The Blue Camel
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Post Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:33 pm 
 

The stupidly rare Thieves World Supplement 'The Blue Camel' is up for download! Now that must be illegal. Could you imagine if someone posted ST1 as a download?


This week I've been mostly eating . . . chicken and wild rice soup.

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Post Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:44 pm 
 

Actually, I think that site was blessed by Lynn Abbey IIRC.  It's been available for quite some time, and hasn't seemed to lower the price of Blue Camel the few times that it's come up for auction.


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Post Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 4:47 am 
 

The download version has been around for a while, I remember seeing it around 4 or 5 years ago.  Just how rare is The Blue Camel, and how much does it usually sell for?

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Post Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:57 am 
 

I remember it coming up for sale about three years back, maybe August/September '03. I was just beginning to collect, so I paid no attention to it, but that's the last one I remember seeing on eBay.


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Post Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:55 am 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:I remember it coming up for sale about three years back, maybe August/September '03. I was just beginning to collect, so I paid no attention to it, but that's the last one I remember seeing on eBay.

Not that I've been looking that much, either, but Allan picked up the last one I noticed, a few months back. There were other items in that bundle but IIRC the attributable cost was $20-25.

Already looking forward to seeing the one-after-next in your eBay store for 40-50 pounds and others on eBay to go for more serious money thereafter. ;)

  

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Post Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:10 am 
 

I'd probably pick one up to produce a better PDF, but I'm not serious about the Chaosium stuff ATM. I let the set of FASA adventures go yeterday.

Do you think my shop is pushing up prices?


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Post Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:20 am 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:Do you think my shop is pushing up prices?

Yes.

Are you not happy enough with your illegal .pdfs that you have to turn a profit on those transactions, too?
Most of us around here have to pay to own RPG material, not be paid for that privilege. :)

  

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Post Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:27 am 
 

faro wrote:Most of us around here have to pay to own RPG material, not be paid for that privilege. :)


Is there a little bitterness there, David?  I'm just trying to make a living like everyone else.

Aside. In Scotland it is illegal to produce a PDF of a product you do not own. It is also illegal to read a PDF of something you do not own. But it is not illegal to own a PDF of something you do not own. Possession of copyright infringing material is only illegal if you use it or manufacture it for proffit.


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Post Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:41 am 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:Is there a little bitterness there, David?  I'm just trying to make a living like everyone else.

Sure; we could all use that excuse.

  


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Post Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:48 am 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:It is also illegal to read a PDF of something you do not own.

8O That'd be fun to enforce. 8O

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Post Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:52 am 
 

Basic economics. You buy something and then you sell it and hopefully make a proffit. You can sell lots of things at low proffit margins or fewer things at higher proffit margins. That's how economics in the Western World works.


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Post Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:53 am 
 

deimos3428 wrote:
mbassoc2003 wrote:It is also illegal to read a PDF of something you do not own.

8O That'd be fun to enforce. 8O

It is very hard to prosecute piracy and breach of copyright in Scotland. You can buy prirate software and DVDs in our shops!


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Post Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 9:11 am 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:
deimos3428 wrote:
mbassoc2003 wrote:It is also illegal to read a PDF of something you do not own.

8O That'd be fun to enforce. 8O

It is very hard to prosecute piracy and breach of copyright in Scotland. You can buy prirate software and DVDs in our shops!

I can see it now in travel magazines --- "Scotland, the Hong Kong of Europe".   :roll:

Are any PDFs more rare or more valuable than others?  Are any PDFs considered collector's items?

  

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Post Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 9:40 am 
 

JohnGaunt wrote:Are any PDFs more rare or more valuable than others?  Are any PDFs considered collector's items?

I doubt it. I know that ST1 is available online, but it takes a lot of hunting for and those who find it don't distribute. That's about as collectable as they get. I think that swapping PDFs is a BIG NO NO.

I have no moral problem making them and owning them, but they are strictly personal use only. I won't sell or trade. If I want a PDF I'll go and buy the original and make it myself.


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Post Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:59 am 
 

Hello all,

I purchased a Near Mint copy of Blue Camel on Ebay a couple of years ago. The seller was Tadashi Ehara, formerly of Chaosium. He said he picked it up as a convention freebie. I don't remember exactly how much I paid, but I am pretty sure that it was somewhere between $25 and $50. Being only 4 pages long there isn't much to it, and it doesn't have a series number on it (like T4 or similar), but it does round out my Thieves World collection.

I can't remember seeing another one come up on Ebay since then. I may be the guy who bought the one mentioned as being sold aound 2003.

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Post Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:41 am 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:The stupidly rare Thieves World Supplement 'The Blue Camel' is up for download! Now that must be illegal. Could you imagine if someone posted ST1 as a download?


   What I clicked on was not so much a download as a picture of the product.  

   I tried printing page two and got just the upper left-hand corner.

   I don't think this is gonna take the place of owning the original.

Mark   8)


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Post Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 12:50 am 
 

faro wrote:
mbassoc2003 wrote:Do you think my shop is pushing up prices?

Yes.

Are you not happy enough with your illegal .pdfs that you have to turn a profit on those transactions, too?
Most of us around here have to pay to own RPG material, not be paid for that privilege. :)


So far as I know, Ian isn't selling .pdfs...right?

In America, making a copy of an item you own fits under "fair use."  I don't know if you are supposed to destroy the copy if you no longer own the original.  Probably.

But, so long as you aren't selling illegal copies I doubt the FBI is going to knock on your door.

Mark   8)


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Post Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:32 am 
 

MShipley88 wrote:In America, making a copy of an item you own fits under "fair use."  I don't know if you are supposed to destroy the copy if you no longer own the original.  Probably.

Correct.

'Fair use' relates to the use of extracts whereas an entire copy would be more for being able to access content you've legally purchased in a different media context (e.g. ripping your own CDs and sticking them on your iPod).

  

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Post Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:39 am 
 

I believe American law would permit me to make a copy of my CD and load it to my MP3 player, for instance...so long as I made only a single copy and did not distribute it.

I could, for instance, photocopy a module for my own use so long as I did not give away the copy...presumably, that includes an electronic copy.

Mark   8)


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Post Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:48 am 
 

MShipley88 wrote:I believe American law would permit me to make a copy of my CD and load it to my MP3 player, for instance...so long as I made only a single copy and did not distribute it.

I could, for instance, photocopy a module for my own use so long as I did not give away the copy...presumably, that includes an electronic copy.

Yup. :)

IIRC, the boundaries of copyright legislation were pushed back somewhat by all of that, but it's now accepted within the current framework.

However, sell the original and the 'backup'/'alternative media' copy becomes illegal.
(And I'm frustrated that no-one seems to give a damn 'bout that, since it simply allows someone to use illegal methods to control/distort the market, building up their own scanned collection free of charge whilst increasing prices for those collectors who want to purchase the originals.
Looking forward to another dozen people doing the same to hear the complaints finally begin...).

  
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