Need Help--Durham Wargames Group
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Post Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 9:32 pm 
 

I received this item today, entitled Ancient Wargame Rules, devised by Durham Wargames Group, published by Wargamer's Den.  It has no publication date that I can find.  Can anyone out there place it?  Thanks.

Image


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Post Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:03 pm 
 

I don't have that one. House rule publications were legion over here.
The club is no longer in existence, as far as I can tell. (Nothing to do with the fact they started playing Warhammer instead...).

Late 70s would be a good starting-point guess, I think.
Is there no other evidence inside? Any author/contributor names or other references?

  


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Post Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:32 pm 
 

No names or other delineating information.  Appears to be a point-buy system.  The only odd thing about it is the number generator in the back--a series of concentric circles with numbers that is to be attached to a spinner.  No dice required.


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Post Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:08 pm 
 

tfm wrote:No names or other delineating information.  Appears to be a point-buy system.  The only odd thing about it is the number generator in the back--a series of concentric circles with numbers that is to be attached to a spinner.  No dice required.

Equivalent to?? d20? d10?

No names is about par for the course. No external refs. is painful.
Ancients rules exist in a somewhat timeless void compared with rapidly developing fantasy rules through that period.

I really don't want to try placing a guess just from the toning of the paper or stenciling.
Sorry...

=
aside: Thanks, tfm. Was just scanning around checking on a few leads and only just realised I have an unlisted UK mono version (presumably original since it credits the Soke Military Society for gametesting) of http://www.freewebs.com/tolkienboardgam ... arfare.htm :)
For some reason I'd never connected those two or thought to check the site! :roll:

If asked to place a date on that, I would also have said "late 70s" not "mid 70s" from the production and Vancian/D&D cross-over naming in the contents.
It's not easy to place guesses... :?

  


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Post Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:45 pm 
 

D2-D10.  I just got a 2nd print of W&W.  The cover art on the first print looks great.  Could you post a scan?  Speaking of The Lidless Eye, check this out:

Image

It's from South London Warlords.


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Post Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:10 am 
 

tfm wrote:D2-D10.

Hmm... wish I could decide what way to jump on that.

Think you'll need further research, alas.
(Tried contacts via the old Durham org and everything's bouncing :()

tfm wrote:Speaking of The Lidless Eye, check this out:
<LidlessEye0001.jpg>
It's from South London Warlords.

Now that I have seen before (in Edinburgh?), 'though I don't have a copy here (I think).

What did I say 'bout house rules publications being legion? :)

  

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Post Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:20 am 
 

Re. http://www.freewebs.com/tolkienboardgam ... arfare.htm

tfm wrote:I just got a 2nd print of W&W.  The cover art on the first print looks great.  Could you post a scan?

Well done! I don't have any of the others; but in that case you haven't seen the burqa-clad Nazgul on the 0th print, have you? :D

Mounted on a "pteradactyl" per the rules...

Image

(Loose leaf sheets (32pp) from typed stencils, stapled in cream-colored glossy folder)

Don't recall seeing any other (UK) copies besides this one. Has anybody else got a copy, or was it superseded by the 1st Heritage print (1976; rarity 10?!) before it had a chance to circulate widely? *nudges Mr. Huckerby, just in case*

  


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Post Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:30 am 
 

Thanks for looking.  Lots of creativity there, and not just in gaming.  No one's come close to Zeppelin.  I've been collecting Live Zep concerts for awhile now and Page is the man, especially with the 30 minute versions of "Dazed and Confused."  Stolen R&B my ass!  A person would have to have shit for brains to make that argument.


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Post Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:33 am 
 

Oh man! The "pteradactyl" makes my night!  What do you know about London Wargames Section and War Games Research Group?  They are the oldest I have.


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Post Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:01 pm 
 

faro wrote:Don't recall seeing any other (UK) copies besides this one. Has anybody else got a copy, or was it superseded by the 1st Heritage print (1976; rarity 10?!) before it had a chance to circulate widely? *nudges Mr. Huckerby, just in case*

No knowledge of Leicester MicroModels.  Moved here in 1983.  Looks well before my time.  But might try a few searches locally.

  


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Post Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:22 pm 
 

tfm wrote:I received this item today, entitled Ancient Wargame Rules, devised by Durham Wargames Group, published by Wargamer's Den.  It has no publication date that I can find.  Can anyone out there place it?  Thanks.

Would seem that 84 Claypath, Durham is "Howarth's Hair & Beauty".
http://www.ukeye.net/north/Areas/Durham_Beauty.htm

Might be worth call to see how long they've been there and if they let out a room over the shop to some anoraks :wink: Or maybe the wargamers have another vocation :D

  

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Post Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 6:17 pm 
 

johnhuck wrote:No knowledge of Leicester MicroModels.  Moved here in 1983.  Looks well before my time.  But might try a few searches locally.

Was wondering more as to whether a certain relative might've had a few wargaming relics in their collection, too...

Eh... You don't still have hobby shops down there, do you? :?

thx.

  


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Post Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:00 am 
 

That Wizards and Warfare pic you just put up is NICE Faro!

