Kalifax update
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Post Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:48 pm 
 

MShipley88 wrote:Someone help me here.  I watched the auction unaware that Deadlord was the seller....I put it on my watch list to see the fireworks.

If Kalifax is a unique item, doesn't that pretty much make it just someone's dungeon with a slightly nicer cover?

I have a pre-pub item from a nascent company called Master Gamer's Guild, from back in the early 80's.  I doubt it ever saw publication in more than two or three copies.  Is that valuable?

Mark   8)


How many pages is it?  Is it any good?

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Post Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:51 pm 
 

MShipley88 wrote:Someone help me here.  I watched the auction unaware that Deadlord was the seller....I put it on my watch list to see the fireworks.

If Kalifax is a unique item, doesn't that pretty much make it just someone's dungeon with a slightly nicer cover?

I have a pre-pub item from a nascent company called Master Gamer's Guild, from back in the early 80's.  I doubt it ever saw publication in more than two or three copies.  Is that valuable?

Mark   8)


What if you ran up 50 copies of Kalifax and started selling them for 10 bucks each?  I'm not saying you should do this or anything, just playing devil's advocate.  Would anyone really care? I don't want to turn this into a time waster copyright discussion, but when it comes to "unique" items that are out of print (or in this case apparantly never even printed), is there any protocol at all?

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Post Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:03 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:
What if you ran up 50 copies of Kalifax and started selling them for 10 bucks each?  I'm not saying you should do this or anything, just playing devil's advocate.  Would anyone really care? I don't want to turn this into a time waster copyright discussion, but when it comes to "unique" items that are out of print (or in this case apparantly never even printed), is there any protocol at all?

Mike B.


I guess my question has to do with the comb binding and the faux parchment cover.

If those things were absent...and the item in existed in only 3 or 4 "pre-publication" copies...wouldn't that make it an amateur publication with no real value?

For instance...I have some of Deadlord's dungeons downloaded.  If I printed them on slightly impressive paper...would they automatically acquire collector value?

I am not just being snotty.  I'm genuinely interested in why Kalifax is valuable as compared to other amateur publications.

Mark   8)


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Post Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:09 pm 
 

In the UK, you could publish Kalifax if you considered it 'abandoned' by the original writer.

If you were challanged by the original writer, you would have to cease publication. If you could not demonstrate that you 'took all reasonable steps' to trace and/or contact the copyright owner, you would also have to pay damages.

So, in a nutshell, if you tought the original copyright holder was not likely to show up, and if you were willing to make amends if he did, you could publish anything you wanted in the UK, and you wouldn't be breaching copyright law.


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Post Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:10 pm 
 

When you get into "making copies of items to sell" this really is just a copyright argument.  If you are going to make copies why not print out some of the Wee Warriors items?  If you really wanted to do this and make some money there is probably a good chance that the real copyright holders will not come after you because of the cost they would incur just to stop you.

One difference with Kalifax is that it really does have a limited number of copies that are even out there to make copies of.  

Similarly why does Booty and the Beasts or Lair of the Spider Mother/Lord Farricks Keep or the John Scott Clegg stuff sell for upwards of $100+ each?

Like most of these, the book is rare, seems interesting, has sex appeal (a nice cover) and looks like a good amount of work.  Also for Kalifax, it helped that Frank vouched for it rather highly.

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Post Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 4:23 pm 
 

Also, presumably these items have gone through a certain amount of editting  and polishing.  

Although I do have to say that it is anyones guess why some items sell better than others.  A think another good example is the Infinity Limited items The Black Vial and Dungeon of King Lout.

Both of these items are rare, fairly short and have notoriously bad reviews of being a waste of money at their original selling price.  But on Ebay, the seem to sell very well.  The last Black Vial sold for about $160.  I think Dungeon of King Lout has been in the $100-$120 range.

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Post Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:09 pm 
 

How large a print run do some of these items have?   :?

Not saying that Kalifax is not cool, by the way.   :D

Mark   8)


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Post Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:44 pm 
 

MShipley88 wrote:How large a print run do some of these items have?   :?

Not saying that Kalifax is not cool, by the way.   :D

Mark   8)


That is an excellent question and I have no idea.  

I was chatting with the Board Enterprises guy which is a small company that produced a set of rules called LegendQuest.  They had a rules book, book of wishes and 12 modules.   Their production was around 1000 copies of each the first and second edition the rules book, 2000 for book of wishes and the modules which look a lot less professionally done were printed in batches of 50 at a time as need be.

