PaulofCthulhu wrote:I was the losing bid in this particular auction. If I had won it, I would have asked for permission to release it as a freely available PDF. Of course there was no guarantee you would have said yes! - but that was the plan.
harami2000 wrote:Presuming that "American Gothic" wasn't started until 1979(?) or thereabouts, was this a totally separate parallel development to the other material you were working on, then? ("Other material" pushing more towards RQ with your own system ideas and reworkings ("mana", rune-based, etc.) bubbling-through from time-to-time?). Ethesis wrote:American Gothic actually got started without a rules set at all, then we had a "d20" type game, played with 3d6, kind of GURPish.... It would have been around 79 or so, that is when Sandy had his RQ campaign rolling and we were back together at BYU (I had been at CSULA so we had not seen each other for a while).
Ethesis wrote:American Gothic actually got started without a rules set at all, then we had a "d20" type game, played with 3d6, kind of GURPish.... It would have been around 79 or so, that is when Sandy had his RQ campaign rolling and we were back together at BYU (I had been at CSULA so we had not seen each other for a while).
invincibleoverlord wrote:Well this is when things got crazy! Do you guys have some secret-circle of Billy Gates CoC collectors? That above mentioned Ebay'er leaked my personal e-mail to either again this secret brotherhood of cash or the entire CoC scene, and these "BIG GUNS" came forward. I'm not going to exactly quote what the highest standing offer is on the table, but I will say it's staggering. More than what the entire Marsh auctions went for combined . I'm honestly sitting here writing this feeling bad. If this thing was advertised on a CoC board before the auction ended, Stephen could have more than doubled the profits. Or maybe this is just some kind of post auction scramble. I just don't know what to say . I guess I should be happy, but the taste is bittersweet.
Ethesis wrote:Instead of a rules set (and you've seen the 100+ pages that is a rules set) all there was was the rules he got, which is far fewer than 200-300 pages of manuscript.We started with just what was really an outline of rules, if that makes any sense. What went at auction.
Ethesis wrote:Visit my website for an idea of what I consider a bit more mature set of rules.
Ethesis wrote:Bottom line, more than enough rules for Sandy to run a campaign, but not what I'd send to a publisher, if that makes any sense. If I'd known collectors were going to be buying them years later, I'd have done something more complete Guess I'm embarassed that I didn't do a more complete job, but they were good enough for us to use and get things started.
harami2000 wrote:(oh, and thanks for editing that long line of sarcasm out just in time for it not to show as an edit, Paul.)
stormber wrote:I didn't want to clutter the board with it. Meant to delete it prior to submitting it. My bad.
stormber wrote:The CoC board knew about it well before the auction end and just basically blew it. One guy promised if he won it, he'd post it as a free PDF. Now they regret it and the post auction frenzy is on. Sad to say but you can only sell unique items once. Invincible had the proper conviction and he won. Good one Mike.Futures Bright,Paul
stormber wrote:Howdy,invincibleoverlord wrote:Or maybe this is just some kind of post auction scramble. I just don't know what to say . I guess I should be happy, but the taste is bittersweet.The CoC board knew about it well before the auction end and just basically blew it. One guy promised if he won it, he'd post it as a free PDF. Now they regret it and the post auction frenzy is on. Paul
invincibleoverlord wrote:Or maybe this is just some kind of post auction scramble. I just don't know what to say . I guess I should be happy, but the taste is bittersweet.
killjoy32 wrote:stormber wrote:The CoC board knew about it well before the auction end and just basically blew it. One guy promised if he won it, he'd post it as a free PDF. Now they regret it and the post auction frenzy is on. Sad to say but you can only sell unique items once. Invincible had the proper conviction and he won. Good one Mike.Futures Bright,Pauli have to totally agree with Paul there. having an item like that prb doesnt come around like that too often in your life (well to us norms anyway). if you want it that much, you should put your money where your mouth is. If mike has any sense at all, he will keep hold of it regardless of its value - you've seen the post-auction frenzy already..... they missed their chance to have something that great and thats that.and as for stephen and his hindsight.....i think we would have all done something like that if we could whether it was a "loose set of rules" or not....do you think it means that much to the collector who has it now? i hardly think so anyway, what do i know
PaulofCthulhu wrote:I was the gent who said that if I won, I would have sought to release it as a PDF. As an advertised American Gothic It would have been nice to share.
