The Character Archaic Print Sequence • Page 2 • Collecting General

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The Character Archaic Print Sequence
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harami2000
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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:13 pm

dbartman wrote:Would also like to see or get some info on what harami2000 has. I've seen the one that burntwire posted and it's not the same. That one is possibly a prototype or early concept.

Here's the original link to that one:

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/dhibbs@pr ... .dir=/3c84

(Should hopefully be amongst the items to pick up from the postal depot, tomorrow).

Looks like the same one to me, Doug.

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/dhibbs@pr ... pg&.src=ph

vs.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... otohosting

In which case, I'd better ask Burnie Bros. whether the other copy was identical (as is implied).

Certainly looked good for a 1975/6 timeframe, given the find context; viewtopic.php?p=34145&lighter=#34145

dbartman
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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:10 pm

harami2000 wrote:Looks like the same one to me, Doug.
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/dhibbs@pr ... pg&.src=ph
vs.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... otohosting

In which case, I'd better ask Burnie Bros. whether the other copy was identical (as is implied).
Certainly looked good for a 1975/6 timeframe, given the find context; viewtopic.php?p=34145&lighter=#34145

Sorry, I hope I didn't confuse anyone. That is the same one. I meant that the one burntwire posted pictures of, and David is now waiting for, aren't the same as the sheets in the Character Archaic 2nd printing that I have. As mentioned, it could be an earlier incarnation though.

harami2000
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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:43 pm

dbartman wrote:Sorry, I hope I didn't confuse anyone.

Just me, I think!

a2jeff
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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 6:53 pm

Scott, I'll assume the collaboration and the pictures posted above are plenty to substantiate a true 1st printing and that you'll update the records accordingly during the next update.

tfm
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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 7:28 pm

This has probably been observed already, but CA appears on the Other Releases pages in the 1st prints of Supplements III, IV, and V, all dated 1976. The Acaeum describes (on the table at the bottom) the 1st EW as probably printed in April of that year.

dbartman
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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 7:44 pm

Okay, I've taken a couple of pictures of the 2nd print for those that are interested.

a2jeff
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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 7:46 pm

Very cool pictures of the 2nd print for sure!!

dbartman
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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 8:08 pm

Last picture, then away to storage again...

scribe
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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:06 pm

As rare as the red 1st is....that 2nd has to be 10 more leagues in the depth of rarity. Absolutely stunning!

"before chuck even gets in the room, you can feel the bad-ness." -Al

a2jeff
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Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:22 pm

I agree the 2nd print is very cool and so far I've only heard of the one. Similarly, the 1P of the CA I got from Pete seems to be the only one seen and either a true 1P or a pre-pub, though it seems most likely a T1P.

faro
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Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 9:26 pm

*pulls out the CA thread*

a2jeff wrote:-----Original Message-----
From: Pete Kerestan
Sent: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 06:38:01 -0700
Hi Jeff, Yes the copy you have is from the first pull of the product before the final version mix was decided on. It is actually from the print run done in 1974 and not the 1975 sales version. I was still in the army when we ran the first sheets and was assigned to DIS duty in EL Segundo where my wife's cousin had a print shop. He ran the first sheets for this product. I ended up reassigned to FT Ord after that and it wasn't until Feb of 75 that I left the army to set up my hobby shop....

Add one year to the above (of course) and it's cat amongst the Fiendish Archaic Vampire pigeons time, again.

Stock list in SR#6 (Feb 76); Character Archaic

Huh?

