The Wraith wrote:How does one's collection become "pedigreed"? When does my collection of anything end being just a collection from some nut <G> to being "The Wraith" collection?

IMHO, that's all a collection is --- items belonging to someone.  It's just stuff.

If all of the items are rare, mint-condition, or historic, then the collection is obviously a step up from that of the average collector.  Such a collector may get a reputation for having an above-average collection.

If someone becomes famous or infamous, the his collection may be junk, but the items may be more valuable because of the association with fame or notoriety.  I bought some junk from John Freyer, the AllMyLifeForSale guy, just because he had an interesting concept.

What do you want from your RPG collection?  I am painting my lead miniatures in metallic monocolor with gloss clearcoat.  It's my "miniatures collection", and it means something (visual fun) to me.  If I wanted to be known as a collector of miniatures, then I'd be buy them NIP, post on miniatures sites, and spend hours painting a single showpiece miniature.

I have a fine collection of Judges Guild material, is that pedigree? Course I don't have the most Judges Guild material

ShaneG.

Calithena wrote:All three things (Depth, Condition, Uniqueness/Display of Unique Taste) basically boil down to the same thing though: making other collectors jealous, or at least respectful.

Depth and Breadth, maybe, but that's certainly an interesting way of phrasing the concept! thx.

Provenance is (as usual) another fun word to bandy around, IMHO.

faro wrote:

Calithena wrote:All three things (Depth, Condition, Uniqueness/Display of Unique Taste) basically boil down to the same thing though: making other collectors jealous, or at least respectful.

Depth and Breadth, maybe, but that's certainly an interesting way of phrasing the concept! thx.

Provenance is (as usual) another fun word to bandy around, IMHO.

Basing it along the lines of where we normally see pedigree I would go along with Faro about provenance. If the bulk of your collection can be traced back to important people or events then I would say that makes the case for a pedigree. The CoC box set auctioned recently, the PHB that was the froom the first box signed by Gygax, original tournament modules run by the noteables in te field ...those items I think make for a pedigreed collection. Many of the items Stomber (not sure if that is the right person or name) had in their auctions would probably work. But you could also go a number of other routes...this is just my opinion.

JohnGaunt wrote:It's just stuff.

Amen, brother. It's very interesting stuff to anyone here, and it's fun to track it, buy it, store it, display it, and sell it — and perhaps even one day find that "ultimate" piece you've been seeking — but it's still just ink on paper. It's never fed the starving or put an end to a war.

<<**ducking rotten fruit and vegetables now**>>

On the other hand, I do have lots of respect for pieces that might be considered historical or a key part of what has become our shared experience. If a collector manages to snag a true one-off or a unique piece of gaming lore — how about the original police report from Egbert's disappearance?   — then I say more power to them and congratulations. But I would also hope they have their other priorities straight in this wacky journey we call "real life."

MShipley88 wrote:Four things could confer a pedigree on a collection:

1)  Rarity

2)  Time

3)  Celebrity

4)  Sheer volume

.....like that guy in California whose house has converted itself into a museum of science fiction, fantasy and movie collectibles just through the collection's enormous bulk and the number of years involved in collecting...which has given the guy some small measure of celebrity.

....or that guy who sold his collection of thousands of vinyl records a few years ago for $100,000.  He cried on the news as they packed it up...I wondered why at the time...but not anymore.

  Of the four routes to pedigreed status, celebrity is the least valid...but the most common.

Mark  

Why would celebrity be the least valid? Most here go crazy when we have items that can be connected directly to a member of the industry as shown by the auctions of Marsh, Sutherland can't remember other names right now.

I would say volume would be the least as anybody with deep pockets can buy up large volumes of items regardless of value. Having 1000 X1's scares me more than it impresses me.

The next least would probably be time and I am guessing you mean age. If not then I apologize for assuming that. But I am not sure age means anything unless coupled with some other factor such as rarity or one I would add to your list quality. You can buy some Roman coins cheap and I purchased a French bank note from 1712 for $1 one time.

Next I would put as quality. This could mean condition though not as much as the actual accepted value of the item in the collecting community. If you collection is filled with items that a almost universally panned who wants to see it or hear about it.

Next would be rarity. This is almost in a photo finish with celebrity. The reason I place it below is the fact there can be really rare items that are junk. I think you may have even touched on this in a thread about maybe somethings are rare because they were junk and people tossed them with the garbage.

