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Post Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 12:07 am 
 

Kingofpain89 wrote:

Here are a few options:


** expired eBay auction **


http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/ ... ition=used




I advise lurking Dreadmire for a while on Ebay.  I paid a lot less than that for my copy.



The guy who sold me my copy had the ebay handle of Spellbindergames, but he claimed not to be associated with the author in any way...just selling off stock he got for cheap. (I had asked him to autograph the book for me.)  :shaking2:



The seller gave me a second chance offer at $3.99....which was my losing bid on a previous auction.


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Post Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:35 am 
 

FormCritic wrote:
I advise lurking Dreadmire for a while on Ebay.  I paid a lot less than that for my copy.

The guy who sold me my copy had the ebay handle of Spellbindergames, but he claimed not to be associated with the author in any way...just selling off stock he got for cheap. (I had asked him to autograph the book for me.)  :shaking2:

The seller gave me a second chance offer at $3.99....which was my losing bid on a previous auction.


I bought mine from that Ebay seller, and iirc it was signed.  I did get two sales sheets with it I know (have them listed in my Excel file).

Course about the recent two books you bought..nah you don't want to know...and really I don't know anything wrong about them, you just set yourself up for me to respond that way.

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Post Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:51 am 
 

Plaag wrote:I bought mine from that Ebay seller, and iirc it was signed.

Signed by the Randy Richards or the person who actually wrote the material?


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Post Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:13 am 
 

FormCritic wrote:This is the first Legend of the Five Rings product I've acquired.  I am not clear on which publications were for Alderac's LOFR role-playing game and which ones were for the d20 system.  Like most everything Alderac does, this is an impressive book.  I haven't picked up anything from LOFR before because I associate the name with collectible card games...which all must die.  :evil:


Any book with the cover design found on the Rokugan book (the "coloured strip with cloth ties"-image along the spine) was either for the d20 version or was dual-statted for both d20 and L5R.

By my count the following books are d20-only:
Oriental Adventures
Rokugan
Creatures of Rokugan
Magic of Rokugan

While the following books are dual-statted for d20 and the second edition of L5R:
The Complete Exotic Equipment Guide
Fortunes and Winds
The Hidden Emperor
Way of the Daimyo
Way of the Ninja
Way of the Open Hand
Way of the Samurai
Way of the Shugenja
Way of the Thief
As well, any of the "Secrets of the ______" clan-books (Unicorn, Crab, Crane, Phoenix, Mantis, Lion, Dragon, Shadowlands), which have a different cover design, are also dual-statted.

I've also heard there was another dual-statted book (Bloodspeakers) put out by a 3rd party (ie: not AEG), but I know nothing of it so I can't confirm this.


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Post Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:45 pm 
 

. wrote:Signed by the Randy Richards or the person who actually wrote the material?


:D

I may have to try and dig this out now.

(edit: yep signed by Randy Richards on 1-29-06)

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Post Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:37 pm 
 

It is possible that Randy Richards allowed someone else to use his Ebay handle to sell off his remaining stock....?


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Post Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:06 pm 
 

Its a bit strange because on the Dreadmire message board they are happy to announce that the second printing of Dreadmire was sold out in May 2008.

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Post Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 11:49 pm 
 

Mars wrote:Its a bit strange because on the Dreadmire message board they are happy to announce that the second printing of Dreadmire was sold out in May 2008.


Perhaps "sold out" means sold for cheap to another distributor.


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Post Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:16 am 
 

. wrote:Signed by the Randy Richards or the person who actually wrote the material?


So I read through about half the Necro Games thread on this guy - he gets dumped by them for plagurism, etc., but eventually gets his book published (or self published, or whatever) - is the released version also full of IP violations?

  

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Post Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:39 am 
 

I haven't read through the Necro thread but from the Dreadmire forum, it sounds like he thinks the whole thing is a personal attack on him and doesn't believe than he has plagiarized so I'm sure the content is the same.  Also, it sounds like initially the publishing company was owned by someone else (whose only product seems to be Dreadmire) but later on Randy bought out the company.

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Post Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:31 am 
 

I do have to wonder about the reliability of the posts on the message board - most are from Randy himself.  Along with the claims of the second printing being sold out, he also mentions that the PDF on RPGnow sold over 1000 copies.  To me these numbers seem fairly high for a 3rd party item.

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Post Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:34 am 
 

Grug Greyskin wrote:
So I read through about half the Necro Games thread on this guy - he gets dumped by them for plagurism, etc., but eventually gets his book published (or self published, or whatever) - is the released version also full of IP violations?


Pretty much, but I don't think anyone was miffed enough to sue him (what kind of money would they get anyway?).  The author is well known in certain circles for taking others contributions and passing them off as his own. Years ago, on the Greytalk mailing list, often fans would post new monsters, character classes, etc.  Later they would often find their creations appearing in works of the author without attritbution, while he claimed they were his creations. This happened so many times it became a huge joke on the list (as big a joke as the author).  Sad thing is the guy seems creative and imaginative enough to get by with not "borrowing" others creations.

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Post Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:39 am 
 

So, is the book any good or not?
Never mind where the so-called author got the info.

Is the book worth chasing down or not?


