What I like about 3rd edition D&D
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Post Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:43 am 
 

JohnGaunt wrote:If some players want to min/max (or whatever it's called nowadays) and emphasize the numbers, that's their choice.  If some players want to emphasize the roleplaying, then that's also their choice.  Hasn't this always been true?


well, thats not what i want to say... lets make an example: what happens if in 2020 soccer players start to use thier hands (it is not important the reason) and soccer rules are adapted to this new requirement (simply because the mass of the players act this way)? would you call it still soccer?

...the same should be applied to RPG and roleplay... just try to look to the new 3.5 DMG: could you pls tell me how many rows (yes, rows! not pages!) are dedicated to roleplay?


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Post Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:10 am 
 

The incorporation of house rules into the formal rules is one of the good things about third edition.

The breakdown of role-playing after the mid levels was always a problem with D&D in any rules set - although what constituted mid levels varied from campaign to campaign.

The level/hit points combat system has always been a weak spot in the game...and one could argue it was always a video game-like feature.  It used to be cited with scorn by players of other systems even back in the day.

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Post Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:54 pm 
 

***yawn*** Something I like or that is good about 3e? Well the pages from its multitude of books are great for starting fires in the fireplace... I like that so it must be a good thing...


:P

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Post Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:20 pm 
 

Maraudar wrote:***yawn*** Something I like or that is good about 3e? Well the pages from its multitude of books are great for starting fires in the fireplace... I like that so it must be a good thing...


:P

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Holy cow, you just gave me a freaking great idea.  :idea:    No more newspaper for packaging things up that I sell, at least for the time being.  I will just start using the pages from the few 3E books that I do own from now on.  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:


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Post Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:41 pm 
 

Maraudar wrote:***yawn*** Something I like or that is good about 3e? Well the pages from its multitude of books are great for starting fires in the fireplace... I like that so it must be a good thing...

:P

Maraudar


Holy cow, you just gave me a freaking great idea. Idea No more newspaper for packaging things up that I sell, at least for the time being. I will just start using the pages from the few 3E books that I do own from now on.


Come on now!  You're forgetting the first rule of having a strong opinion.  Contrary to popular belief  :D  , it is not "What are all the things I hate about this system/belief/political party/culture/game/person/etc."  Rather, it is "What is the other side of things?"

Anyone can criticize, but the truth is there are almost always valid arguments for anything in this world.  Now I'm not trying to wax too philosophical . . . I'm just saying that if you can't find a few positive things to say about 3E, then your opinion of it doesn't hold much weight.  It makes it appear as if you are "blinded" by your dislike . . . or that you've never really read to rules to begin with.

Keep in mind I say this all in good fun  :)   There have certainly been any number of threads trashing 3.0/3.5 and I won't dispute most . . . but there are a few good things . . .

If you've ever used any of the 3E rules as a regular "House Rule", you are basically saying that 3E has a better rule on that particular subject (small as it may be!)  8)


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Post Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:45 pm 
 

I was just kidding. :oops:


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Post Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:49 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:I was just kidding. :oops:


I know Brian . . .  :D

I did say:

Keep in mind I say this all in good fun  :D  


But . . . if you really feel guilty, then your homework assignment is to grab a 3E book and read it until you find a rule that you like and then post it here.  :P


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Post Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 2:19 pm 
 

Ok I'll fess up.. I also use it for toilet paper... Its softer than charmin  :twisted: .. kidding.

I confess. I play on occasion a 3e/3.5 Ravenloft campaign and MotRD campaign. If anything I actually think that for those settings 3e is a good system. It meshes well with the settings.

There you happy BtB  :P . I have bared my soul to the internet and will now have my grognard card revoked at the next meeting and maybe even be tarred and feathered. And let me tell you thats a lot or tar and feathers to use.  8O


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Post Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 2:26 pm 
 

Maraudar wrote:Ok I'll fess up.. I also use it for toilet paper... Its softer than charmin  :twisted: .. kidding.

I confess. I play on occasion a 3e/3.5 Ravenloft campaign and MotRD campaign. If anything I actually think that for those settings 3e is a good system. It meshes well with the settings.

There you happy BtB  :P . I have bared my soul to the internet and will now have my grognard card revoked at the next meeting and maybe even be tarred and feathered. And let me tell you thats a lot or tar and feathers to use.  8O


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I'm proud of you Maraudar . . . that must have been really hard to admit.  :D   Anyone else going to come out of the closet?

(Not me, of course, I've never actually played it . . . I was just trying to have fun with a different kind of thread.    But, I'm not here to judge.  :D )


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Post Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 2:35 pm 
 

JohnGaunt wrote:If some players want to min/max (or whatever it's called nowadays) and emphasize the numbers, that's their choice.  If some players want to emphasize the roleplaying, then that's also their choice.  Hasn't this always been true?