So did Pete change from a distribution deal, to an exclusive distribution deal in May/June 76, or were TSR just reselling CAs off their own back (extremely quick off the mark, if so).

bclarkie
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Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:31 pm

*bump*

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Neitzche

a2jeff
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Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 5:10 pm

bclarkie wrote:Anyway, now on to the details of this copy I just received. My copy has 27 character sheets. 8 of them are light green, 3 are light yellow, and the remaining 16 are a darker yellow, very similar in color to the classic goldenrod color PC sheets that TSR produced like this:

http://www.acaeum.com/ddindexes/miscpag ... /76pc.html

My copy also has 2 blank white sheets: 1 where the title page on a book would normally be and other one immediately after the character sheets end. My copy does have the Dungeon Map, it has the Combat Matrix Reference sheet, and it has 2 sheets for the Character Roll Call. One of the Character roll call sheets is labeled, however the other is not, its just a continuation of the character roll call grid.

The number, color and types of character sheets seem to vary quite a bit. Probably because sheets were taken out and used, but there's probably some variability from complete copy to complete copy.

The blank page at the beginning and end seems the norm based on the copies I have.

The character roll call double page is interesting, haven't seen/heard of that one before.

Check the other detailed descriptions of folks content early in the thread and see if everything else matches up....especially on the back cover.

a2jeff
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Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 3:37 pm

FINALLY had a chance to sit down and really compare the Kerestan 1st print to the Tim Kask 1st print today, and thought I'd post my comparison notes here.

From Tim's recollections, this copy was the first one sent to TSR by Wee Warriors for review. Obviously TSR liked it, made some subtle changes (like dropping the Cosmic Frog ad) and then distributed it.

Comparison notes:

Tim Kask copy
Pain red stock cover, absent TSR reference
Plain white sheet blank
6 light green/blue character sheets Note: 1st sheet is Tim's character Kelnor, human 12th level Mage
3 light yellow character sheets
16 goldenrod character sheets
1 plain white sheet blank
The Wizard's Tomb map
Combat matrix reference
Creature Encounters
Character roll call for quick reference
Cosmic Frog Productions ad
Rear cover (note: Pete's address has been lined through lightly in ink and the following address has been written in ink: 2970 Cedar Morro Bay, CA 93442

Pete Kerestan's copy:
Plain red stock cover, absent TSR reference
Plain white sheet blank
6 green/blue character sheets
3 light yellow character sheets
8 goldenrod character sheets
1 plain white sheet blank
The Wizard's Tomb map
Combat matrix reference
Character roll call for quick reference
Cosmic Frog Productions ad
Rear cover

Aside from double the number of goldenrod character sheets in Kask's copy, and the absence of the creature encounters sheet in Kerestan's copy, the only other noticeable difference is in the brass fasteners used (Kask copy has slightly larger fasteners - see pics below)

Kask copy left, Kerestan copy right:

a2jeff
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Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 3:49 pm

On another note, one thing that's always been a question in my mind is how many of each color character sheet was the norm/complete?

Based on folks posts above, there is a bit of a common theme that has emerged:

Green/Blue->light yellow->goldenrod
6->3->8 (1st print Kerestan)
6->3->16 (1st print Kask)
8->3->16 (a copy I have, and a copy Clarkie noted on WW product topic)
10->3->16 (Paul's copy noted above)

Pretty consistent except for the green/blue sheets. Hard to say whether WW/TSR modified the base contents over time, or if some copies noted are incomplete. Probably safe to say however that if you had an incomplete copy, it would most likely be missing a page from the beginning of the CA, as opposed to the middle or end.

Anyone else care to post numbers of sheets by color in their CAs?

ddt58
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Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 4:40 am

My copy is the one pictured in Acaeum. It has fasteners like the Kerestan copy but has 20 character sheets. It isn't accessible so I can't tell colors. They were obviously assembled by hand, so there may be variations due to mistakes or different assemblers.

Plaag
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Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 12:46 pm

((Off Topic somewhat)) This happens slightly with Tac Cards ((Back on topic))
Where was Wee Warriors located? Would be interested in knowing if their golden rod paper matches that of Judges Guild.

ShaneG.

bombadil
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Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 2:23 pm

Plaag wrote:Where was Wee Warriors located? Would be interested in knowing if their golden rod paper matches that of Judges Guild.

ShaneG.

In California, I think.

Let mirth prevail!

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