What make a collection a pedigree?
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Post Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:45 pm 
 

red_bus wrote:
Marlith wrote:What would you rather have a fairly minty T1st PHB I bought new or one that was in good condition that could be authenticated to have been used by Frank when he was running the Great Bugbear Hunt for the first time?


Minty 1st print every time.  No offence intended, but for me it is the items themselves rather than who used them.  Yes, the history is interesting and adds to he value - but not significantly.


     I agree! Once again, a good example is the Mile High Comic Collection.  The collector was just another guy, but the conditions under which he kept his collection (they were basically Near Mint across the board), the amount of comics, and the key issues involved, are part of the reason collectors pay more for the "Mile High" copy of Amazing Spiderman #1 over other copies.
    I'll refer back to my previous post; most knowledgable collectors will view authentication and provenance with high suspicion.  IMO it's NOT a reason to spend substantially more on an item, because as an investment it typically won't add cachet to the item in the future as the line of provenance gets blurier, whereas condition will ALWAYS be a visible indicator of how valuable the item is.  
  I'll give an example: I have an unopened copy of Divine Right board game that has belonged to both Gary Gygax AND Frank Mentzer (Frank bought a case of them from Gary in an online auction, I bought my copy from Frank soon afterward).  It's a really neat item to own, I will probably never sell it, but how on earth would I go about authenticating this item?  Signed letters from Gary and Frank?  A photo of Frank and Gary standing next to the box?  Copies of the correspondance? How can anyone buying it from me in the future, even if I HAD all those forms of authentication, be 100% sure it's the same Divine Right game?  
   Every single time, unless the item is a manuscript or unique work or the line of provenance is ONE (i.e., you can buy it directly from the celebrity), I would go with exceptional condition over provenance in terms of collecting or investing in collectibles.
    That's not to say items of provenance aren't fun little keepsakes.  Some of the Acaeum auctions the last few years have had oddball little items that really would appeal to me (I personally thought the 1st PHB sold, and Kuntz's dice were fun little items). But they should never command substantial prices over mint copies of the same items

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:42 pm 
 

red_bus wrote:
Marlith wrote:What would you rather have a fairly minty T1st PHB I bought new or one that was in good condition that could be authenticated to have been used by Frank when he was running the Great Bugbear Hunt for the first time?


Minty 1st print every time.  No offence intended, but for me it is the items themselves rather than who used them.  Yes, the history is interesting and adds to he value - but not significantly.


Amen, brother red!

I could care less if some gaming "celeb" touched or autographed an item. IMHO, an autograph damages the book.

But hey, that is just me. I don't go for the gaming hero-worship thing.

Comic books, and I am guilty of making the connection to gaming sometimes, are really a different animal than gaming material. Stan Lee is Stan Lee. No offense to some staffer at a game company, but they are not in the same league.

For me, prestige in a gaming collection is in the eye of the beholder (and hopefully not that beholder re: Afrika Corps). A prestige collection has to have the ultra rares that are historically significant (i.e. woody), not just rare (i.e. ST1). The collection has to be minty. It has to be expansive.

But overall, collections are our own. As long as you are happy with your own collection, well, there it is...


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Post Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 2:30 pm 
 

I appreciate all the helpful advice. But I have further questions...

Quantity: This was one example given as a basis for pedigree. What would the parameters be set for this? 1000 items in a collection? 2000? 10,000? I would suggest that quanitity along with condition would make up this category rather than either singlely. <sp?> Also, just because someone has 100,000 near mint shrinkwrapped copies of Vault of the Drow doesn't mean that the collection would be pedigree... right? :)

Fame/Celebrity: How do you suppose one would attain such status in our collecting circles?

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Post Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 3:04 pm 
 

The Wraith wrote:I appreciate all the helpful advice. But I have further questions...

Quantity: This was one example given as a basis for pedigree. What would the parameters be set for this? 1000 items in a collection? 2000? 10,000? I would suggest that quanitity along with condition would make up this category rather than either singlely. <sp?> Also, just because someone has 100,000 near mint shrinkwrapped copies of Vault of the Drow doesn't mean that the collection would be pedigree... right? :)


Look, pedigree is about lineage through generations (unless you guys use the word differently in the US) - so it applies to dogs and horses and aristocrats (in a Hons & Rebels sort of way).  I can't see how it would apply to anything as recent as rpg collecting.  

To use an analogy, I might say that the art collection in the Louvre has lineage - many of the pieces are ancient and much of it has been together as a collection for a long time.  I might even go so far to say that the Impressionist collection in the Musee D'Orsay (i.e. much more recent) has some lineage.  But I would not say that a collection of post 1960's pop art has lineage or pedigree.  But even in this rather tortured example, the use of the word is awkward.  It does not really apply.  

If rather you are asking "is my collection good enough to be famous?" then tell us what is in it and you will get an answer  :wink:   Or if you are asking "how can I get to have a famous (or legendary) rpg collection?" then I would say - you have two options:

1. buy lots of fascinating, rare and beautiful D&D items.

2. use an item your collection to bludgeon a celebrity to death (ideally live on TV).

In both cases, people will talk about your collection in hushed tones.  :D


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Post Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 3:05 pm 
 

so good i posted it twice  :oops:


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Post Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 4:58 pm 
 

I would say, when you become referred to by either your name, or your user ID, on the collector's forum, you have a collection that yould be referred to in that manner. Obviously some collections are more notable than others, but the Burnie collection is one that jumps to mind, and I'm sure if David, Mike, Mike, etc were to sell their collections, they would be commonly referred to as the Harami Collection, Improv Collection, IO Collection etc.


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