The Character Archaic Print Sequence
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Post Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 8:36 pm 
 

Alright, let's get this started.



After I received The Character Archaic I purchased from Pete Kerestan:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... RK:MEWN:IT



I noticed several differences between it and the posted description on Acaeum.



1. A "plain" heavier stock red cover, not the textured cover as in the Acaeum picture of the Archaic or like the one on Dwarven Glory, etc.



Image



2. My copy contents are as follows: Cover, one blank page, 17 character sheets (6 blue, 3 light yellow, 8 goldenrod), a blank sheet, the Wizard's Tomb map, a combat matrix reference, a character roll call, an ad for Cosmic Frog Productions (Morno) and then the back cover.



Morno ad:

Image



3. My copy has no creature encounter sheet, as stated in the Acaeum description.  



Exact wording from my inside cover:

The Character Archaic

Produced by Pete & Judy Kerestan

Printing & Layout by Jerry Wellfonder

Art Work by Brad Schenck

1st Printing Sept. 1975

Copyright 1975



Image





The back cover contains"ITEMS OF INTEREST CURRENTLY AVAILABLE"



The Dungeon Master's Kit

The Quest Kit

Character Sheets

Custom Casting



"IN THE WORKS"

Dungeon Walls



Image





Of course, being somewhat perplexed about the differences noted, I emailed Pete and received the following reply:





-----Original Message-----

From: Pete Kerestan

Sent: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 06:38:01 -0700

Subject: Re: Good news. eBay item #5263694435 1975 First Player Character Record Shee...



Hi Jeff, Yes the copy you have is from the first pull of the product before the final version mix was decided on. It is actually from the print run done in 1974 and not the 1975 sales version. I was still in the army when we ran the first sheets and was assigned to DIS duty in EL Segundo where my wife's cousin had a print shop. He ran the first sheets for this product. I ended up reassigned to FT Ord after that and it wasn't until Feb of 75 that I left the army to set up my hobby shop. After setting up my own little AB Dick 360 printing press I started to print my own products. It was at that time I contacted TSR and started selling my products through them. In 1977 I contracted a print shop in Morro Bay to do my products as I became totally involved in real estate sales and computers. I'll include this info in the letter I am doing up for you. So you indeed have something that is special when looking at the history of products in our hobby.  Pete



--------------------------



I also did request and get a notarized letter from Pete stating as much described above, but would be quite interested in others findings and thoughts on this!

  


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Post Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 8:38 pm 
 

Reposting the Sleuth's post on the other thread:

sleuth2000 wrote:My copy of The Character Archaic (1st print, Sept. 1975, distributed by TSR) has a list of "items of interest currently avalaible". These are:

  1. The Dungeon Master's Kit: "Set includes 10 map sheets allowing for greater playing speed; a pre-factored sheet of monsters for the Dungeon Master's use or for solo play; pre-planned treasures (pretty to look at but watch what you touch)."
    The name and description make it quite clear that this is the "Palace of the Vampire Queen" module. It was listed here a bit in advance, as to my knowledge this module would not be issued until 1976.
    The end of the description was blackened out. It would read: "The kit comes by level - 1 through 5 - state desired level when ordering." It looks like this module was initially planned to be sold level by level, but the idea was dropped.
  2. The Quest Kit: "10 maps (9 different player maps and 1 master map for the Controler's use - only he knows where anyone is); a sheet of pre-factored, pre-programmed beings to encounter; and a sheet of interesting items located on the map area."
    I did not see any other reference to this "Quest Kit" on other products I own. My guess is that the description should more or less match another early game from the Wee Warriors, though there could have been changes between the time this description was made and the time the product was issued, if the project was not dropped altogether. Any idea ?
  3. Character Sheets: "Individual character sheets available in packs of 20 by type. Use the color code when ordering. Sheets are pre-punched for use in standard 3-ring binders as well as in this book." A "$1" was stamped next to the description, and an additional note says that these sheets ONLY could be ordered and paid to Pete Kerestan.
    Sheets from the Character Archaic are pre-puched and have different colors depending on character types -- though there are not as many different colors as there are types. The most likely explanation is that these were simply extra sheets for the Character Archaic. Otherwise, how could the buyer know the "color code" ?

sleuth2000.

