I knew about this book when the first print was going out of print. I didnt buy it, don't ask me why... despite the fact this book has been thought and crafted as a high collectible item, it has never convinced me... i feel that my concerns are not related to the quality of the product but to the contents: i don't see this mega dungeon as a piece of rpg history...

Isn’t it just some guy trying to sell his rehashed homebrew megadungeon?
I can see that it’s been done before, after all, that’s what Rappan Athuk was, but RA isn’t a piece of D&D history just cos some guys played it as a campaign forty odd years ago, and RA’s selling point is that it is big and was published. It’s not that great a dungeon.
This one seems like hype and BS-flourish trumpeted to try to encourage sales.
I’ll wait for the PDF, which will come, regardless of what they say not to dampen their selling price.
They always do.

sauromatian wrote in Lost Dungeons of Tonisborg - Considering Investment:
Okay, but how could it not be?

Because it is not by anyone involved in the d&d foundation... it is by an  unknwon guy who had fun at drawing lines on a paper trying to emulate the founders of this game... with all respect to this guy, i don't see any value in this dungeon...
Then there is a second factor: it is purposedly done only for collectors, no standard editions... this is smtg i don't  like as i feel someone is moking with my ossessive-compulsive deviation...

mbassoc2003 wrote in Lost Dungeons of Tonisborg - Considering Investment:Yeah, but it’s by a guy who (allegedly) knew someone when he was a kid,

What are you on about? "Allegedly"? Are you seriously suggesting that Greg Svenson wasn't a player in the first ever descent into Blackmoor dungeon?

mbassoc2003 wrote in Lost Dungeons of Tonisborg - Considering Investment: Dave Arneson

'Dave Arneson'? Who's Dave Arneson? D&D is the creation of the hard-working stockholders of Hasbro Incorporated, & any attempt to suggest otherwise plays directly into the interest of socialists, free-love nudists, & other useless eaters.

dbartman wrote in Lost Dungeons of Tonisborg - Considering Investment:Paul Stormberg posted some additional info on Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/paul.stormberg ... d3q7iEq4Sl

Looks pretty good to me.

Yeah it looks like he is reposting from David MeGarry, creator of the fore-mentioned "Dungeon!" game if I recall correctly from the film.  (( Had to verify that after post. lol True }}

EDIT: So it was Megarry who lost the dungeon!!! I felt for him in that story. That had to be embarrassing. SMH

Well since i often see Increment (Jon) on these boards, i'd kindly ask him to add info about this megadungeon, its author and the relevance they both call in the rpg history. For me, Jon's opinion is the highest one on this topic.

A quick web search to see who is talking about Tonisborg, and where, and here I am.

For starters, it is the 2nd known mega dungeon out of the Twin Cities. Of course on the Kickstarter we call it the 2nd ever, that's just so we can keep things simple for the average gamer. Of course we know there are others.

There is a lot to unpack in the dungeon.

-Correct me if I am wrong, but there is a tiny mention of it in FFC. I know there is a public mention of it somewhere but I am bad with details.

-It was created by Greg Svenson who is to Blackmoor what Robert Kuntz is to the Lake Geneva dungeons. If you call Greg Svenson anything but the first epic RPG persona as the great Svenni you aren't giving him due credit.

-It was created with the help of Dave Arneson.

-It is randomly generated according to a now lost system Arneson shared with Greg Svenson. Lots to discuss there - Is Blackmoor a random dungeon too since they look similar?

-It is nearly as vertical in nature as it is horizontal. Tons of stairs and pit shafts and lava tubes.

-If you have seen David Megarry's Character Matrix sheet you would know that several charatcers on that sheet are listed as having died in Tonisborg, including the Scholaress.

-The Monsters all come from a pre-publication edition of D&D in 1973.

-Within the dungeon you will find the Crowns of Power. This is Greg's own invention and they are mentioned in Monsters and treasure, if I recall correctly.

-The placement of the artifacts on the bottom level is very much a foreshadowing of what one will see later in video games on systems such as PLATO.

-Arneson had the ID monster in his small dungeon to the Temple of ID. And Greg has his Ylth'yl in his dungeon. Are these predecessors to The Invisible Stalker?

-The maps are Xerox Copies and reproduced in full color within the book. The color coding was created by David Megarry.

The book was written with a great deal of concern for new gamers as an introduction to what we call "Traditional Role Playing." Some of it may not be of any use to an old Lich DM. Most people who bought in on the 1st edition say they keep it near their AD&D books, and their copies of Playing at the World and Secrets of Blackmoor DVDs.

Artists include some old school artists. We even include art from the 70's as reproductions. Most notable being the cover by Ken Fletcher, 1979.

