aia wrote in Lost Dungeons of Tonisborg - Considering Investment:I knew about this book when the first print was going out of print. I didnt buy it, don't ask me why... despite the fact this book has been thought and crafted as a high collectible item, it has never convinced me... i feel that my concerns are not related to the quality of the product but to the contents: i don't see this mega dungeon as a piece of rpg history...
aia wrote in Lost Dungeons of Tonisborg - Considering Investment:Hello, your post confirmed me that i took the right decision in not buying the book for collecting purposes. I have never trusted people selling their books with a value proposition of a future collectible. A collectible item is defined by the market and not by the publisher: you took the example of PatW for instance. Well, Jon wrote and sold that book without mentioning it will be a collectible. Now, after few years it has already that status and this is reflected in the price. The other way round doesn't work to my eyes. You should not produce a book for a purpose it is not the hands of the publisher.That is the only concern that i have for this item, nothing against contents (despite it would be interesting to have more details as this story is not known).Thanks in any case for jumping in the conversation.No offense intended, ciao
Secrets of Blackmoor wrote in Lost Dungeons of Tonisborg - Considering Investment:Il significato e che questo dungeon era creato da uno degli piu importanti giocatori nel gruppo di Arneson.Prima di questo punto cerano solo, Arneson, Gygax, a Rob Kunts che erano capacili di essere Dungeon Masters. Deve essere tra i primi dungeon che erano fatti con regole che esistevano prima che il gioco e stato publicato.I dungeon masters di questo dungeon errano Greg Svenson ed anche David Megarry.Per me sembra molto importante. Pero, se tu pensi che non vale la pena non mi rompe le palle.
sauromatian wrote in Lost Dungeons of Tonisborg - Considering Investment:a-post a-scriptum: Extra points for identifying the De La Soul reference.
increment wrote in Lost Dungeons of Tonisborg - Considering Investment:My understanding is that the book reproduces twelve scans from the dungeon, with ten dungeon levels and two separate pages of keying material. I don't know if I'd really call a 10-level dungeon a "megadungeon," it seems to be the same number of levels Blackmoor had, but a bit fewer than Greyhawk. It's in keeping with dungeons of the early period, in other words.In terms of the backstory, it checks out. I certainly wouldn't say Greg Svenson was a nobody. Svenon was one of the key players in Blackmoor - see the Svenson’s Freehold write-up in the First Fantasy Campaign. That description mentions a Vestfold Dungeon, and elsewhere the FFC indicates that Tonisberg is a town controlled by the Earl of Vestfold (google Tønsberg for its real-life relationship to Vestfold). There is ample contemporary evidence that a Tonisberg (a name sometimes given as Tønisberg or Tonisbørg or what have you) dungeon created by Svenson was in circulation in the mid to late 1970s, and that it passed through Dave Megarry’s hands circa 1975. Arneson would also tell you that Svenson was the first person to DM for him.So why should we think these twelve scans are Svenson’s Tonisberg from back in the day? If I had blundered over these pages in an old filing cabinet with no further context, my assessment would have been that it was keyed from a 1974 production copy of D&D, but by someone who had apparently played in or had access to the draft 1973 material. There aren’t a lot of documents like that, which would make this very intriguing to me. The highly diagonal architecture of the dungeon, yes, very reminiscent of Blackmoor, would get me searching for a culprit who moved in the early Twin Cities circles rather than Lake Geneva. And the hand that wrote the key to the dungeon levels looks like Svenson’s to me. So again, to me, it checks out, even ignoring provenance. I can’t really think of any good-faith hypothesis that would work other than that this is Svenson’s mid-1970s Tonisberg.I view this kind of like Bottle City, of which a comparable amount of material survives (a four-panel map and nine pages of key, if I recall). It's not like we have a lot of Bottle Cities. These are objects well worthy of preservation and study.I would say it's better than my mom's lasanga.
increment wrote in Lost Dungeons of Tonisborg - Considering Investment:I would say it's better than my mom's lasanga.
increment wrote in Lost Dungeons of Tonisborg - Considering Investment:I view this kind of like Bottle City, of which a comparable amount of material survives (a four-panel map and nine pages of key, if I recall). It's not like we have a lot of Bottle Cities. These are objects well worthy of preservation and study.
mbassoc2003 wrote in Lost Dungeons of Tonisborg - Considering Investment:I'd be interested in reading reviews of people who actually use the book.At the moment in my mind I'm seeing this as peruasal work, like the History of Judges Guild was, or Art and Arcana maybe. Something to be browsed.The question in my mind is, is this a dungeon people can play? Like one of Gillespies dungeons?The half-and-half thing doesnt work for me.Now I gotta go and find my History of JG book and reaquaint myself with that book.
