Original Scenarios Resurrected
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 1
Author


Prolific Collector

Posts: 105
Joined: Feb 06, 2022
Last Visit: Apr 26, 2024

Post Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2022 4:12 pm 
 

Since I received so much help from The Acaeum with my Complete Timeline of 70s D&D Scenarios and a great response to the manuscript to the Solo Dungeon that I posted, I hope people don't mind if I post further updates here in a separate thread.

It's a new series Original Scenarios Resurrected, where D&D scenarios from my list get republished (for free!) with the permission of the authors, usually together with extra contemporaneous material.

So far I've released two installments:

Original Scenarios Resurrected I: The Solo Dungeon (1977, Richard Bartle)
Richard Bartle (creator of the first ever MUD, MUD1) published this solitaire dungeon in 1977. Here it is presented alongside the original manuscript, and a transcript of the original introduction. Unlike the more usual Choose-Your-Own-Adventure style, where you cannot deviate far from a preset script, this is an implementation of a dungeon crawl where you wander around mapping the dungeon free to make choices that your character could.

Original Scenarios Resurrected II: The Complete Barbarian (1977-79, Brian K. Asbury)
Brian K. Asbury wrote dozens of articles in the late 70s/ early 80s, contributing to White Dwarf, Imagine, Fiend Folio, and several UK fanzines (Trollcrusher, Chimera, Underworld Oracle, Demonsblood). He wrote the first ever Barbarian Character class, published in White Dwarf #4, together with a Barbarian-only adventure "The Halls of Testing" published in Underworld Oracle 4. Here I present the dungeon together with the character class, and the updated version for AD&D from White Dwarf #13.

There's quite a bit more to come, so I thought I'd post future updates here for anyone that's interested in original OSR material.

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6997
Joined: Jan 03, 2005
Last Visit: Apr 25, 2024
Location: UK

Post Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:47 am 
 

Great site and great PDFs.
Do you e-mail the original authors and ask if you can publish their stuff? Or do you rely on 'fair use'?
I've often thought my sight would be far more useful if people could view the products, but IP laws do not permit.

That said, there has never been a successful legal claim that I can see in either the UK or the US over someone claiming their IP were infringed by someone else publishing a PDF of their book. Maybe successful C&D letters head litigation off at the pass. But practically everything is already available for free, so where is the harm in presenting it in a more useful manner?

Greg Gillespie (a modern author/publisher) is a guy who produces in the traditional (to my mind) old school mega-dungeon mold. Great pieces of work. I believe he released Dwarrowdeep on Friday, and it's already being shared freely online. He could have chosen a more cumbersome and more secure method of selling PDFs, but I guess it was too much hassle for the sake of securing sales and limiting propagation of the work. There appears to be no such thing as an author who protects his IP. Free advertising I guess.

One day I may add PDFs to http://www.afterglow2.com, but I just don't know that I could do it without the IP owners approval, and those whom I have tracked down and asked have all said no. My site looked great in 2005. Now it looks shocking ancient and embarrassing. :oops:  It's had its day. It only stays up now for posterity.


This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

 WWW  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 105
Joined: Feb 06, 2022
Last Visit: Apr 26, 2024

Post Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:47 am 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote in Original Scenarios Resurrected:Great site and great PDFs.
Do you e-mail the original authors and ask if you can publish their stuff? Or do you rely on 'fair use'?


Thanks.

All the items in the series are with the full consent of the author concerned. Some have been easier to locate than others, and the degree in which they want to be actively involved in producing the pdf varies greatly. I've removed some stuff which we didn't have copyright for, and some items have been retyped rather than scanned.

The problems I've seen in the past are when people want to re-publish a periodical (and the copyright is shared amongst many individuals), hence I concentrated on specific authors who could give permission for their work to be reprinted.

Also fortunately everyone involved has been happy for their work to be republished for free (whilst retaining their copyright) which avoids any possible issues over money.

  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 105
Joined: Feb 06, 2022
Last Visit: Apr 26, 2024

Post Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2022 10:04 am 
 

Part III is now up:

Original Scenarios Resurrected III: The Temple of Psaan (1980, Andrew Ravenscroft)
Andy Ravenscroft provided me with a lot of the information for scenarios in 1970s fanzine for my Complete Timeline of Early D&D Adventures, and here is one of his own scenarios, from The Beholder #11. This is a short scenario, based on the first chapters of L. Sprague de Camp's novel "The Fallible Fiend". Unusually for fanzine submissions we have here the original manscript which shows how a personal dungeon was fleshed out for publication. Both the original manuscript and the published version are included.