  


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Post Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 8:50 pm 
 

FWIW, I don't have a Character Archaic and so I wont be able to help much in this discussion, but that thing is absolutely awesome! :o   I have now changed my mind and will seriously consider paying $450.00 for Character record sheets in the future. Unreal, very sweet Jeff. :D


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Post Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:00 pm 
 

Thank you, Jeff!
No "distributed by TSR" on your copy, of course.

*g*. Well I recognise that email from Pete recycled in the one I received later. Will add a note to correct those dates, later, but if there's a one year Judges Guild-style slippage throughout I'd be happier with regards PotVQ, too.

*re-reads that bit about "pack of 20 character sheets"*, aside

Should be asleep now.... zzz... ;)

  

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Post Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 2:43 am 
 

yes, a very nice item indeed. with that product sheet *watches everyone increase their ebay search values* - i agree with BC - something most definately worth shelling out the $$$ for!

i will be very interested now to see if this now has a settling effect on the PotVQ dates too, so we can finally put it all to rest.

Al



  


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Post Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:45 am 
 

My copy has the textured covers as per the Acaeum picture. Covers from the digest size versions of the 3 DM Kits have a similar texture.

It contains:
  • Cover. The top hole digs into the spearhead on the outside cover. Exact same wording as the prepub version of the inside cover.
  • Character Roll Call
  • 25 character sheets: 6 blue (2 * female wizard with wand, 2 * dwarf wizard with spiky staff, 1 wanderer wizard with walking staff, 1 black & white wizard with rod pointing at the reader), 3 light yellow (3 * half-human priest with holy cross and food), 16 goldenrod (2 * halfling with sword & sling, 2 * dwarf with shield & spear, 2 * elf with bow & arrow, 2 * halfling with walking stick, 2 * defending thief with eye patch & sword, 2 * female elf with long spear & shield, 2 * middle east fighter with twisted sword, 2 * defending fighter with short sword & shield) -- descriptions are far from perfect, but they should allow for comparison between sets
  • Blank page
  • Combat Matrix Reference
  • Wizard's Tomb map
  • Creature Encounters: this is just an empty table, like the Character Roll Call.
  • Blank page
  • Back cover. Lines of text are slightly wider than in the prepub version. The last sentence from the DM Kit description has been blackened out. Prices are not printed and a $1 stamp was added next to the "character sheets" entry. There is Pete's address in Morro Bay where you would send check or money to order Character Sheets ONLY -- maybe the rest was exclusively TSR, -- and the "Distributed exclusivly by TSR Hobbies, Inc." (sic) at the bottom.

I'm missing the metal fasteners and one of the sheets had been written upon and then erased, so I cannot know whether it is complete and if pages are in correct order.

As opposed to the prepub version, mine "misses": "Custom Casting" and "Dungeon Walls" descriptions from the back cover -- I'd be insterested to have a transcript, -- and the Cosmic Frog Productions ad.

Also, it would be nice if other people would compare their sets of character sheets to mine -- maybe these were included in a more or less random fashion.

Regards,

sleuth2000.

========= EDIT =========

Added precisions regarding blank pages and metal fasteners.

  


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Post Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:52 am 
 

Jeff, that is a goldmine.  Congrats!  Do you have a nose for these things, or did you get some info from Pete before the auction ended?

  


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Post Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 4:32 pm 
 

My CA is very much the same as described by sleuth2000.  The page order is different, and there is no walking staff wizard sheet (missing and/or presumed dead).  The only significant difference is on the inside rear cover.  The only thing it says is "Distributed exclusively by TSR Hobbies, Inc."

  


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Post Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:00 pm 
 

afoolandhis$ wrote:Jeff, that is a goldmine. Congrats! Do you have a nose for these things, or did you get some info from Pete before the auction ended?

Thanks Stephen,

Sniff, sniff.... Ah, I'll just call it dumb luck.  8)

  

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Post Posted: Tue Nov 01, 2005 11:48 pm 
 

Okay, I went into storage to get out my copies.

1st Print:

Everything the same as indicated by sleuth2000 but missing a blank page before the Combat Matrix Reference and the Wizard's Tomb Map is the last page before two additional blank pages.  Item has been unassembled and reassembled, presumably to copy sheets.

