Game Lords Fakes :/
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Post Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 5:01 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:No one cares unless you are a huge corporation with hordes of lawyers willing to spend time and money. The best, absolute best, result is to get the listings removed from Ebay or the internet.

No argument there.  There's something wrong with the judical system if they're wrong, you can prove it, and you still lose even after you do so.  

I figured the copyright holder could stomp them with a quick $750 (minimum) fine and be done with it.  They're distributing the material without authorization, which is a copyright infringement, and very easily provable as it's for auction on frickin' eBay!  It looked good on paper, anyway.   :roll:

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Post Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 5:24 pm 
 

deimos3428 wrote:I figured the copyright holder could stomp them with a quick $750 (minimum) fine and be done with it. They're distributing the material without authorization, which is a copyright infringement, and very easily provable as it's for auction on frickin' eBay! It looked good on paper, anyway.  :roll:

If you are the copyright holder, it isn't worth your time or money to try to bring a prosecution against an individual. And as you could never win a prosecution against eBay, it isn't worth the time or effort to try. All you can do is waste your time trying to get eBay to stop them every time one pops up. That is an exercise in futility, and sooner or later you'll get sick of wasing your time trying to do it.


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Post Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 10:01 am 
 

bclarkie wrote:Allan, I am assuming that Tadashie is going to follow up with EBay about these fakes that are being sold. If need be I will forward my fake coipies to yourself or him directly for that matter as proof. Let me know.


I haven't heard back from Tadashi about this yet, but will definitely ping him, Brian.  He may be travelling overseas at the moment.


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Post Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 10:10 am 
 

killjoy32 wrote:if tadashi contacts ebay and tells them that his copyright is being breached by persons X Y and Z with listings A B and C, ebay will pull them.

he just needs to go through the VERO programme and they WILL sort it - believe me they are as sharp as feck when you start down that route. i've been on the receiving end of that once (totally unknowingly) - the listing took 2 hrs 30 mins or so, to be removed.


I"m not familiar with this program, Al, thanks for the pointer: eBay: Redirect

I'll point Tadashi to this, and will let you guys know the results!


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Post Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 10:47 am 
 

Deadlord36 wrote:OK, if you guys can refresh me about how to get feedback removed, I'll buy up his stuff.


Evidently you just need to put the person's name, address, and phone number in your feedback and all feedback for the transaction gets removed.... though I believe he needs to complain about it, otherwise eBay will probably just ignore it.

  

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Post Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 10:47 am 
 

grodog wrote:
killjoy32 wrote:if tadashi contacts ebay and tells them that his copyright is being breached by persons X Y and Z with listings A B and C, ebay will pull them.

he just needs to go through the VERO programme and they WILL sort it - believe me they are as sharp as feck when you start down that route. i've been on the receiving end of that once (totally unknowingly) - the listing took 2 hrs 30 mins or so, to be removed.


I"m not familiar with this program, Al, thanks for the pointer: pages.ebay.com/help/confidence/programs ... ro-ov.html

I'll point Tadashi to this, and will let you guys know the results!


Wow, ebay has actually done something right, what a great prpgram. Unfortunately only the right's holder themselves can report potentially infringing items.  Still, it seems like it could work quite well.

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Post Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 10:59 am 
 

OK, if you guys can refresh me about how to get feedback removed, I'll buy up his stuff.


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Post Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:07 am 
 

Deadlord36 wrote:OK, if you guys can refresh me about how to get feedback removed, I'll buy up his stuff.

If the guy is anonymous, and hiding behind an anonymous payment scheme, you can't get his personal details.

If you can get his personal details, post feedback on his account to the effect...

Feedback from Deadlord: David Dickwad. I tried to call you on 555 8866. These are fake.
Followup Feedback from Deadlord: Your selling forgeries. I've reported this to my local Police department.


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Post Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:12 am 
 

Can you tell me how I get his details?


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Post Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 12:09 pm 
 

Badmike wrote:Wow, ebay has actually done something right, what a great prpgram. Unfortunately only the right's holder themselves can report potentially infringing items. Still, it seems like it could work quite well.

Mike B.


oh it definately works!

the item i had, apparently had about 5 patents on it. four of them were US only, whilst the 5th was UK too. the 5th one, was the one that bounced me and all they had to do was provide ebay with documentation that they held patent/copyright and they sorted it - it was a rather stiff warning too. ie. permanent ban if i listed again  :?



  

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Post Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:24 pm 
 

Deadlord36 wrote:Can you tell me how I get his details?

Well, you could 'request contact information' from eBay. But they could be fake if he's switched on.
You could tell him you want to post him a cheque.
If he's committing fraud, and he knows he is, then he's probably already got those angles covered.
If he doesn't take PayPal, you could leave the recovery of funds to your Credit Card company.
If it were me, in the UK, I'd pay using my Credit Card through BidPay or whatever, and then I'd contact the police and get a Crime Refence Number, and contact my Credit Card, give them the CRN and ask them to recover my funds. Either BidPay of the seller would end up out of pocket. With proof that a crime had been reported, BidPay are obliged to return funds regardless of whether or not they can recover funds from the seller.
In the UK, Money Orders have now been outlawed. No more Western Union.


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Post Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:50 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:In the UK, Money Orders have now been outlawed. No more Western Union.


yeah i noticed that one myself - good move imo, tho it doesnt help with regards to paypal monopolising everything in that regard tho  :?



  

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Post Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:54 pm 
 

We live in a world of monopolies. I don't have a problem with them. There is no other way of doing business.