PaulofCthulhu wrote:Still, well done the winner! It sounds like a nice piece of CoC ephemera!
PaulofCthulhu wrote:BTW, please don't mistake conviction for not having the deepest pockets. If I was a millionaire I likely may have bid more...
Mike; what exactly do you have there? (And have I got the right end of the stick in that previous post, Steve?).
Am still waiting for Mike's response on my queries, above. (Please...).
invincibleoverlord wrote:I hope this helps to get the research started as like yourself we're Historians first and Collector$ second. WE have also made the decision to keep the manuscript regardless of is value it is truly an amazing piece of RPG history.
Steve Marsh (on yog-sothoth.com) wrote:With some of the criticism and anger, I'm almost sorry I didn't just throw the stuff away. I'm about to clean out the storage unit and am rethinking sending anything else to Paul instead of throwing it out. Who needs the hostility?
harami2000 wrote:OK, Paul...You bit me hard in return when I stated that you had taken the Mystic character class ruleset from its original context in the Cupric Text mss. and presented it as though the other pages were "lost to time".I did not believe you, then, when you stated that you could not find the original context, since that would have been a trivial task.Feel free to maintain that position if you wish.However, for the Cupric Text installment (and all the others were all neatly stacked) immediately following the Mystic Rules to have also "jumped out" in order to form another apparently self-sustaining entity for your auction of Steve's work (purely for marketing purposes?) is further reprehensible (as mild as I can put it), in my eyes, not just because it never WAS a self-sustaining entity, but because that also distorts the meaning of those five pages, loses vital links in RPG history and creates a new false context for the genesis of a much-loved system. (n.b. Even if there is "no apparent "claim" that those five pages are an "American Gothic" ruleset as such", as I stated, above).Sorry, but your sales pitch on that particular auction stinks (to put it politely).Developed by Stephen Marsh and Sandy Peterson, the manuscript are some D&D compatible Cthulhu creatures and classes: Mycenean Thought Crafters, Lightwalkers, and True Salamanders. Later these creatures, classes, and abilities would form the basis for the original Call of Cthulhu roleplaying game published by Chaosium... Now you can own a piece of the original development of American Gothic and ultimately the Call of Cthulhu game.*In fact, commenting about "D&D compatible Cthulhu creatures" put myself- and perhaps others- off, because that simply did not make any sense.(Mike; is Sandy Petersen (sic) even mentioned by name in that mss.? The idea for such an "American Gothic" campaign is all Steve's, to the best of my knowledge).Paul; If you had asked a few questions and still chosen to sell just the one page merely (and clearly) as the "first mention of 'American Gothic'", I know the final bid would have been higher.But that would still have needed the correct original context... (and personally keeping everything together would have made a lot more sense).
mbassoc2003 wrote:Surely if you own an item, you are free to sell it in whatever manner you so desire? Provided neither the buyer nor seller are disappointed with the transaction, I see no reason to quibble over the 'advertising' and distribution of the lots.I fail to see the purpose of the continued Paul bashing.
harami2000 wrote:(And I noted the bit about feeling you were being called as a "witness", too, Steve... Yes, sorry; agreed with that, but that was necessary to try to pull everything back into its original context. I think I finally have that now; well, for the Planes, Revenaunt, Cupric Text campaign, Specialist Mages and the above, at least).Any "hostility" (and, indeed, it is more "frustration") is directed at Paul (on an "issues" basis) for managing to get almost every single ms. auction description "out of context" and hyped-up with inaccuracies (for whatever reason). The manner in which the manuscripts were split didn't exactly "help", either.Please take that as an indication that people actually care about your contributions to RPG development; and, yes, you are obviously the key witness to that.(And if there are any pages (/character sheets/etc.) specific to "American Gothic" still extant, either yourself or Sandy are presumably still in possession of those).Best wishes to y'all,David.