Record call of Cthulhu Rules price...
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Post Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:17 pm 
 

harami2000 wrote:
harami2000 wrote:Very true. Guess some people fail san and spend ;)

Hey, at least they're "happy". :P

*gibbers*

Ethesis wrote:Sandy and I have corresponded and been friends since abou 1974 or so. Busy some times or distracted ... but he is great and his wife and kids are the best.

:D

Why do I suspect there's another story or a ten about bouncing ideas off each other, as well as the good times in those ol' dungeoneering sessions?

How few ideas actually made it into print and the means by which they did so is something which is rather difficult to imagine nowadays when it's so much "easier" to get material published (and prolly swamped in the morass of mediocrity ;))
*
Have been talking a bit with the Snider brothers from Arneson's group (don't know whether you know them, but you get the "talented" thumbs-up!) and the volume of ideas and even "ready to publish" material which never saw the light of day or were "edited to fit" is a crying shame.
Suspect you can empathise with that...

=
p.s. I wonder whether Sandy kept a copy of any of those vampire, etc., rulesets he sent to EGG? Ever ask??


You need to remember I started doing FRPG rules in 1969, mostly boardgame based in concept (I had never encountered minatures until I met Sandy in the early 70s).  

American Gothic actually got started without a rules set at all, then we had a "d20" type game, played with 3d6, kind of GURPish.  My first character was a defrocked Jesuit Priest with an int of 18.  Much to my surprise, my second character (same scenario) was my first every character with a STR of 18 (My first D&D character was a magic-user whose high characteristic was his CHA of 12).  He actually beat the menace to death with an ax after the first character died trying to out-think it.

It would have been around 79 or so, that is when Sandy had his RQ campaign rolling and we were back together at BYU (I had been at CSULA so we had not seen each other for a while).  That was when if you had a SIZ of 18 you could train CON and STR up to 18 too.  "obviously" using the roll a character and then grow him three points meant that you wanted SIZ and to grow it to 18.  Everything else could be trained.  You know where that went, an Orlanthi rulelord in the 18s or better, who could shapechange into a sylph (yeah heroquests).

We ran lots of other stuff on the side.  CoC finished up just about the time Sandy when to San Francisco for graduate school.  We play tested it and Stormbringer (and they changed both sets of rules as a result).

I don't know what happened with the vampire rules.  I don't remember much about them.  I also did a set for undead.  You start as a wight and get less and less physical until you became a spectre.  *any* level draining effects and you were dead.  The more physical you were, the easier you hit other undead (to get the Chainmail effect that wights beat spectres).


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Stephen

  


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Post Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 4:24 pm 
 

Stephen,

Holy Molly 8O , you're on this board! I had know Idea. It looks like about the time you joined I was at the beginning of my hiatus.

First off please forgive me. That above post was in no way bragging about the now extremely inflated value of the manuscript. Believe me; all of our crew is as dumfounded over this as you are.

What's even crazier is the persistence of these CoC collectors, not just with their staggering offer's, but almost daily e-mails about the contents of this manuscript. This truly must be the "Holy-Grail" of CoC RPG collecting.

No decision has been made as of yet, but we are leaning towards keeping it. We really enjoy all of the items we won form your auction, and feel as I've stated in the past a steward of these treasures. I myself especially love the "Original Alignment Notes". Just to think when I'm holding those two pages in my hand, that these very notes even ring true today in not only Paper and Pencil gaming, but the millions of on-line gamers where alignment is still incorporated. It truly is a landmark concept and document.
I have to admit as was reading over the two hand-written sheets of graph-paper, and I envisioned a man sitting at his dinning room table scribbling out this concept with no idea of how many lives these two pieces of paper are going to touch. Could you ever have imagined? If you asked me I'd say this was the most important document of your auction. We are planning on having it professionally framed to show both pages, and will hang in a place of honor in the new Hall.

