Would you buy original Castle Zagyg scans by Gary Gygax?
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Post Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:47 am 
 

http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19261 is a Dragonsfoot poll about whether folks would ever possibly be interested in buying a CD of scans of the original levels of Castle Greyhawk.  I thought some folks here might consider chiming in, given that some of us have been waiting about 30 years for the Castle :D


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Post Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 9:55 am 
 

Is this the Castle Zagyg project or the original Castle Greyhawk? There is obviously a difference between buying a CD of maps drawing in 2002 and ones drawing in 1976.


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Post Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:30 am 
 

grodog wrote:http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19261 is a Dragonsfoot poll about whether folks would ever possibly be interested in buying a CD of scans of the original levels of Castle Greyhawk.  I thought some folks here might consider chiming in, given that some of us have been waiting about 30 years for the Castle :D


         This falls under the unfortunate heading "waited so long for it, not really interested anymore" along with more American Perry Rhodan releases, a Jam reunion and CD, and a Hill Street Blues reunion special. I'd much rather just have the professionally printed version and go from there.  The fact it has taken 30 years to get this thing published is really quite ridiculous.  I see gigantic projects released everyday for RPGs and none of them took 30 years to complete.
    Let's put it this way, haven't even bought any of the recent Gygax Castle Zagyg releases yet.

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Post Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:58 am 
 

Badmike wrote:
         This falls under the unfortunate heading "waited so long for it, not really interested anymore" along with more American Perry Rhodan releases, a Jam reunion and CD, and a Hill Street Blues reunion special. I'd much rather just have the professionally printed version and go from there.  The fact it has taken 30 years to get this thing published is really quite ridiculous.  I see gigantic projects released everyday for RPGs and none of them took 30 years to complete.
    Let's put it this way, haven't even bought any of the recent Gygax Castle Zagyg releases yet.

Mike B.


i agree. if it was a released original set, then cool, but CD doesnt do it for me. i like the real deal.

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Post Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:00 am 
 

killjoy32 wrote:
i agree. if it was a released original set, then cool, but CD doesnt do it for me. i like the real deal.

Al


I think releasing it in printed form though may be cost prohibitive.  :)


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Post Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:05 am 
 

bclarkie wrote:
I think releasing it in printed form though may be cost prohibitive.  :)


well there you go then - i wont be getting it will i ? :D

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Post Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:13 am 
 

killjoy32 wrote:
i agree. if it was a released original set, then cool, but CD doesnt do it for me. i like the real deal.

Al


I'll go one better, I'd get it as an old-fashioned box set, with lots of maps and goodies and old-school cartography (nothing computer generated), plus lots of artwork by Roslof, Jeff Dee and Erol Otus.  If being released on CD/pdf is the only way to go, I guess that's ok, but as Kill said I won't be buying one.

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Post Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:47 pm 
 

Large scale PDFs have a great problem. They need to spool to a printer, and even a high resolution scan sent to an A4 printer often results in a spool file too big for most PCs tp handle.

So you're left with the option of downsampling the map scans to 150dpi or even 72dpi, and while you won't see the difference on the screen, the resulting print quality would be very low.

So is the intent that the end user of the CD would only use the CD as a reference material, on screen only, or are we able to print.

I am presently working on something for RJK of a similar nature, and the scan at 600 dpi in jpeg format is well over 600Mb. But 600dpi is needed to produce a professional quality print.

I would be most interested to see what quality product you are able to produce. One only needs to look at practically ever scanned PDF WoTC released, and the atrocious Ares Archive to see how badly these things can be marketted.

I would be willing to buy something if you could prove the quality of the product was the best on the market. If its just like all the rest of the PDFs available, then sell them for $10 on RPGNow and Paizo.


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Post Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 1:11 pm 
 

For me it would definitely depend on the price tag.  Monte Cook's Ptolus looks very interesting.

http://www.montecook.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?ptolus

But $120 is quite a sum for a 672 page book, a CD-ROM and other "goodies".

I would much rather have a nice box set with some archival quality maps done up similar to the way Decipher did the Maps of Middle-Earth for the Lord of the Rings RPG.  Fifty bucks would be about the highest amount I would pay for something like that.

  

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Post Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 1:59 pm 
 

Kingofpain89 wrote:For me it would definitely depend on the price tag.  Monte Cook's Ptolus looks very interesting.

http://www.montecook.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?ptolus

But $120 is quite a sum for a 672 page book, a CD-ROM and other "goodies".

I would much rather have a nice box set with some archival quality maps done up similar to the way Decipher did the Maps of Middle-Earth for the Lord of the Rings RPG.  Fifty bucks would be about the highest amount I would pay for something like that.


I think several of the box sets released by TSR in the heydey are of superior quality and exactly what I would want to see...nothing wrong with the maps or presentation of Ruins of Undermountain, Ruins of Zhentil Keep, Spellbound, From the Ashes or several others.  The Decipher maps would be going above and beyond, I wouldn't even have to have something that good.  And yes $50 would be my upper price....the World's Largest Dungeon was $100, and it was way overpriced, and should have been a boxed set anyway.

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Post Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:05 pm 
 

grodog wrote:http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19261 is a Dragonsfoot poll about whether folks would ever possibly be interested in buying a CD of scans of the original levels of Castle Greyhawk.  I thought some folks here might consider chiming in, given that some of us have been waiting about 30 years for the Castle :D


I wouldn't buy a CD but I would buy a Chaosium-style monograph.
CDs decay much faster than paper over time.

