Tabletop Warriors Fantasy Adventures
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Post Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 11:10 am 
 

beasterbrook wrote:Actually after saysing that you have 988 left you might just want to set a price rather than chuck one up on ebay, I would like one as well and I'm sure you could prob sell at least 50 odd easily..

Brette:)




You can do both, set a price and put them up on ebay. I know it is a slow way to start an auction but if you ask a minimum bid that you don't mind getting then you never end up disappointed in selling on ebay.



Also, not every collector reads this site! I can hardly believe it myself, but it is true.

  

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Post Posted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:06 pm 
 

Segal wrote:Evening Mike:

That booklet is my work that was created in 1983-1984.  The inital print run was about 1000 copies, most of which I still have :P    It was never distributed except for a dozen copies that I gave to an old Friend who owned Nan's Toys and Games in Houston Texas.

Darla Hallmark did all the artwork, I paid her $120 for 12 pages of orignal art which she created in about 2 evenings from a short phone conversation we had.  I typed the whole manual on an electic typewriter that I rented from an Office Supply (I didnt own a personal computer that had word processing capabilities until 1985).   Its fairly obvious that there was not much spell checking or editing.  

Most of the material came from my homebrewed campaign that began in 1976 or 77.  Some of the material was used in a gaming tournament that was held in 1979.   Much of the world was recreated using Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2, and that server was open to the public for about 5 years under the name of Shroudworld.

I am happy someone appreciated the work, however crude it might be.


So great you found the Acaeum!  Thanks for the info about the item, it adds a really cool history to it, and it's DEFINITELY old school related by your description.  Crude yeh, but full of old school greatness!  This also explains why I've never seen/heard of another copy.  Are you still in Texas?  PM sent, reply when you get a chance.

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 5:03 pm 
 

I'd buy a fewq if they're going up for sale.


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Post Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:57 pm 
 

This will also be posted in the Classifieds:

Great news for collectors of old-school non TSR D&D items....Tabletop Warriors are back!!!!

Virtually unreleased, these old style gaming booklets were printed up in limited qualities back in 1984 by Lane Renfro. The booklets contain a setting and scenarios based on Lane's OD&D campaign of the late 70's ('76-'79).  Within the pages of "Tabletop Warriors: City and Adventures" lay the basis of a beginning generic FRP campaign for levels 1-4 in the land of R'Lane.  Included are two pull out maps of the land of R'Lane and the city of Claybank Greystone; descriptions of the city and inhabitants, with background of the city's history and politics; eight old school dungeon adventures; and "Lore of the Land", which includes new classes, random tables, rules variations, and other items of interest.  The 100+ page booklet is very reminiscent of the original D&D or Arduin Grimoire supplements.  A collector will find the information very old school in presentation and tone, and the dungeons can easily be converted to any BFRP system.

A high point is the excellent artwork of a then-unknown Darla Hallmark; Darla is now a well-known fantasy and fetish artist and created some striking images for this self-published gaming supplement. It is probably one of the most professionally illustrated small print publications of the era! (If interested please check out her website at http://www.unseengallery.com)

The original print run of this supplement was 500 copies; only 50 or so were ever actually distributed.  Today less than 200 exist, the rest being lost or destroyed through the last 25 years.  The remaining copies are going to be available exclusively through Badmike3Books, through an arrangement with the original creator and author Lane Renfro.  

At some point, copies will be available through ebay auctions; these copies will be signed by the author Lane Renfro (and hopefully by Darla).  Later, copies may be available either through the Acaeum classifieds or in my Ebay store for a set amount, to be determined later.  At a later date, multiple copy purchases for overseas buyers will be considered.  Right now, the only copies available will be slightly imperfect copies (see below).

This supplement will not be reprinted; when the remaining copies are sold, that's it!  This pretty much qualifies as a once in a lifetime opportunity, as few items like this, original examples of old school D&D gaming from the "golden age" of the late 70s-early 80s,  still exist to be discovered.