Celebrity and by that I mean connection to an indistry or historically significant event and or person makes the item more collectible. There are  some people who waould want a life preserver from the RMS Olympic but there are multiples of those numbers that want the same item from the RMS Titanic or if you want to remove rarity from that even make it deckplans.

Now of course this is just my opinion others are just as valid...and their spelling and grammar has to be better than mine.

Beyondthebreach wrote:I can think of one excellent example of how "celebrity" can greatly increase the value of something.

Sometime several years ago, all the Stan Lee file copies of Marvel comics were sold.  Though, I don't particularly like CGC, the one good thing is that they provide authentication to certain items - so when the Stan Lee file copies are on sale, the buyer knows they are the real deal as it states it on the CGC label.

In any case, these were the actual comics that Stan the Man would use as reference - some were hardly touched, but many others were well used (presumably he would use them to refer to pervious events when writing/editing current stories . . . or just read them for nostalgia.)

In the cut-throat, high-grade condition crazed world of comics, these stand out as low grade comics can sometimes fetch more than Near Mint based on their pedigree to Stan the Man.

But, that's about the pinnacle of a comic celebrity right there.  Maybe if Gygax himself were to sell his personal gaming books, there would be some comparison.

I would agree. Celebrity is often far, far overrated unless it's got some big cachet behind it (Stan Lee or EGG, agreed, would be those sorts).  Any "professional" collector of rarities will tell you that celebrity is often used to boost the value of something that frankly is almost worthless. Think of all the "creator signed" comics hawked on the Shopping Network back during the comics boom of the early 90's, thousands and thousands of comics that now could be put to better use as packaging material.
  IMO, in our hobby there are only  a few names that would generate interest in me if their collections/items came up for sale.  You can probably guess at the handful, everyone has their ownlist.  Time and again I have been flabbergasted at the large amounts paid to what I consider fringe people in the industry just to own a common Dragon magazine or module they had as part of their collection.  Original manuscript by Frank Mentzer, sure.  EGG's personal notes on a Castle Greyhawk gaming session, fine.  Rob Kuntz's personal dog-eared copy of the Player's Handbook, sure.  But random magazine or module from some dude who worked at the TSR Hobby Shop in the early 80's, or handwritten dungeons from some dude who happened to get lucky and have one Judge's Guild module published 30 years ago, ah, no buddy.
(Just to let you know the above two descriptions do NOT refer to any real living person, I just pulled them out of my head.....seriously)
    One of the things that has absolutely destroyed the sports collectible industry is the monomaniacal need to have items that are "authenticated" when it turns out about 50% of these "authenticated" items are blatant fakes.  A very close relative of mine a few years ago bought a Babe Ruth/Lou Gehrig autographed ticket stub from a very reputable dealer (some say one of the the MOST reputable dealers online). He paid quite a bit for it.  When he had it insured lastyear and had to get independent authentication, you guessed it, fake.
         I'm very glad in our own little niche hobby that celebrity hasn't invaded the worth of most of the items we collect.  For a lot of us, it's still about the item itself......it's getting a POTVQ PERIOD, not having to get one signed by the creators.  Ditto with goodies like an orange B3, Lost Tamoachan, etc.  That's why in our hobby I would rate Celebrity rather low on the list below Rarity, Depth, Condition.

Mike B.

Live Frank or Dead Frank? ;>

If it was me, I'd have to go look, and my items are 200 miles distant.


As to pedigrees... I simply refer you to my posted pics of lil' booklets with autographs, and let you judge for yourself.

grodog wrote:One of the things that folks haven't really touched on much is that for something to be valuable, people have to know about it.  As such, the sharing of information, evaluations, and the promotion of the context/history/development/etc. of the hobby has immense impact on what qualifies as a "pedigree" item, collector, collection.

Yeah, what he said.  If they haven't found the Acaeum, most people won't imagine there are people willing to pay obscene amounts of money for 30 year old pieces of paper.  That's the requirement for something to be valuable -- people have to have heard of it.

As Marlith noted, we're talking about pedigree.  For pedigree, a similar concept prevails:  we need to have heard of the owner!  

Believe it or not, saying "This is Deimos3428's personal Monster Manual" would mean nothing to some people!  Ok, bad example, but you get the idea.