If you're ever in South Florida and want to stop-on-by we'd be honored as well.

Mike


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Post Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:10 pm 
 

*quick hijack of your post to Steve if you don't mind, Mike*

invincibleoverlord wrote:First off please forgive me. That above post was in no way bragging about the now extremely inflated value of the manuscript.

*chuckles*. Steve's a good guy! Far too humble for this board! :D
Came over when I played silent with Ian for long enough that Paul had to go ask the man with the answers (unless Ian asked him directly).

Hey, you've missed a lot, Mike (some of which is probably best skipped over!).
Can't remember exactly when you took that break, but I have the other "lost pages" of the Mystic rules, btw; 'cept they're "not there", of course...

invincibleoverlord wrote:This truly must be the "Holy-Grail" of CoC RPG collecting.

'Cept that it's not CoC; just a kinda fundamental step to its development (and noted in press, per that DW article, as such).

Out of interest, is it /really/ that close to D&D, without Steve's other house rules and other ideas?
(Would be surprised if none of those I've got partial copies of, here, are not represented in some fashion).

invincibleoverlord wrote:No decision has been made as of yet, but we are leaning towards keeping it.

*envisions CoC fans flocking to your museum, just to see that* :P
*lol*

Would get a major thumbs-up from here if you went with that call, fwiw.

invincibleoverlord wrote:We really enjoy all of the items we won form your auction, and feel as I've stated in the past a steward of these treasures. I myself especially love the "Original Alignment Notes". Just to think when I'm holding those two pages in my hand, that these very notes even ring true today in not only Paper and Pencil gaming, but the millions of on-line gamers where alignment is still incorporated. It truly is a landmark concept and document....

*coughs* :P
(OK; enough already, Mike! :D) ...please! ;)

Yup. Agreed with you there...
Think you should probably have that other typed bit from Steve that goes with it, though, even if the explanation/background is fully covered by the two pages you have.

(*chuckles*. And, of course, going for that one auction meant I didn't put in bids on one or two other mid-high value ones... ;))

  


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Post Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:21 pm 
 

harami2000 wrote:*envisions CoC fans flocking to your museum, just to see that* :P *lol*


A scene in Ft Lauderdale, 2005...after "The Hall" opens.

Image


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Post Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:33 pm 
 

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  is that the trash-mountain on Sample Rd in the background??? have you seen it lately? It's almost that size now 8O  :lol:  :lol:


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Post Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:43 pm 
 

MrFilthyIke wrote:A scene in Ft Lauderdale, 2005...after "The Hall" opens.
invincibleoverlord wrote::lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: is that the trash-mountain on Sample Rd in the background??? have you seen it lately? It's almost that size now 8O :lol: :lol:

*LOL @ the pic*. Thanks! :D
That's the trouble trying to hide anything in FL!

(Sorry, but I was darned glad to see /anything/ like a hill, after six weeks :?).

=
Heh, heh... Which reminds me; one of Steve's pics in the bundle I've got has a castle on a hill with an huge octopoid critter looming behind.
D'you think if I made that look a bit more Cthulhoid, one of yer CoC contacts (/fans/fanatics?) would pay $1k for it? :P :P

  


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Post Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:47 pm 
 

harami2000 wrote:(Sorry, but I was darned glad to see /anything/ like a hill, after six weeks :?).


Imagine being born and raised in Miami, Florida.  8O

I get excited at hills.  Mountains are NEAT to me.  :P


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Post Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 6:00 pm 
 

invincibleoverlord wrote:Stephen,

Holy Molly 8O , you're on this board! I had know Idea. It looks like about the time you joined I was at the beginning of my hiatus.

First off please forgive me. That above post was in no way bragging about the now extremely inflated value of the manuscript. Believe me; all of our crew is as dumfounded over this as you are.

What's even crazier is the persistence of these CoC collectors, not just with their staggering offer's, but almost daily e-mails about the contents of this manuscript. This truly must be the "Holy-Grail" of CoC RPG collecting.