Guys;

Here is going to be the way the items are going to be rolled out:

Starting right before the holidays, if all goes as planned, we will begin auctioning signed and numbered copies.  These copies will be signed by both author Lane Renfro AND artist Darla Hallmark, and numbered to show their limited status…the final total will be in the 10-20 range.  These are the only ones I will ever get signed thus, so they are extremely limited compared to the entire amount (the total of 200 or so that survive), less than 10% of the whole.  I have no expectation for a price on these, so it should be very interesting to see what happens.  Just by comparison, existing copies have as low or lower print runs than many other comparable items from that era…and the distribution has been non-existent until now.  These will be offered no more than one a month for the next year or so, sometimes less than that…I expect to sell probably 10 of these in the next twelve months at most, it will probably be less.  Lane and I both are taking the long view on this…there will be no hurry to part with these!

At the same time, unsigned and un-numbered copies will be available here and through my ebay store (badmike3books) starting in November/December.  Final price will be determined, I suspect they will be in the $50+ range but do NOT hold me to that.  Once again, when these are gone, they are gone…Lane is not going to reprint these.

In the "Let's make a deal" department: Lane has a few of these with small flaws (they have been sitting in boxes for 25 years, and stuff happens).  The flaws are virtually insignificant, but prevent the items from being Near Mint or better.  Mostly this translates to a small ink smear on the cover or some slight spine wear or roll.  I have a very limited number of these, and no idea how many are slightly worn in this way (from what I've seen so far about one in five are in this condition).  I am willing to take offers on these…one offer per person, please, and you can only win ONE (Please let other collectors have a shot).  I am going to take the best offers for these I get by October 31st (Halloween) and then ship them out.  Right now, I only have FIVE in this condition.  Below are the items with the flaws; best bid gets first choice, and so on.  

In a way, this may determine the asking price for the remaining copies.  First come, first served, and just to let you know, I have NO idea what NM unmarked copies will sell for in the future…you may get a deal here, you may get it in the shorts, but you will get a copy, perhaps at a bargain if these end up being collectible.  You can take a chance and just wait for nicer copies to come up…but these WILL be the first copies sold and shipped, I'll get these five out immediately after payment, and honestly, their "wear" is virtually negligible.

As a bonus, I have a "ceiling" in mind.  If you hit the ceiling, the copy is yours immediately. I hope I haven't made this to be too complicated...but the main purpose is to get these out to Acaeum folk FIRST,  the ones most interested anyway, and determine a sale price for the nicer copies.

At this point I am not taking orders for multiples copies….this may change in the future, particularly for international customers.  Right now we are just testing the waters so to speak….a lot depends on the interest in this item, if there is any at all!  Thanks everyone.

Mike B.

Copy #1:Sight ink stain in upper spine corner

Copy #2: Ditto, with slight top edge wear

Copy #3 Small ink mark at bottom of cover

Copy #4 Very, very tiny spine tear

Copy #5: Larger than normal amount of spine roll; could probably be flattenered out with time and patience

Image


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Last edited by Badmike on Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:30 pm 
 

In the fine tradition of Dragonsfoot...

PM en route! :)


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Post Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:36 pm 
 

thanks for details + setting that up mike. interested to know about plans for remainder if cannot sell 300+ at $50+

  

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Post Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:09 am 
 

Rakeesh sah Tarna wrote:thanks for details + setting that up mike. interested to know about plans for remainder if cannot sell 300+ at $50+

good point - just did the maths - 15000 (potential) dollars - I don't suppose many game designers make that much dough on one product. (all hypothetical of course... 8O  :D )


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Post Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:14 am 
 

would probably be happier if knew game designers could make good money for new products to be honest as helps to keep hobby going :) :)
well ok maybe not $50 a time but is not far off what gw charges no?? ^^

  

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Post Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:29 am 
 

Rakeesh sah Tarna wrote:well ok maybe not $50 a time but is not far off what gw charges no?? ^^


quite right - Didn't I read somewhere that Rick Priestley has a servant to wipe his bum and light his cigars with 20 pound notes? (No I actually just made that up - but the truth should never get in the way of a flippant comment!!)