I don't agree that 3.x has kept the game alive, so much as evolved the game into something completely different.  It certainly has it's appeal, albeit largely among new players or those not intimately familiar with 1E.  It's certainly a different game, and in my opinion, it's not a roleplaying game at all, except in sense of the RPG misnomer that we routinely apply to video games for the sake of convenience.  I'm not saying that as a bad thing.  Hopefully people find it fun.

Slightly off-topic:

Recently, I had a long conversation with a guy from my old roleplaying group.  When I was around 10 years old, he used to play with us about once a week.  He wasn't what you'd call a "hardcore" roleplayer -- he was just there to have fun.  A few years later he quit the group.  Consequently, he never got "indoctrinated" into the early D&D/AD&D rules mindset.  (For the record, we played Mentzer D&D at that point, but that's not really important.)

Fast-forward 22 years to the present, and he's now hopelessly addicted to the "Baldur's Gate" series of video games.  He has even gone so far as to download character editing programs off the net and give his character maximum stats, etc.  That's a couple of steps further than min/maxing, but with the same general goal.  He makes a point of always playing a paladin, but from the rest of his tales I'm pretty sure he has no idea what alignment means.  And that's ok.  He has fun, and that's what matters.  

Now for the cool part.  This is not some teenager, but a 62-year old government accountant with a four-year old child sitting on his knee, enthralled.  It's my dad, in fact. :)

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Post Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 4:12 pm 
 

Beyondthebreach wrote:
Come on now!  You're forgetting the first rule of having a strong opinion.  Contrary to popular belief  :D  , it is not "What are all the things I hate about this system/belief/political party/culture/game/person/etc."  Rather, it is "What is the other side of things?"


OK, so how do you explain this:

Beyondthebreach wrote:

"Slugs! HE created slugs! They can't hear. They can't speak. They can't operate machinery.


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Post Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 4:41 pm 
 

Dude . . . it's a quote from Evil and the movie Time Bandits.  Check out my Sig Line on Dragonsfoot and you'll find I also have an understanding of Digital Watches.   8)


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Post Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 4:41 pm 
 

Something I like, a very minor combat rule, but a very clever one...

"Aid Another"

Basically you forego your action and assist a comrade in the fighting by acting as a distraction. +2 to their attack roll or +2 to their AC, and the bonuses stack for multiple "aiders"

A group of 0-level villagers could (conceivably) take down a 10th level fighter by acting in concert, something more-or-less impossible under the 1st/2nd ed AD&D rules.

  

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Post Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 5:23 pm 
 

Beyondthebreach wrote:Slugs! HE created slugs! They can't hear. They can't speak. They can't operate machinery.

'ware the Dire Slug!

  

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Post Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 5:34 pm 
 

I have had a a high school D&D group, a college D&D group and a post college D&D group, with some members crossing over to two or even all three.

One member of my high school AD&D group visited my post college AD&D group right before 2nd edition appeared.

He was dumbfounded by all the changes in the rules, new classes and the different way the game played...and it was the same game, but altered by the appearance of Unearthed Arcana and a few other books, as well as about 1000 house rules and Dragon magazine articles.

He felt like it was a whole different game.  It wasn't, it was just the same game with more rules.

My point is simply this:  3.5 edition really is AD&D with Unearthed Arcana and other books, combined with about 1000 house rules and Dragon magazine articles with an attempt at game balance and a consistent system.

In short:  3.5 is AD&D with fewer arguments.

Mark   8)


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Post Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 5:59 pm 
 

Maraudar wrote:***yawn*** Something I like or that is good about 3e? Well the pages from its multitude of books are great for starting fires in the fireplace... I like that so it must be a good thing...


:P

Maraudar


You can also tear the covers off and use them for packing modules.... :lol:

  


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Post Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:02 pm 
 

Beyondthebreach wrote:Dude . . . it's a quote from Evil and the movie Time Bandits.  Check out my Sig Line on Dragonsfoot and you'll find I also have an understanding of Digital Watches.   8)


But do you also understand digital computers.... :lol:

  


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Post Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:57 pm 
 

Okay, I've got one that's pure powergaming: Cleave and Great Cleave. I was actually introduced to these through Neverwinter Nights, and they are feats I almost always take when playing a fighter, barbarian, or some other melee-oriented character.

I understand that both feats are illogical and pure munchkin-ism, but I don't care. They are just that much fun. :)

Expect a rebuttal soon from DL39; Frank, the floor is yours.  :wink:

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