2nd Print:

Possibly the rarer of the two, at least based upon what Rhea Shelley indicated to me.  I haven't seen or heard of another yet.  Anyone else have one?

*Cover, textured manila cardstock.  Three hole punched at top but stapled center-top.

* Inside cover states the following, in hand-written text:

       The Character Archaic
Produced by Pete & Judy Kerestan
              Art by Morno
        Second Printing: April
                   1977
           Copyright 1975

Below this is a small boxed-in advertisement about the size of a business card with text and a drawing of a dwarf which states:

BOARD GAMES / RULES / FIGURES / 15-120mm
CUSTOM PAINTED FIGURES
864 HIGUERA
SAN LUIS OBISPO, CA
93401 (This zip code is in an incredibly small font so I'm not sure, even with a magnifying glass!)
OPEN 11-5
CLOSED MON.
(905)
544-2106
Pete Kerestan
Imagination Specialist  (Cool Title!)
Wee Warriors
Morno '76

* (24) 8.5 X 14 landscape formatted goldenrod character sheets, all the same with multiple character types across the top.  All the pages are folded 1/3 the way from the right.

*No rear cover.

That's it!  Pretty simple compared to the 1st printing.  I've thought about contacting Pete to get some more of the history behind this printing and to see if it is complete.

  


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:23 am 
 

Howdy All,


My copy has the textured covers as with the Acaeum description.

The copyright page is as follows:

       The Character Archaic

 Produced by Pete & Judy Kerestan
Printing & Layout by Jerry Wellfonder
      Art Work by Brad Schenck
        First Printing Sept. 1975

            Copyright 1975

Blank white page.

29 character sheets:
-10 blue (2 of female wizard with wand, 2 of wizard with mace-like staff, 2 of wizard with walking staff, 2 of wizard casting with right hand)
-3 light yellow (3 of human cleric with cross and haunch)
-16 goldenrod (2 of halfling with sword & sling, 2 of dwarf with shield & spear, 2 of elf with bow & arrow, 2 of halfling with walking stick, 2 of defending thief with eye patch & sword, 2 of female elf with long spear & shield, 2 of middle east fighter with twisted sword, 2 of defending fighter with short sword & shield)

Blank white page

Wizard's Tomb map

Combat Matrix Reference

Creature Encounters

Character Roll Call

Inside back cover:
-Last sentence from the DM Kit description has NOT been blackened out.
-Products include: The Dungeon Master's Kit, The Quest Kit, and Character Sheets
-Prices not listed for products
-Address in Morro Bay
-"Distributed exclusivly by TSR Hobbies, Inc."


Futures Bright,

Paul


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:42 am 
 

stormber wrote:Inside back cover:
-Last sentence from the DM Kit description has NOT been blackened out.
-Prices not listed
-Address in Morro Bay
-"Distributed exclusivly by TSR Hobbies, Inc."

Thank you, Paul. That's the bit I was waiting to hear.

Jeff, could you confirm the last line is missing from your copy and any other interesting comparison points, aside from the prices listed/not listed difference.

  


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 2:36 am 
 

dbartman wrote:Below this is a small boxed-in advertisement about the size of a business card with text and a drawing of a dwarf which states:

BOARD GAMES / RULES / FIGURES / 15-120mm
CUSTOM PAINTED FIGURES
864 HIGUERA
SAN LUIS OBISPO, CA
93401 (This zip code is in an incredibly small font so I'm not sure, even with a magnifying glass!)
OPEN 11-5
CLOSED MON.
(905)
544-2106
Pete Kerestan
Imagination Specialist (Cool Title!)
Wee Warriors
Morno '76


I have something similar on one of the cut-up sheets from "The Village", (c)1977.

dbartman wrote:* (24) 8.5 X 14 landscape formatted goldenrod character sheets, all the same with multiple character types across the top. All the pages are folded 1/3 the way from the right.