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Post Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:34 am 
 

Badmike wrote:Final price will be determined, I suspect they will be in the $50+ range but do NOT hold me to that.  Once again, when these are gone, they are gone…Lane is not going to reprint these.


$50 seems a bit high knowing that there are 400 copies out there.  Its probably a price I would ask if there were only maybe 20 copies - even then, 20 copies at $50 might be a bit of a tough sell.

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Post Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:39 am 
 

Mars wrote:
$50 seems a bit high knowing that there are 400 copies out there.  Its probably a price I would ask if there were only maybe 20 copies - even then, 20 copies at $50 might be a bit of a tough sell.


Point well made.

I will say though, that if I were to do a deal like this with anyone, it would be with Mike. I think that this will sell well because of Mike's reputation here - this is a very good thing.


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Post Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:01 am 
 

15000 (potential) dollars - I don't suppose many game designers make that much dough on one product.


Not likely. Assuming what I've heard from many others in the current industry, regarding royalties at 3-5% of retail price, that's a hell of a lot of total sales to reach $15k... so, let's look at some of the other common writer structures (in my experience): flat rate payment -- get $x regardless of what is sold (not going to get $15k); paid per word, usually at 3 - 10 cents (yes, that's right) if you're a "big name" or maybe even 1/2 cent if you're an unknown... so you're looking at something nearing the size of the OED (again, not likely to get $15k)... so, yeah, there might be a very few people to earn that amount, but they're likely getting salary and not freelancing.

But, that's just based on my own first-hand experience.


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Post Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:13 am 
 

Mars wrote:
$50 seems a bit high knowing that there are 400 copies out there.  Its probably a price I would ask if there were only maybe 20 copies - even then, 20 copies at $50 might be a bit of a tough sell.


I'm not going to agree or disagree, as the market will decide. I will say 400 copies is much less than a lot of recent items that are, IMO, not in anyways as interesting or unique as this item.  I guess this is where we will find out if there are just a handful of old school collectors, or many more than we think, who will want one of these.  If these do not sell at the listed price then obviously I have completely misread the market; this is one of the reasons for this "early sale", to both gauge interest and examine pricing (as NO baseline exists for such a product, unique as it is).  At any rate they will be priced accordingly.  I owe it to Lane et al to get the best price possible for his product; he deserves it for hanging on to these over two decades. If that best price is lower than I think at this time, I am not pigheaded enough to ruin something nice for Lane. I won't do that.  Anyone who has dealt with me knows me better than that (I hope).  

I will say that in terms of quality again IMO it is quite good for it's type. I could name a few collectible products (cough Dundracon cough) that while selling for quite a bit are really not even a speck on this item for quality, usefullness, and historical purposes.

Guys, I have loved this item since the moment I found it, it's a simple as that. and want as many collectors as possible to have one.  It deserves a better fate and now miraculously it will.  If this item had a short blurb in Heroic Worlds, believe me 400 copies would not have been enough to satiate demand, and they would have the collectiblity cachet of at LEAST a Wilmark Dynasty, Ironhoof Highlands, or Silverdawn item (although personally I feel Tabletop Warriors is superior to all these).

I'm going to go on record as saying I have no idea why a Fazzlewood sells for $1000+ (it's a tournament that became.....O1?  Are you kidding me???????)).  I don't understand the attraction of a lot of tournament stuff, fanzines, homebrew or self published stuff either.  Why did a runic copy of the PPP items go for so much NOW, when their purpose is no longer valid? Obviously, someone values the stuff if it keeps selling to respected collector types.  

The prices I quoted were just shots in the dark.  So you never know if you wait maybe you get a deal. Really the early "sales" are a fun way to draw attention to the items, hopefully discussions of the item will get around and interest in the items will rise.  That's the point. Perhaps if you wait two years you'll snag a copy for $10, that's great, perserverance does pay.  But once again, to START OUT at ten bucks a copy seems quite self defeating when there is really no established worth here.  And, in my judgement of many years collecting, I think $10-$15 is a mite low.  But I could be very wrong, we'll see.  