No decision has been made as of yet, but we are leaning towards keeping it. We really enjoy all of the items we won form your auction, and feel as I've stated in the past a steward of these treasures. I myself especially love the "Original Alignment Notes". Just to think when I'm holding those two pages in my hand, that these very notes even ring true today in not only Paper and Pencil gaming, but the millions of on-line gamers where alignment is still incorporated. It truly is a landmark concept and document.
I have to admit as was reading over the two hand-written sheets of graph-paper, and I envisioned a man sitting at his dinning room table scribbling out this concept with no idea of how many lives these two pieces of paper are going to touch. Could you ever have imagined? If you asked me I'd say this was the most important document of your auction. We are planning on having it professionally framed to show both pages, and will hang in a place of honor in the new Hall.

If you're ever in South Florida and want to stop-on-by we'd be honored as well.

Mike


Much of what I was doing was writing for other game designers.  Greg Stafford once quipped that I had an audience of only four or five people I was writing for.

I have to note that Sandy is easily milder than I am.

Someone asked me how I could be happy, seeing what had happened with the value and my answer was that I was very pleased to see that someone else's faith had been rewarded.  you had the faith to bid for those notes and I feel some vindication, if that makes anysense (and, you can always send that fifty cents I asked for to my paypal account ;) ).

What I wanted was for the material to go to people who would enjoy it and find pleasure in it, and Paul accomplished that in spades.

Anyway, I'm glad you've enjoyed your purchase.  I had no idea that concept would go that far, though I *like* modern fantasy with Cthulhu mythos elements.

Regards,

Stephen


Regards,



Stephen

  


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Post Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 7:02 pm 
 

invincibleoverlord wrote: This truly must be the "Holy-Grail" of CoC RPG collecting.


I'm inclined to think that it's more likely to be Sandy's own draft copy of the 1st edition rules.

If we're actually talking "Holy Grail" - I would imagine that to be Lovecraft's own handwritten ms. of a set of Cthulhu game rules.

Holy Grails do not always necessarily exist. :)

Paul



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Post Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 7:05 pm 
 

PaulofCthulhu wrote:Holy Grails do not always necessarily exist. :)


Too true, but if it did...$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$  8O  :D


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Post Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 7:10 pm 
 

Ethesis wrote:What I wanted was for the material to go to people who would enjoy it and find pleasure in it, and Paul accomplished that in spades.


I was the losing bid in this particular auction. If I had won it, I would have asked for permission to release it as a freely available PDF. Of course there was no guarantee you would have said yes! - but that was the plan.

Still, congratulations to the winners, it sounds like it's bringing you pleasure.

Paul



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Post Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 7:11 pm 
 

MrFilthyIke wrote:
PaulofCthulhu wrote:Holy Grails do not always necessarily exist. :)


Too true, but if it did...$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ 8O :D


We'll send one of our Yithian agents to sort that out...  :wink:



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Post Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 7:11 pm 
 

PaulofCthulhu wrote:If I had won it, I would have asked for permission to release it as a freely available PDF. Of course there was no guarantee you would have said yes! - but that was the plan.


That'd be neat to see! Were it to ever happen. ;)


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Post Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 7:31 pm 
 

This thread may also be of interest, it also links to the eBay auction that can still be viewed:

Sorry, we couldn't find what you're looking for...



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Post Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 7:40 pm 
 

PaulofCthulhu wrote:This thread may also be of interest, it also links to the eBay auction that can still be viewed:

Sorry, we couldn't find what you're looking for...

Kind of cool seeing members form here and there kind of corresponding in an indirect way. :D   I also notice some very familiar names over there as well. :wink: Interesting.


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Post Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 7:49 pm 
 

Too true...it's killing me that I can't access Yog here at work.  :x


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Post Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 7:49 pm 
 

PaulofCthulhu wrote:I was the losing bid in this particular auction. If I had won it, I would have asked for permission to release it as a freely available PDF. Of course there was no guarantee you would have said yes! - but that was the plan.

