MShipley88 wrote:Certainly, there were other writers dealing with fantasy material before Tolkien was published...E.R. Eddison (sp?)
MShipley88 wrote:A friend of mind criticized the first Lord of the Rings movie for incorporating, "too many fantasy cliches." I pointed out to him that it was impossible for Tolkien to utilize "cliches" in his writing...Tolkien is the father of the genre. Everyone else is copying him.
MShipley88 wrote:The imagery, history, races and structure of a medieval fantasy world are his creation...
faro wrote:(There's an article (by EGG?) re. the relative popularity of different periods pre-/post- Chainmail/D&D, somewhere.... Might be in A&E ~#15 but I'd have to double-check).
zhowar wrote:This OD&D "alternate-reality" thread over on Dragonsfoot suddenly seems relevant:http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=15501
faro wrote:MShipley88 wrote: I pointed out to him that it was impossible for Tolkien to utilize "cliches" in his writing...Tolkien is the father of the genre. Everyone else is copying him.Cursed golden rings, wise wizards, shattered swords and epic quests.
MShipley88 wrote: I pointed out to him that it was impossible for Tolkien to utilize "cliches" in his writing...Tolkien is the father of the genre. Everyone else is copying him.
zhowar wrote:faro wrote:(There's an article (by EGG?) re. the relative popularity of different periods pre-/post- Chainmail/D&D, somewhere.... Might be in A&E ~#15 but I'd have to double-check).Perhaps the "A Brief History of the Wargame in the United States" by Gyax in Little Wars Vol. 1 No. 1 (July 1976)?The entire article is still posted on the Acaeum, here:viewtopic.php?p=44401&highlight=wars+gygax#44401
zhowar wrote:Don't forget "Dragons"!
faro wrote:Dragons are pretty much everywhere except LoTR (to its credit... ^^).*jk*
Of his son, Fram, they tell that he slew Scatha, the great dragon of Ered Mithrin, and the land had peace from the long-worms afterwards. Thus Fram won great wealth, but was at feud with the Dwarves, who claimed the hoard of Scatha. Fram would not yield them a penny, and sent to them instead the teeth of Scatha made into a necklace, saying: "Jewels such as these you will not match in your treasuries, for they are hard to come by." Some say that the Dwarves slew Fram for this insult. There was no great love between Éothéod and the Dwarves.
grubbiv wrote:When Chainmail was published in 1971, there apparently wasn't too much in the way of medieval figures available.
grubbiv wrote:I made the claim that D&D developed from medieval wargaming, and some people have contested it. I have to recognize that if D&D really had a strong medieval warfare parentage, then it would have good rules for attacking from horseback and conducting sieges of castles, which it doesn't, sad to say.
faro wrote:MShipley88 wrote:Certainly, there were other writers dealing with fantasy material before Tolkien was published...E.R. Eddison (sp?)"The greatest and most convincing writer of 'invented worlds' that I have read" - JRRTEddison and Tolkien knew each other. They were part of the same circle of writers at Oxford.MShipley88 wrote:A friend of mind criticized the first Lord of the Rings movie for incorporating, "too many fantasy cliches." I pointed out to him that it was impossible for Tolkien to utilize "cliches" in his writing...Tolkien is the father of the genre. Everyone else is copying him.Tolkien certainly crafted his background utilizing material, names, etc. from mythological and older literary sources. That is why you have the feeling, when reading, that there is a deeper story behind every name that you ought to know. It is that illusion of depth that gives the story power.MShipley88 wrote:The imagery, history, races and structure of a medieval fantasy world are his creation...And pretty-much background fluff in the context of LoTR's plot which is just as well since he has difficulty creating a believable fantasy country or city far less patching those together into a self-sustaining whole.
Xaxaxe wrote:MShipley88 wrote:REH (of whom I doubt Tolkien was even aware)Not true, at least according to DeCamp, who claims he spent some memorable afternoons with Tolkien discussing "fantasy" literature.Tolkien's reaction to REH, as reported by DeCamp: "I quite like much of it."
MShipley88 wrote:REH (of whom I doubt Tolkien was even aware)
grubbiv wrote:Here is the advertisement that Henry Bodenstedt ran in Strategy & Tactics #6 for the Elastolin figures:[ Image ]I have seen the castle for sale on ebay. The siege tower and the catapult are currently available, but expensive: 60 pc knight's playsetNote that the castle on the map exactly corresponds to the model castle. The game was meant to be played with the model castle! It must have been incredibly fun to play.Admittedly, Siege of Bodenburg did not create the fantasy genre. What it did was motivate Gygax to buy these Elastolin figures and start playing medieval wargames. It is probably what motivated Gygax to found the Castle & Crusade Society.When Chainmail was published in 1971, there apparently wasn't too much in the way of medieval figures available. As most people here probably know, Chainmail suggests Elastolin or Starlux, which are expensive and of a larger scale, 40mm, than most wargamers care for. Chainmail also suggests the 30mm Airfix Robin Hood and Sheriff of Nottingham, which though cheap, lacked variety.It is a matter of personal interest to me what other medieval figures were available. I've been trying to find out whether the Scruby medievals and crusaders had been released yet. Also I would be interested to know what was available in the UK. It seems that by 1967 there were at least 4 manufacturers of wargaming miniatures over there.I made the claim that D&D developed from medieval wargaming, and some people have contested it. I have to recognize that if D&D really had a strong medieval warfare parentage, then it would have good rules for attacking from horseback and conducting sieges of castles, which it doesn't, sad to say.
MShipley88 wrote:It would be interesting to read this. Do you recall where this can be found?
MShipley88 wrote:There was a discussion of a plastic castle that was sold on Ebay in the last year.Supposedly, the castle was part of the inspiration for D&D. (Or, so said the auction posting.)I believe it eventually sold for quite a bit.
MShipley88 wrote:Anyone remember the discussion strand?Could this be the Bodenburg castle?