To put it in perspective, how many copies of the Maze of Zayene modules exist (in shrink wrap, no less)?  Does anyone else remember when $50 each for these wasn't a stretch? And now Nobleknight has these for under $20 bucks a set?  I don't think he's being accused of being an opportunistic scumbag when he sold them for $100 a set instead, merely that he's now catering to the saturated market (doesn't everyone have their set by now?).  Now that doesn't mean I think we will be using Tabletop Warriors for drink coasters in the future, but I won't disagree that the price may go down in the fututre depending on the market.  This isn't a fly by night, anyone who knows me knows I am in this for the long haul.

Honestly the money is secondary to the enjoyment I hope this brings collectors.

At any rate, I thank everyone for their interest.  

Mike B.


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"The Acaeum hates fun" Sir Allen
"I had a collecting emergency" Nogrod
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Last edited by Badmike on Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 4:16 pm 
 

Guys;

Lane informed me of some very important info today, and I have made changes to the above announcement listing to reflect this.  Basically, Lane located the pertinent printing and distribution info in black and white, which differs from what he remembered earlier (I don't blame him, it was 25 years ago).The most important info:

The entire print run was not 1000 copies, but instead, 500. There are NOT almost 400 copies left...there are approximately 200 copies (an actual count was made instead of an estimation).  About 25% of these are not in NM shape, having some fading or browning.

About 50 copies, not a dozen, were sold at Origins '84, as well as given to various bookstores on consignment at that time.  So that makes quite a few more out there than originally thought. The fact none of these (except for my original copy) seems to have popped up in the last couple decades could mean someone is sitting on a few.  You would have to figure at least a couple are in the hands of some old school gamers in Texas (the ones that sold at Origins, perhaps....BTW for those that don't know Origins '84 was in Dallas).  

Half the copies were given to a business partner of Lanes who either disposed of them or lost them, which accounts for there being less than 200 now.  It's not outside the realm of possibility some of these copies survived also, in any case we are still at or under the original quoted figure, at the very least. I will update my posting in the classifieds to reflect this, as you can guess we are not trying to mislead anyone here, only let everyone know a fair and true accounting so you can determine value for yourself.

I would ask anyone emailing Lane directly wanting to buy the books from him, to please not do so, per Lane. Right now we are only handling sales through badmike3books. This is so as to be fair to everyone, we don't want anyone thinking they can "end run" the process.  Hopefully, sooner rather than later, the books will be readily available and everyone who wants one can get a copy.  Thanks so much for understanding!

Mike B.


Last edited by Badmike on Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:02 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Post Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:41 pm 
 

These are a pretty rare example of my early published artwork, as well. In fact, it may be the very first appearance of my illustrations in print.  

I have lost a lot of records from that time, and my memory is rather vague.  That was before I quit drinking and doing drugs.

Here's some things I have done more recently.

Image

Image


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Post Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:06 pm 
 

And in case you didn't catch the website earlier...Darla's work is at:

http://www.unseengallery.com

and

http://www.kinkyspot.com

Sites may not be work safe!!!  :wink:

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:50 am 
 

I love the second one named "Seeress".

I do prefer it in B&W instead of color though.

  

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Post Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:09 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:And in case you didn't catch the website earlier...Darla's work is at:

http://www.unseengallery.com

and

http://www.kinkyspot.com

Sites may not be work safe!!!  :wink:

Let me be clear: the sites are NSFW.  One is obviously NSFW.

Anyone want to chip in to get BadMike a print of "Butch"?   :D

  


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Post Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 2:39 pm 
 

I did some checking with someone with a better memory than mine.  These ARE the first appearance of my illustrations in print.

So, besides their collectible value as RPGs, I think I can be not too terribly vain and say they have value as art collectibles as well.

I think the only other truly collectible example of my artwork would the the one children's book I illustrated in the 90's.


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Post Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:48 pm 
 

original dragon #37 is favorite of mine + must be collectible darlene but above $1000 limit am sure ;) ;)
good to have you here + thanks for your work + that check on first commercial commish. does help to know!!

  
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