More to follow...

  

User avatar

Sage Collector
Valuation Board

Posts: 2498
Joined: Nov 16, 2002
Last Visit: Apr 26, 2024
Location: Ohio, The land without sun

Post Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2022 12:24 pm 
 

Very nice!

  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 105
Joined: Feb 06, 2022
Last Visit: Apr 26, 2024

Post Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 2:44 pm 
 

Part IV is now up.

Original Scenarios Resurrected IV: The Complete P'teth Tower (1978/79, Brian K. Asbury)
This is Brian Asbury's (author of Kandroc Keep, The Asbury System, and The Barbarian) solitaire adventure from Trollcrusher #13 and #17 combined with a previously unpublished part III, a revised part I, maps added, and all combined into a single solitaire. Brian prepared this for publication in 79/80 but Games Publications went under, so it was never published - until now, 43 years later!

More to follow...

  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 205
Joined: Oct 25, 2006
Last Visit: Apr 24, 2024

Post Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:07 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote in Original Scenarios Resurrected:Great site and great PDFs.
That said, there has never been a successful legal claim that I can see in either the UK or the US over someone claiming their IP were infringed by someone else publishing a PDF of their book. Maybe successful C&D letters head litigation off at the pass. But practically everything is already available for free, so where is the harm in presenting it in a more useful manner?
 It happens, most recently in the world of textbooks.

The problem for our hobby in the US is that there is no such thing as copyright small-claims. There is a minimum amount that has to at issue ($5,000) before you can file in federal court. However there is the DMCA which can cause the download link to be removed.

The UK has a different situation if the amount is below 10,000 pounds.
https://www.gov.uk/defend-your-intellec ... gal-action

mbassoc2003 wrote in Original Scenarios Resurrected:but I guess it was too much hassle for the sake of securing sales and limiting propagation of the work. There appears to be no such thing as an author who protects his IP. Free advertising I guess.
At the level Greg, and myself, operate at it is something to be ignored for the most part. I issued a couple of successful DMCA takedowns to Google if any pirate sites start appearing on the first two pages of search results. But that is the extent of it.

mbassoc2003 wrote in Original Scenarios Resurrected:One day I may add PDFs to http://www.afterglow2.com, but I just don't know that I could do it without the IP owners approval, and those whom I have tracked down and asked have all said no.
You would have to worry about complying with DMCA takedown requests. If somebody doesn't comply in the US means they are open to a lawsuit. Which has the problem I mentioned above with money limits. What the DMCA does in the US is give the person hosting the file or link a free pass if they comply with the notice and remove the link or file.

Then there is the social blowback from the hobby community especially if they said no.  Of the two consequences this is probably the one most likely to happen and very unpleasant to deal with.

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6997
Joined: Jan 03, 2005
Last Visit: Apr 25, 2024
Location: UK

Post Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:59 pm 
 

Thanks for the insight.

From a US perspective, when you have big established publishers like Troll Lord Games, Frog God Games, Goodman Games, Wizards of the Coast etc. and they all have every single one of their published products available online in single locations for download for free, many of these products not being formally released in PDF form via online resellers, then it can only be a decision by these big companies not to pursue of cease the free distribution of their PDFs.

They are the companies who published these PDFs and released them out of their control, knowing that their PDFs are freely distributed online.
They do not cease their actions, nor do they take action against the distributors or the hosts.

That is as close to tacit approval as they can get without posting the download links on their websites.

PDF distribution is illegal in name only, the same way it is illegal to steal or shit in the street in LA.
It has effectively been legalized by the total unwillingness of the IP owners to prosecute theft, or indeed even threaten legal action.

That's the way I see it anyways.


This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

 WWW  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 205
Joined: Oct 25, 2006
Last Visit: Apr 24, 2024

Post Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:46 am 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote in Original Scenarios Resurrected:From a US perspective, when you have big established publishers like Troll Lord Games, Frog God Games, Goodman Games, Wizards of the Coast etc. and they all have every single one of their published products available online in single locations for download for free, many of these products not being formally released in PDF form via online resellers, then it can only be a decision by these big companies not to pursue of cease the free distribution of their PDFs.
It depends on the nature of the site.
You have three broad possibility
    [list=]* It is somebody personal web space
[list=]* It is hosted on a site that serves up files (mega, google drive, dropbox, etc.[/list]
[list=]* It is basically the above but hidden via obscured link or by using rebrand.ly[/list]
[/list]

Likely outcomes.
If it is the first one and associated with one of the majors the owner will receive a DMCA notice within months via their WHOIS info.
If it is the second one and associated with one of the majors the service provider will receive a DMCA notice within months.