Can you provide more info about it? I would like to put it on the site.....wonder why you never contacted me earlier!!

Also Faro, I sent you a private message, please check it.

Hey Kynan, is that a pic of your Lidless Eye or from an online source? If its your copy, how'd you get one? I'm looking for it  :D

  


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Post Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:23 am 
 

Interestingly enough, look what just popped up on EBay right now:



http://cgi.ebay.com/Wizards-Warfare-Vin ... dZViewItem



This should be fun. :)


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Post Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:33 pm 
 

It should be lots of fun.  As for The Lidless Eye, I picked it up for four quid from an online bookstore.  I've been buying up old wargames (pre-gunpowder mostly) for over a year now.  The deals have been excellent with bookstores online because there hasn't been a lot of interest, and so the prices are down.  They're coming up a bit on eBay now, but I won a ton from a guy in Britain last year for list price, so it's not bad yet.  The Wargamer #1 that went off on eBay on 3-21-04 went for $316 did so because of the Tolkien game that was in it.  A person has to hunt around.  Case in point: The Adventure Gaming Handbook put out by Heritage Models for John Carter, Warlord of Mars.  There was this auction:



http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 8758790611



and then this one



http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... %3AIT&rd=1



Titan had AGH for $15.  I just won a copy of Rules for Wargames Gladiatorial Combat from the aforementioned Leicester:



http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... %3AIT&rd=1



Two bids, that's it.  The wargames are still something a person can collect without going into the red.  For what was spent on the last LT, I could get 60-70 old wargames.  The early art is supercool anyway.


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Post Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:36 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:Interestingly enough, look what just popped up on EBay right now:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Wizards-Warfare-Vin ... dZViewItem
This should be fun. :)


Flukey! :P



Haven't seen a copy on eBay before: not that I was looking too hard, mind you, but the http://www.freewebs.com/tolkienboardgamecollecting guys will have been.

Mike; I honestly hadn't realised that 1/2 of that operation was you, Mike! ;) (I'll repeat "neat site", btw... :)).



I did double-check before posting and also ensured there was no copy available in any online bookstore. Nor is it mentioned on http://www.intonet.co.uk/~rblack/rules.htm which is one of the few places Leicester Micro Models is noted.

The first few WDs state that GW stocked their products (not mentioning any titles); otherwise all refs are early-mid 70s.



Re. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 8769350420

It's a bit rough, but you might still have a fight to win at $4.99, Brian ;)

Can't see any sign of where the staples were, but the combat table is present (last sheet here).

Full page count is: Index (double-sided sheet), pages 1-30 (15 sheets), Afterthought/Acknowledgements/Combat Matrix (double-sided sheet), if anyone might wish to check with the seller. Guess that makes 34, not 32 as I stated above :oops:

  

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Post Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:41 pm 
 

tfm wrote:Two bids, that's it.  The wargames are still something a person can collect without going into the red.  For what was spent on the last LT, I could get 60-70 old wargames.  The early art is supercool anyway.


Heh. I just picked up those that looked interesting from time-to-time way back. Played a number of them, but was never a particularly "serious" wargamer myself.



re. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 8765813978

*g* I love the auction close date and seller ID there. Nicely timed pounce, tfm! ;)

Yup, exactly the same style of lettering and cover as "Wizards and Warfare".

Very good to see that, since http://www.intonet.co.uk/~rblack/rules.htm lists "Rules for Gladiatorial Combat" as 1975.

  


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Post Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 2:10 pm 
 

Faro, you want to part with your Wizards and Warfare? Please let me know  :D

Tfm, what a deal on the Lidless Eye. Mind telling me what online bookstore you are shopping at?

Mike

  

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Post Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 2:51 pm 
 

Mkman wrote:Faro, you want to part with your Wizards and Warfare? Please let me know  :D

Don't you think it would be smarter to see whether the one that's up goes for $10 or $100 first?

Seriously, though, I'm not particularly in the habit of selling- perhaps a pity in this case, since the rules are neater than I recall and I don't think I ever played them. :(

Would be interesting to know whether the Heritage Models editions were further revised from the UK version (avoiding Jack Vance copyright issues and/or toning-down on the Tolkien?), or whether it was just the typos that were fixed. Typing errors on stencils are a pain to correct!
D'you have Lugwiler's (Luguiler's) Dismal Itch, Mike? ;)

Aside; having compared again, the copy up for sale ain't actually that bad after all. The folder is seriously large (8"x12") and glossy cream is perfect to show up any grubbiness even on a low-res scan.
Hopefully all the pages are there, but looks fairly promising.

  


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Post Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2006 2:56 pm 
 

Hi Faro, I could tell you if the Heritage Models editions were revised compared to your mono version if you part with yours. I have the other versions and if I can get yours, I can do a comparison :D

The one thats available on ebay is in ok condition. I would rather prefer something in better condition like yours. I wonder why you still never emailed me or David! We rarely get submissions!

If you can, please email me at [email protected] so that we can talk privately.  :)

  
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