Am fairly certain Steve would've been AOK with publishing those online, for reference. Asked about that for the items I'd picked up.

Thanks, Paul. I'd lost the auction URL (since I'd reached my $ limit for snipes!).
Yes, that format now looks exceptionally familiar (since I've got the rest of the "Misc. Notes", as Steve mentioned ;))

Mike, is that entirely "American Gothic" rather than that part of the Cupric Text campaign which was the closest lead-into this? (I know I'm missing some from those, and the 1977 date would tally). *squints to try to read the fuzzy text scan*
(Mike <improvstone>, Ian and myself all have refs to those creatures/classes elsewhere in the material we picked up, for obvious reasons).


And Steve had said there was no ruleset at first for American Gothic either, no?
I deliberately checked on the date, in passing...
harami2000 wrote:Presuming that "American Gothic" wasn't started until 1979(?) or thereabouts, was this a totally separate parallel development to the other material you were working on, then? ("Other material" pushing more towards RQ with your own system ideas and reworkings ("mana", rune-based, etc.) bubbling-through from time-to-time?).
Ethesis wrote:American Gothic actually got started without a rules set at all, then we had a "d20" type game, played with 3d6, kind of GURPish.... It would have been around 79 or so, that is when Sandy had his RQ campaign rolling and we were back together at BYU (I had been at CSULA so we had not seen each other for a while).

OK, am slightly puzzled now. *waits and listens*

=
"Developed by Stephen Marsh and Sandy Peterson, the manuscript are some D&D compatible Cthulhu creatures and classes"

Are there any refs. in there, beyond the list of monsters/classes noted?
(Was one of the reasons, other than $, that I decided not to have a stab at that lot...).

  


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Post Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:18 pm 
 

Instead of a rules set (and you've seen the 100+ pages that is a rules set) all there was was the rules he got, which is far fewer than 200-300 pages of manuscript.

We started with just what was really an outline of rules, if that makes any sense.  What went at auction.

Visit my website for an idea of what I consider a bit more mature set of rules.

Bottom line, more than enough rules for Sandy to run a campaign, but not what I'd send to a publisher, if that makes any sense.  If I'd known collectors were going to be buying them years later, I'd have done something more complete  :oops:

Guess I'm embarassed that I didn't do a more complete job, but they were good enough for us to use and get things started.


Regards,



Stephen

  


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Post Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:19 pm 
 

Anyway, no rules set, just some rules.

Mistworld is inbetween "just rules" and a rules set, Shattered Norns (on-line) is a rules set.


Regards,



Stephen

  


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Post Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:35 pm 
 

Howdy,


invincibleoverlord wrote:Well this is when things got crazy! Do you guys have some secret-circle of Billy Gates CoC collectors? That above mentioned Ebay'er leaked my personal e-mail to either again this secret brotherhood of cash or the entire CoC scene, and these "BIG GUNS" came forward. I'm not going to exactly quote what the highest standing offer is on the table, but I will say it's staggering. More than what the entire Marsh auctions went for combined 8O . I'm honestly sitting here writing this feeling bad. If this thing was advertised on a CoC board before the auction ended, Stephen could have more than doubled the profits. Or maybe this is just some kind of post auction scramble. I just don't know what to say :? . I guess I should be happy, but the taste is bittersweet.


I contacted several members of the CoC board to advertise to them. They brought it to the attention of the whole board. Even Sandy Peterson chimed in, confirming the manuscripts importance to the development in the game.

The CoC board knew about it well before the auction end and just basically blew it. One guy promised if he won it, he'd post it as a free PDF. Now they regret it and the post auction frenzy is on. Sad to say but you can only sell unique items once. Invincible had the proper conviction and he won. Good one Mike.


Futures Bright,

Paul


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