About a year ago a Purple copy sold on ebay for $530.00 and someone has been posting 2nd print Cardinal Edition on ebay for $500.00. We decided to sell the remainder stock of purple at 550 and we sold out. One Black cover is on the KS for $3000.00 if someone is willing to invest now for future value.

We are also selling the production maps along with a set of David Megarry hand drawn maps and some artwork.

I think the print runs are as follows:

1st print - 25 Black cover, 30 Teal cover, 170 Purple cover

2nd print thus far is - 200 Cardinal red cover w 80 pound paper, the remainder of hard bound books will be in 70 pound paper.

Covid sourcing problems have ended up making the entire book run different. Not enough purple fabric? make some in another color. No 70 pound paper available? Upgrade people for free to 80 pound paper.

Here is a page by page unboxing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsWi5wY7Tqc&t=1s

Jon Peterson never contacted me about the book. I suspect he is very busy. I did get to hang out with him at GC and chat about all kinds of things while lurking in the outdoor smoking area. If he asked, I would get him a freebie as I value his input.

Griff

Secrets of Blackmoor wrote in Lost Dungeons of Tonisborg - Considering Investment:A quick web search to see who is talking about Tonisborg, and where, and here I am.

For starters, it is the 2nd known mega dungeon out of the Twin Cities. Of course on the Kickstarter we call it the 2nd ever, that's just so we can keep things simple for the average gamer. Of course we know there are others.

There is a lot to unpack in the dungeon.

-Correct me if I am wrong, but there is a tiny mention of it in FFC. I know there is a public mention of it somewhere but I am bad with details.

-It was created by Greg Svenson who is to Blackmoor what Robert Kuntz is to the Lake Geneva dungeons. If you call Greg Svenson anything but the first epic RPG persona as the great Svenni you aren't giving him due credit.

-It was created with the help of Dave Arneson.

-It is randomly generated according to a now lost system Arneson shared with Greg Svenson. Lots to discuss there - Is Blackmoor a random dungeon too since they look similar?

-It is nearly as vertical in nature as it is horizontal. Tons of stairs and pit shafts and lava tubes.

-If you have seen David Megarry's Character Matrix sheet you would know that several charatcers on that sheet are listed as having died in Tonisborg, including the Scholaress.

-The Monsters all come from a pre-publication edition of D&D in 1973.

-Within the dungeon you will find the Crowns of Power. This is Greg's own invention and they are mentioned in Monsters and treasure, if I recall correctly.

-The placement of the artifacts on the bottom level is very much a foreshadowing of what one will see later in video games on systems such as PLATO.

-Arneson had the ID monster in his small dungeon to the Temple of ID. And Greg has his Ylth'yl in his dungeon. Are these predecessors to The Invisible Stalker?

-The maps are Xerox Copies and reproduced in full color within the book. The color coding was created by David Megarry.

The book was written with a great deal of concern for new gamers as an introduction to what we call "Traditional Role Playing." Some of it may not be of any use to an old Lich DM. Most people who bought in on the 1st edition say they keep it near their AD&D books, and their copies of Playing at the World and Secrets of Blackmoor DVDs.

Artists include some old school artists. We even include art from the 70's as reproductions. Most notable being the cover by Ken Fletcher, 1979.

About a year ago a Purple copy sold on ebay for $530.00 and someone has been posting 2nd print Cardinal Edition on ebay for $500.00. We decided to sell the remainder stock of purple at 550 and we sold out. One Black cover is on the KS for $3000.00 if someone is willing to invest now for future value.

We are also selling the production maps along with a set of David Megarry hand drawn maps and some artwork.

I think the print runs are as follows:

1st print - 25 Black cover, 30 Teal cover, 170 Purple cover

2nd print thus far is - 200 Cardinal red cover w 80 pound paper, the remainder of hard bound books will be in 70 pound paper.

Covid sourcing problems have ended up making the entire book run different. Not enough purple fabric? make some in another color. No 70 pound paper available? Upgrade people for free to 80 pound paper.

Here is a page by page unboxing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsWi5wY7Tqc&t=1s

Jon Peterson never contacted me about the book. I suspect he is very busy. I did get to hang out with him at GC and chat about all kinds of things while lurking in the outdoor smoking area. If he asked, I would get him a freebie as I value his input.

Griff

Hello, your post confirmed me that i took the right decision in not buying the book for collecting purposes. I have never trusted people selling their books with a value proposition of a future collectible. A collectible item is defined by the market and not by the publisher: you took the example of PatW for instance. Well, Jon wrote and sold that book without mentioning it will be a collectible. Now, after few years it has already that status and this is reflected in the price. The other way round doesn't  work to my eyes. You should not produce a book for a purpose it is not the hands of the publisher.
That is the only concern that i have for this item, nothing against contents (despite it would be interesting to have more details as this story is not known).
Thanks in any case for jumping in the conversation.
No offense intended, ciao