With some of these other modules for D&D, they really don't show up on ebay very much and its anyone's guess as to how many were initially printed, how many were sold and then what happened to the rest of them?  Were they destroyed, did they sit in a basement and got musty or are they safely stored somewhere to be found.

With the Clegg items, the two modules appear 2 or 3 times a year but it has been mentioned that Clegg still has a bunch.  I have not been able to contact him and I've tried a couple of different routes.

The Infinity Limited items show up maybe once a year.  They sent out copies to a few magazines/fanzines for review but their reviews were always bad (at least the three that I have seen) so maybe they didn't sell well.

I think that there is a fair sized community that looks for these types of items but one of the biggest reasons you get bargains or they sell for cheap is that most people do not know what they are looking for because they don't know what the items are.  If you look at the auction history of some of the TSR rares on this site, 15 years ago they did not sell for much because most people didn't know to look for them.  If you ask people who have collecting nonTSR D&D items they will probably say that the market is currently at an all time high and that they remember buying a lot of these items for $1-$20.  

Personally, I think that the nonTSR market is still on the rise and that places like Afterglow (1 and 2) (and Planet Mars when I get it up and going - plug plug plug :) ) will only drive the market higher.

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Post Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:21 pm 
 

According to what I was told by the other owner, it was sold at GenCon. I would hazard a guess that the two writers sold it personally, given its scarcity and the presence of a company name. It also mentions a second item, but I would imagine that was slated for a future date, IF Kali sold well. Since it is in an older-style format, I wouldn't be surprised if only a handful of copies sold. And it was long before the collecting craze.
The possibility does exist that the original publishers kept whatever copies they printed. But even if that happened, I am sure it is a million times rarer than DG, for example. And since it is looseleaf, it would be a bit more difficult to keep intact, even if one wished to.
I don't know what the original price was, but perhaps it was too high to sell many modules. And I would think that the looseleaf nature of it might put off many gamers, who tend to prefer book forms.
It's such a weird item. It is strongly reminiscent of a JG item, but it occurred to me earlier today where I have seen a similar format: Thieves Guild. It has a strange numbering system for the pages that are actually numbered.
The encounters are fleshed-out with regards to NPC personalities and tendencies, but the statistics are usually left open. A mage shopkeeper, for example, might be described as "the second or third most powerful in the city", but no specific level is given. This is definitely my preferred format, since I like to handle details like that myself, and it makes it virtually impossible for players who read a copy of it to know exactly how powerful creatures/NPC's are. It is very generic in form, and I can't think of a single game system it couldn't fit into.
One neat thing: it uses what I believe is a steel piece valuation system. Things are listed as being worth "X  st." I THINK Darksun used that as well.
I am still awaiting details on whether the other copy is a "rough cut", amongst other things.
Mark, it will take you DAYS to go through this, if you decide to. It's enormous, over 200 pages. Granted a lot of them are maps, but it is still a monster.


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Post Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:41 pm 
 

Pound for pound I think its a great deal.

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Post Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:22 pm 
 

200 pages...wow   8O ...who are the authors?


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Post Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:57 am 
 

Speaking of picking up LegendQuest modules on the cheap....



http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0000193942


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Post Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:51 am 
 

Incredible, Marlith...nice one.


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Post Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 3:35 am 
 

Mars wrote:I was chatting with the Board Enterprises guy which is a small company that produced a set of rules called LegendQuest.  They had a rules book, book of wishes and 12 modules.   Their production was around 1000 copies of each the first and second edition the rules book, 2000 for book of wishes and the modules which look a lot less professionally done were printed in batches of 50 at a time as need be.


Theyalso produced a magazine/zine/news letter  thing for their game as well about the same time as the first ed of the game I believe(I have the first issue of this, unknown if they made anymore)

Brette:)

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Post Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:45 am 
 

Marlith wrote:Speaking of picking up LegendQuest modules on the cheap....


** expired eBay auction **




I saw that lot, didn't bid on it since I wasn't really sure what the quality of the LQ materials was:  what's your opinion Marlith and others?


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Post Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:57 am 
 

grodog wrote:
I saw that lot, didn't bid on it since I wasn't really sure what the quality of the LQ materials was:  what's your opinion Marlith and others?


I honestly have not given them the attention they deserve. Spending too much time with Bard's Gate.


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Post Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:20 pm 
 

Marlith wrote:
I honestly have not given them the attention they deserve. Spending too much time with Bard's Gate.


The PC game or Necromancer Games supplement?


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Post Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:48 pm 
 

I remember selling my copy of Kalifax on eBay a few years back.  I don't remember it reaching a particularly high price ($30-$40, maybe).  Anyone here remember buying it from eBay seller Otherworld1 in the UK?

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