  

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Post Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 7:07 pm 
 

I would certainly buy a CD.  But, I would not pay for an overpriced CD.  

Putting it out in pdf form should mean not paying a premium price.

If the project had to be overpriced (out of the $20 range), possibly for ego reasons, or just to profiteer, I would not buy it.

And, I am one of the guys who plans to acquire the Castle Zagyg works...so that should give perspective. (See my review of the unfortunate price of the Yggsburgh intallment of Castle Zagyg.)

Mark   8)


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Post Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 7:12 pm 
 

grodog wrote:http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19261 is a Dragonsfoot poll about whether folks would ever possibly be interested in buying a CD of scans of the original levels of Castle Greyhawk.  I thought some folks here might consider chiming in, given that some of us have been waiting about 30 years for the Castle :D

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Not interested.



  


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Post Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 7:40 pm 
 

Kingofpain89 wrote:I would much rather have a nice box set with some archival quality maps done up similar to the way Decipher did the Maps of Middle-Earth for the Lord of the Rings RPG.  Fifty bucks would be about the highest amount I would pay for something like that.


I've heard several comments along these lines, and probably should have set the poll up to include a CD option as well as a print option, but didn't think of that last night.  

Thanks for the comments folks! :D


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Post Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 8:24 pm 
 

Sorry, don't want to get a 15-yard flag for piling on, but ... not interested. That's not to say I don't wish you luck with the project, though. So, uh ... good luck! :)

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I have a gut feeling we are going to be seeing a plethora of such products in the rest of 2006 and all of 2007. We have a lot of industry figures, most are still living ... and I just can't afford to be paying for people's names. I'll have to get my gaming history in other places, I guess.

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Post Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2006 8:33 pm 
 

Xaxaxe wrote:I have a gut feeling we are going to be seeing a plethora of such products in the rest of 2006 and all of 2007. We have a lot of industry figures, most are still living ... and I just can't afford to be paying for people's names. I'll have to get my gaming history in other places, I guess.


worth it for the right price tho X, know what i mean?

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Post Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 5:33 am 
 

Apparently, there are some who want it anyway they can get it. I fear that if it came out on pdf for instance (on a cd or internet d/l), there is a chance that after everyone who is interested flips $100 (whatever it will cost), that it will be copied & distributed all over the place.   After a year that $100 investment  is worthless because no one on e-bay would buy a copy that can be had anywhere.  You just donated to the community.  Not necessarily a bad thing.  Furthermore, once the notes are out I think it will take a little of the motivation out of getting the completed version out, in the very least in a timely manner.  I could be wrong on this last point.  I think it all hinges on the quality of medium that this comes out on.  Something that will maintain some of it's value even if the notes are available electronically.

I opened my stupid mouth over at DF on this and the response here seems more along the lines of reality.  My points were refuted and yet later some of the same posted about having the notes made into a nice book. :?   Oh well, different strokes...walk away from the flame!

BTW, have any of you Acaeum long timers ever see a "copy" of notes (not finished product) sell before?  I think Grodog has an interesting poll.  If there ever was a product that could I think this would be it.

  


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Post Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:41 am 
 

Cimmerian wrote:I opened my stupid mouth over at DF on this and the response here seems more along the lines of reality.  My points were refuted and yet later some of the same posted about having the notes made into a nice book. :?  


I probably should have included a print option with prices, too, but didn't thinkof that before, Cimmerian :(  

Cimmerian wrote:BTW, have any of you Acaeum long timers ever see a "copy" of notes (not finished product) sell before?  I think Grodog has an interesting poll.  If there ever was a product that could I think this would be it.


Paul Stormberg has made a cottage industry out of selling unpublished manuscripts and notes recently, though he's not the only one (the burntwire brothers sold the original ms. for AC4 The Book of Marvellous Magic, for example, and Frank Menzter continues to sell the odd prepub RPGA stuff from time to time, in addition to the original ToEE ms. [sold at GenCon last year, and then reacquired and returned to Gary at LGGC a few months ago]).  So, there's definitely a market.


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Post Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:52 am 
 

Cimmerian wrote:I fear that if it came out on pdf for instance (on a cd or internet d/l), there is a chance that after everyone who is interested flips $100 (whatever it will cost), that it will be copied & distributed all over the place.  


I agree that in the real world this would be a very real issue that could, potentially, kill a product immediately.  Even if you watermarked the scans, used DRM or other annoying-the-user software security, at best you'll delay the appearance of the cracked files on P2P networks.  

I think that the best way to safeguard against devaluation for a (theoritical) product like this is for the data itself to be just one component in the value of the set.  As someone pointed out in the DF thread, the Dragon Magazine .pdf files are available all over the place on the net, but the original Archive CDs still sell for quite a bit.  So, having a professionally-printed CD with packagaing, etc. is one step to preserve value for the purchaser/collector.  In addition, printing a signed/numbered limited edition may help, as would a high-quality product (printed on fine archival paper, for example).  While a scan could still capture the information and details (nothing would prevent that), that then becomes the key differentiation between reading an ERB "Princess of Mars" text file from Project Gutenberg vs. holding a first edition with dust jacket in your hand.  Some folks will certainly be willing to settle for the text file, but you can't put it on your shelf, or enjoy the experience of reading it nearly as much as you can a real book.  

I certainly welcome more input from folks here on these kinds of issues!


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Post Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2006 3:58 pm 
 

Well, in any event I sure am interested and hope it comes to fruition.  Like I said earlier I would be glad to just have the notes or the finished product for that matter, irregardless of how it is decided upon.

  
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