuk is like that but again it is a set I haven't read through. I'm sure there are some other third edition gems out there, but I'm going through the DCC line just now and I haven't found one yet (I'm just a DCC#13 now).

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6720
Joined: Jul 16, 2005
Last Visit: Feb 02, 2021

Post Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:59 pm 
 

I would venture that for my needs "totally unplayable as written" applied to 90% of all 1st Edition modules...and 90% of all modules ever published of any edition.

My biggest complaint is the Nothing To Kill category.

Second biggest complaint - Only Morons Would Do That category. Were their playtesters complete infants?

Third category - Seriously, You Considered That A Good Idea?

I'm not defending the D20 modules.  Lieber Gott!  Some of those modules were stupid with a capital "stooo."  8O  I'm not defending or denigrating the various D&D versions...I'm just saying that "suck" is not limited to any one edition except, perhaps, 2nd.

*Edit* OK, maybe it was only 50% suck factor with a moderate suckage level in parts of some otherwise good modules.


"But I have watched the dragons come, fire-eyed, across the world."


Last edited by FormCritic on Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6720
Joined: Jul 16, 2005
Last Visit: Feb 02, 2021

Post Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:01 pm 
 

Excellent clue as to whether a 1st Edition module will suck:

Are there text boxes intended for the DM to read aloud?

BIG suckfest clue.


"But I have watched the dragons come, fire-eyed, across the world."

  

User avatar

Long-Winded Collector
JG Valuation Board

Posts: 3819
Joined: Jul 12, 2007
Last Visit: Apr 06, 2021

Post Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:05 pm 
 

FormCritic wrote:I would venture that for my needs "totally unplayable as written" applied to 90% of all 1st Edition modules...and 90% of all modules ever published of any edition.

My biggest complaint is the Nothing To Kill category.

Second biggest complaint - Only Morons Would Do That category. Were their playtesters complete infants?

Third category - Seriously, You Considered That A Good Idea?

I'm not defending the D20 modules.  Lieber Gott!  Some of those modules were stupid with a capital "stooo."  8O  I'm not defending or denigrating the various D&D versions...I'm just saying that "suck" is not limited to any one edition except, perhaps, 2nd.


TSR Gygax Era Modules. I think you can reverse the suck/not suck ratio.  
Most of the early modules varied between gems to servicable, with some utter garbage mixed in.

The DCC line so far doesn't suck, but most of them are greatly flawed (again I'm just starting to dig into DCC#13).

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6720
Joined: Jul 16, 2005
Last Visit: Feb 02, 2021

Post Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 9:17 pm 
 

JasonZavoda wrote:TSR Gygax Era Modules. I think you can reverse the suck/not suck ratio.


I would comletely agree.  

The G and D series modules were meat and potatoes adventure  masquerading as tournament modules.  (Really, what's the whole point of Shrine of the Kuo Toans?  You could make a simple and inexpensive offering and go on your way in a nice 10 minute module experience. Or you could massacre the kuo toans in a rampage of green and red gore.  Your choice.  I know which one I'd pick.)


"But I have watched the dragons come, fire-eyed, across the world."

  
PreviousNext
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 18 of 48123 ... 15, 16, 17, 18, 19 ... 464748