Deadlord wrote in Lost Dungeons of Tonisborg - Considering Investment:As far as collectibility, I'd compare it to a '70 hemi Barracuda restored with half the parts being "updated" with 2022 versions. Were I still collecting, I wouldn't put it on the shelf next to the brown box sets............
Cerulean Rex wrote in Lost Dungeons of Tonisborg - Considering Investment:There seems to be a good deal of confusion about what the content and purpose of Tonisborg actually is. Here is a pretty good interview with Greg Svenson and archaeologist D.H. Boggs about the books content in terms of what the dungeon is and what the rules set is. I would give it a watch if you have questions about that, or thoughts of this being some kind of 5E product.Greg Svenson & D.H. Boggs | Lost Dungeons of Tonisborg | Wandering DMs S04 E06 - YouTubeCheers!
aia wrote in Lost Dungeons of Tonisborg - Considering Investment:i don't like to be mocked
mbassoc2003 wrote in Lost Dungeons of Tonisborg - Considering Investment:I'd be interested in reading reviews of people who actually use the book.At the moment in my mind I'm seeing this as peruasal work, like the History of Judges Guild was, or Art and Arcana maybe. Something to be browsed.The question in my mind is, is this a dungeon people can play? Like one of Gillespies dungeons?
Cerulean Rex wrote in Lost Dungeons of Tonisborg - Considering Investment:aia,I will be more than happy to be perfectly clear with you and any and everyone else about my position on this topic. - I am in no way connected to, or part of the team responsible for the production of "The Lost Dungeons of Tonisborg" - I am in no way connected to, or part of the team responsible for the production of "The Secrets of Blackmoor"- I am in no way connected to, or part of "The Fellowship of the Thing" who are the producers of these works. - I am in no way in their employ for any sort of marketing. Not through monetary payment or goods or favors. - I am not them. They are not me.What I AM is a person who learns a great deal about a topic that he is interested in as deeply and quickly as he can. I get pretty enthusiastic about things when I am learning about exciting things. I DID come here seeking opinions about valuation. I believe that if you are going to have an intelligent conversation about valuation it needs to be one based on information about quality. So yes! I started off giving information and talking about quality. How are we going to have an intelligent discussion without a common frame of reference on the topical information?! Turns out that this body seemed fairly ignorant of the topic overall as well, so apparently it was necessary in order to have a valuable discussion. I got some good opinions based on knowledge. I learned things based on the curiosity of others and saw them also gain from the discussion. I also got some opinions that were more of the type: "I don't know and I don't want to know." I learned things from those opinions as well. I still am. Because this discussion is only a small part of the research into this topic that I have been doing over the last several days/weeks, I also had something to offer when someone else was looking for more information. I thought that the interview with Svenson and Boggs in the YouTube link would be helpful in answering the question that mbassoc2003 was asking. I still do. Because it is, sir. Now, personally speaking, I FEEL that the guys at Fellowship of the Thing are doing some great work here and that it is valuable to me, and frankly to the hobby overall. But that is them. They are big boys. If they want to come place and advertisement in the classified board, I would hope that they are welcome to do so. Either way that would not be my place. Now, aia, excuse me, but I get the sense that you don't want people talking about this topic for some kind of reason that might not have anything to do with SPAM or controlling advertising placement. I am getting that sense from the way you are trying to chill the conversation and the mood of the room rather than allow this to be a place that welcomes a free exchange of ideas. I am getting that sense from the way you have been extremely negative to the topic from the very start ... *** "i don't see this mega dungeon as a piece of rpg history...Because it is not by anyone involved in the d&d foundation... it is by an unknown guy who had fun at drawing lines on a paper trying to emulate the founders of this game" --- which was completely wrong!*** "Hello, your post confirmed me that i took the right decision in not buying the book for collecting purposes. I have never trusted people selling their books with a value proposition of a future collectible." --- the guy was answering my original question about future collectibility, so THATs not really fair is it?*** You also called on Jon Peterson for opinion which I thought was fantastic! Even then I was getting the sense that you were hoping he was going to trash it ... but then he didn't. You just stayed quiet and didn't even thank him for coming into it at your suggestion. I guess all of that is fine. I don't know what the source is here of you wanting to 'feel some kinda way'. More power to you, though, man. You do you. But now, I am going to make one more thing crystal clear here about my position ... Very respectfully, aia, no one here is trying to mock you. I don't know you. You are a senior member here and you might have the power to ban me. I don't know. At the end of the day, though, that is not what matters. Also very respectfully, sir, I am going to kindly suggest that you not try to bully me, silence me or make me feel 'less than'. On this point, no matter what happens, it is YOU ... who shall not ... pass. Dignity first and last. Your move, sir. :|