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Post Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:08 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:
Pretty much, but I don't think anyone was miffed enough to sue him (what kind of money would they get anyway?).  The author is well known in certain circles for taking others contributions and passing them off as his own. Years ago, on the Greytalk mailing list, often fans would post new monsters, character classes, etc.  Later they would often find their creations appearing in works of the author without attritbution, while he claimed they were his creations. This happened so many times it became a huge joke on the list (as big a joke as the author).  Sad thing is the guy seems creative and imaginative enough to get by with not "borrowing" others creations.

Mike B.


I pretty much lived on the greytalk boards around then. This isn't as clear cut as it is coming out. There was a real struggle between fans back then and some of these people posting now on necro and enworld were part of one clique which formed in the old aol days that ended up on top, while RR didn't.

There are people who are going to review dreadmire and say it sucks just because they hate the author. They will also make claims of plagerism that don't actually exist. It is a great way to smear someone and put them on the defensive.

I haven't read the book. But I'd say formcritics review of dreadmire is unbiased, which I don't think is true of the other reviewers.

  

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Post Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 1:00 pm 
 

As an aside, I noticed that Serleran has over 7000 posts over on the NG boards - wholly crap that seems like a lot.

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Post Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 2:41 pm 
 

Mars wrote:As an aside, I noticed that Serleran has over 7000 posts over on the NG boards - wholly crap that seems like a lot.

That's because it's his living room. He chats to people who come visit.


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Post Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:57 pm 
 

JasonZavoda wrote:
I pretty much lived on the greytalk boards around then. This isn't as clear cut as it is coming out. There was a real struggle between fans back then and some of these people posting now on necro and enworld were part of one clique which formed in the old aol days that ended up on top, while RR didn't.

There are people who are going to review dreadmire and say it sucks just because they hate the author. They will also make claims of plagerism that don't actually exist. It is a great way to smear someone and put them on the defensive.

I haven't read the book. But I'd say formcritics review of dreadmire is unbiased, which I don't think is true of the other reviewers.


I wouldn't let anything bias me about the actual material of Dreadmire....it sounds like a pretty useful supplement, and I'll pick it up if I can get it cheap enough.  But I was reading Greytalk religiously back when Jason was posting there a lot, and I have to say where there is so much smoke there has to be fire.  People that always seem to end up on the wrong side of a dispute never get a lot of my sympathy, because I think there is usually a reason. RR never helped himself by some of his convoluted, harebrained explanations about why such and such ended up the way it was....being disengenuous about Spellbinder Games was just one episode, but there were plenty of others.  Jason views this one way but I have to say I view it another. However, I wouldn't tell anyone not to buy Dreadmire regardless, as it sounds like a pretty interesting supplement.  

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Post Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:05 pm 
 

Grug Greyskin wrote:So I read through about half the Necro Games thread on this guy - he gets dumped by them for plagurism, etc., but eventually gets his book published (or self published, or whatever) - is the released version also full of IP violations?


I read through most of the NG thread and some of the side treks too.  Randy Richards really comes off as a bitter nut.  The whole wiki thing really shows how delusional he is.  He tried to make a wiki article for Spellbinders and Dreadmire - I'm guessing to help sell his book.  However, the articles were deleted several times.  He then tried to delete the entry for Necromancer Games on the basis that since Spellbinders was not a significant company then neither is Necromancer Games.

One thing that has bothered me about Dreadmire is that "Spellbinder Games" is already an established business with productions of their own dating back to the early 80s.  So the new "Spellbinder Games" has actually taken an existing company name already within the industry.  Although it is a bit of an obscure one, I believe the owner of the original Spellbinder Games has been part of GAMA for years.

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Post Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 6:38 pm 
 

Gnat the Beggar wrote:So, is the book any good or not?
Never mind where the so-called author got the info.

Is the book worth chasing down or not?


Yes.  It is.


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Post Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:06 pm 
 

If you go to Dreadmire.com and look on their forums under Press Releases you can find Randy Richards' statement about the topic from 11/08.

I don't know internet stuff, but the page cannot be directly linked....?

I am not either an android with a positronic brain or that computer from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. so I cannot conduct a textual breakdown on a 224 page document in 8 point type.  I would suspect that the violated intellectual properties that Necromancer objected to mis-using are probably not in the final product.

I do know...without directly commenting on Spellbinder or Necromancer at all...that there are instances in fantasty role-playing where companies think they own intellectual rights to something.......but don't.

(One specific example would be Iron Crown Enterprises chastizing Dragon magazine for using a dwarf named Balin in one of their modules.  Tolkien picked up the name Balin from a work called the Elder Edda.  Iron Crown no more owned the name Balin the Dwarf than they owned the name Zeus God of Olympus.)

There are also instances where companies and authors have gotten into disuptes about the use of materials and who owns what.  

One thing I can say specifically about Randy Richards:  Dreadmire  obviously represented a huge body of work for him and years of his life and a considerable amount of money.  

The simple act of defending himself...and seeing Dreadmire through to completion and sale...does not automatically make him a crybaby or a nutcase.  

This is fun.  :D  Does anyone know any other D20 publications that have shady histories?  (And no sarcastic comments from you dudes with character sheets written on leaves or rocks!  :evil: )


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