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Post Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:58 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:We live in a world of monopolies. I don't have a problem with them. There is no other way of doing business.


well i have always believed in one having choice and dont like monopolising. in years gone by, BT comes to mind - they milked the UK for everything it was worth and put us years behind all the other countries with the technology available, also charging top $ for the privilege of using their services.

paypal in that regard, also comes to mind in a very similar way. soon, it will be the only option for payment if they get their way and then they can make a killing out of the punter as usual.

i prb wouldnt mind so much if i felt i was being charged fairly and that i was protected as much as the other party was - which is rarely the case (ie the buyer)

Al



  

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Post Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 6:36 pm 
 

For what it is worth, I posted fraud complaints with Ebay about this guy's products.  I asked him to post photographs of his products...and he has not replied.  Pulling the photographs pretty much establishes that he knows they do not look like real products.

   IF his publications are legitimate, why not simply provide a small explanation....the provenance for these items would clear up everything.

   Everyone here should take a moment to find his two current auctions, which do not have photographs.  If several dozen people post fraud alerts to Ebay about this guy it might well at least cause him enough pain to stop, or to explain himself.    :evil:

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Post Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 12:11 pm 
 

*bump*

In lieu of the fact that I almost inadvertently sold my fake Compleat Tavern last week (thanks for pointing it out to me Mars), we thought it would be best to revisit this topic again.  I mean, I was one of the original people who dealt with this when it first came to light and I almost sold my fake copy unaware. :?  Additionally, with the prices of Non-TSR seemingly being through the roof recently it also makes this an even better idea to revisit as other unidentified fakes may also be out there already or start cropping up.

Anyway, after this was discussed last, I was certain that I tossed out my own copy and picked up a new legitimate one, but apparently I only threw out my fake Montie Haul and picked up a legit one. Here is my auction that I ended up closing before it ended:


** expired eBay auction **


Again, it is the one with the Pinkish cover for those unaware of it and it is most certainly a fake.  Mars has some thoughts he will post as well, but I wanted to clarify that I almost 100% certain now after looking that this was in fact a fake.   Granted it is a well done fake(although not as well done as I had originally thought!), but after posting these pictures to follow here, it pretty much guarantees it.  Now when I first pulled the auction down I looked through this thread again and started looking over my own copy and I started to really wonder if this was in fact a fake or not.  I mean granted it was obvious the large fold out map is a photocopy, but the thing that really threw me was the fact that the also included a card-stock card for the Tavern Furnishings.  I mean who would go through the trouble of creating a card-stock sheet for them, especially when just photocopying the large map.  Thats when I realized that the card-stock Tavern Furnishing sheet was the same card-stock as the fake Montie Haul Dungeon!  Additionally, when I started taking a closer look at the pages in the booklet, I noticed 3 black marks that I had not noticed before.  There marks are clearly staple marks on the paper that mapped over from when the person creating the fakes made the photocopies.  Then I found the real evidence that this did in fact have to have been a fake.  Whoever was making the fakes must have not realized that there was some identifying marks on the large fold-out maps when he was copying them until it was already to late. Rather than make new ones, he actually WHITED OUT certain spots on the map!! He WHITED THEM OUT!!  I am fairly certain that this evidence makes it pretty conclusive that the Pink Compleat Taverns are indeed fakes and I wanted to make a record of my additional finding here for everyone to see.  Also, if anyone else has a copy of the Pink Compleat Tavern, can you please check your copy versus mine to see if it matches up with mine.  Here are some photos of the pertinent things I am alluding to above.  Please note, that I have circled the important marks in Bold Red so they are easy to pick out:

All three components.  Notice the red circles on the map as they are the white out:

Image



Here is just the Pink Booklet:

Image

Here is the front of the map.  Again notice the Red circles pointing out the White Out:

Image

Here is the Yellow card-stock Tavern Furnishing sheet:
Image

Here is the first black mark in the book which is the residual mark left from the copied staple hole:

Image


Here is the second set of black marks in the book which is the residual marks left from the copied staple holes:

Image

Here are a few photos that I took through the back of the map before I realized the White would show up so clearly in my pictures.  All are circled in red again:

Image

Image

Image

Again, anyone who still currently owns a pink Compleat Tavern, please do me a favor and check you copy to make sure that yours matches up with mine.  It should also be noted that Aaron has fake Compleat Taverns listed on the NKG site whether or not he is aware of it:

NOBLE KNIGHT GAMES - Where the Out-of-Print is Available Again

With that said, it might be a good idea to not only not buy them, but someone should probably shoot him an email with this link so that he can remove them from his site.  Perhaps he also remembers where he came upon his copy(s) which could potentially help identify the creator of these fakes.


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Last edited by bclarkie on Sat May 12, 2007 6:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
  

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Post Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 12:48 pm 
 

bclarkie wrote:With that said, it might be a good idea to not only not buy them, but someone should probably shoot him an email with this link so that he can remove them from his site.  Perhaps he also remembers where he came upon his copy(s) which could potentially help identify the creator of these fakes.


Done, plus I pointed him to this thread.


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Post Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 1:30 pm 
 

From what I have gathered, there are at least two authentic printings of The Compleat Tavern by Gamelords.  The first print does not have a price on the cover and the second print does have a price of $3.95 in the top right.  There are also differences in these two books such as the catalog of other products for sale at the back of the book.

With the pink fake book, it seems to exactly match the authentic first print which seems a bit strange that wouldn't update anything like their product catalog.

The other thing that really bugs me about the pink fake Compleat Tavern and yellow fake Montie Haul is that their covers are coloured cardstock printed with black ink.  The release date of these books is about 1982 which means that other Gamelords products such as Thieves' Guild I, II, III were already out.  All of these products have more than one colour on their covers.  Thieves' Guild I has a blue title with black artwork.  It seems out of character for Gamelords to produce these editions of CT and MH when all their products before and after are of better quality.

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