I'd be most interested if harami2000 would post scans of his "special" Wee Warriors character sheet for us to compare with both printings from the Character Archaic, see:
http://www.acaeum.com/forum/about2894.html

sleuth2000

  


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 2:44 am 
 

stormber wrote:29 character sheets:
-10 blue (2 of female wizard with wand, 2 of wizard with mace-like staff, 2 of wizard with walking staff, 2 of wizard casting with right hand)
-3 light yellow (3 of human cleric with cross and haunch)
-16 goldenrod (2 of halfling with sword & sling, 2 of dwarf with shield & spear, 2 of elf with bow & arrow, 2 of halfling with walking stick, 2 of defending thief with eye patch & sword, 2 of female elf with long spear & shield, 2 of middle east fighter with twisted sword, 2 of defending fighter with short sword & shield)

Ok, these are the same sheets as mine, my "dwarf wizard with spiky staff" is your "wizard with mace-like staff", my "black & white wizard with rod pointing at the reader" is your "wizard casting with right hand", and my "half-human priest with holy cross and food" is your "human cleric with cross and haunch".
However, you mention 10 blue sheets, and quote only 8. What do those other two sheets represent ?

stormber wrote:Inside back cover:
-Last sentence from the DM Kit description has NOT been blackened out.
-Products include: The Dungeon Master's Kit, The Quest Kit, and Character Sheets
-Prices not listed for products
-Address in Morro Bay
-"Distributed exclusivly by TSR Hobbies, Inc."

I would conclude that our sets were the same "printing" but mine was actually distributed later than yours.

sleuth2000.

  


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:00 pm 
 

harami2000 wrote:Jeff, could you confirm the last line is missing from your copy and any other interesting comparison points, aside from the prices listed/not listed difference.


Correct David, that line is absent and there's no reference at all to TSR.  

I can post another picture of the rear cover if it will assist with this research.  Differences are product listings,prices, and lack of TSR mention.

  


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 2:26 pm 
 

a2jeff wrote:
harami2000 wrote:Jeff, could you confirm the last line is missing from your copy and any other interesting comparison points, aside from the prices listed/not listed difference.


Correct David, that line is absent and there's no reference at all to TSR.

:)

a2jeff wrote:I can post another picture of the rear cover if it will assist with this research. Differences are product listings,prices, and lack of TSR mention.

Please.

  


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 6:36 pm 
 

Here's three additional pictures:

Morno ad
Image


Rear inside cover:
Image

Another of the rear inside cover:
Image

The other noticeable difference is Pete's wording around mail orders and address in Long Beach. :idea:

  

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Post Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 7:22 pm 
 

sleuth2000 wrote:
I have something similar on one of the cut-up sheets from "The Village", (c)1977.

I'd be most interested if harami2000 would post scans of his "special" Wee Warriors character sheet for us to compare with both printings from the Character Archaic, see:
http://www.acaeum.com/forum/about2894.html

sleuth2000


Don't have "The Village".  Would be interested to know more about it. Maybe another thread sometime?

Would also like to see or get some info on what harami2000 has. I've seen the one that burntwire posted and it's not the same. That one is possibly a prototype or early concept.

Here's the original link to that one:

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/[email protected] ... .dir=/3c84

  


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:13 pm 
 

dbartman wrote:Would also like to see or get some info on what harami2000 has. I've seen the one that burntwire posted and it's not the same. That one is possibly a prototype or early concept.

Here's the original link to that one:

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/[email protected] ... .dir=/3c84


(Should hopefully be amongst the items to pick up from the postal depot, tomorrow).





Looks like the same one to me, Doug.

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/[email protected] ... pg&.src=ph

vs.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... otohosting



In which case, I'd better ask Burnie Bros. whether the other copy was identical (as is implied).

Certainly looked good for a 1975/6 timeframe, given the find context; viewtopic.php?p=34145&lighter=#34145

  

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Post Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:10 pm 
 

harami2000 wrote:Looks like the same one to me, Doug.
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/[email protected] ... pg&.src=ph
vs.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... otohosting

In which case, I'd better ask Burnie Bros. whether the other copy was identical (as is implied).
Certainly looked good for a 1975/6 timeframe, given the find context; viewtopic.php?p=34145&lighter=#34145




Sorry, I hope I didn't confuse anyone.  That is the same one.  I meant that the one burntwire posted pictures of, and David is now waiting for, aren't the same as the sheets in the Character Archaic 2nd printing that I have.   As mentioned, it could be an earlier incarnation though.

  
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