The last case is where things get interesting. There is a dedicated file-sharing community for all kinds of digital media. Over the year they evolved to be more convenient. Yet not too convenient. The current trend is for these sites to be a shell game with a single point of entry for those in the know. They shift things around continually so last month's link is not this month's link. But because of technology like rebrand, it is possible to find them. And by the time the DMCA notice hits, the site has already shifted.

Nobody I know gives their tacit permission for any of this sharing to exist. Rather folks tend to do what is practical and not get bent about the rest.

For the minors and folks like myself. We all pretty much operate at the sufferance of our fanbase. And have to basically win our customers person by person. The reality of today's economy is that the most precious resource is attention. But when you have it and you do well by your customer they tend to be pretty reasonable about paying a fair price for digital and physical products.

Plus now that Patreon and crowdfunding are a thing there are ways of getting enough revenue to cover costs and create a profit upfront. Unlike the traditional creator-publisher-distributor-store-customer model where piracy would devastate the links along this chain.

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6997
Joined: Jan 03, 2005
Last Visit: Apr 25, 2024
Location: UK

Post Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 9:47 am 
 

robertsconley wrote in Original Scenarios Resurrected:Nobody I know gives their tacit permission for any of this sharing to exist. Rather folks tend to do what is practical and not get bent about the rest.

When it comes to a big company, I would suggest if they create a piece of music, a film, a computer game or indeed a book, and they choose to release it online digitally without taking any steps to protect their IP, and then they choose to leave those products to freely circulate unchecked and unhampered, that is as close to tacit approval as you can get without formally approving the status quo (which for legal reasons they would not want to do.)

robertsconley wrote in Original Scenarios Resurrected:For the minors and folks like myself. We all pretty much operate at the sufferance of our fanbase. And have to basically win our customers person by person. The reality of today's economy is that the most precious resource is attention. But when you have it and you do well by your customer they tend to be pretty reasonable about paying a fair price for digital and physical products.

Plus now that Patreon and crowdfunding are a thing there are ways of getting enough revenue to cover costs and create a profit upfront. Unlike the traditional creator-publisher-distributor-store-customer model where piracy would devastate the links along this chain.

This is where the freely circulating PDFs come into their own in the community. They increase brand awareness and keep eyes on what the companies are publishing by those who otherwise would not track or care to be aware of what is being published. I do think publishers are aware of the value inaction has on increasing their market share, and one way or another that translates into shifting products in exchange for revenue.

But as I see it, I think we are going to transition over to a subscription model where gamers pay their $8 a month for free access to everything published under one of a number of banners. Maybe you end up with WotC subscriptions that covers everything 5e etc.

What I don't quite understand is how a company publishes a PDF which they have no right to release for sale. They send the PDFs to the printers, and somewhere between the printers, the publishers, and their various colleagues, the PDFs which are not permitted to be sold, are released into the online community for general distribution. I get that a mistake can happen. But to be aware that it is happening, and that it happens for every single one of your products for years and years. That is complicity, even if it is complicity by willful negligence. Without complicit staff in the publishing houses 'leaking' these products, they would not see the light of day.


This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

 WWW  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 105
Joined: Feb 06, 2022
Last Visit: Apr 26, 2024

Post Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 3:20 pm 
 

For clarification, the stuff on my blog is available for free because I didn't think it would make a lot of money anyway (it never did in the first place), and with money taken out of the equation I thought that it would be easier to persuade authors to allow the stuff to be published (as I'm not taking a cut). The alternative I considered was all money going to charity. It doesn't preclude any author deciding later on for it to be reprinted in hard copy, or moved to a pay-what-you-want pdf site if there was ever enough interest.

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6997
Joined: Jan 03, 2005
Last Visit: Apr 25, 2024
Location: UK

Post Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 3:45 pm 
 

JoeNuttall wrote in Original Scenarios Resurrected:For clarification, the stuff on my blog is available for free because I didn't think it would make a lot of money anyway (it never did in the first place), and with money taken out of the equation I thought that it would be easier to persuade authors to allow the stuff to be published (as I'm not taking a cut). The alternative I considered was all money going to charity. It doesn't preclude any author deciding later on for it to be reprinted in hard copy, or moved to a pay-what-you-want pdf site if there was ever enough interest.

No question at all about your intent or integrity.
It just happened to be a convenient thread to ask a published author directly about his experience with PDFs and his view on the issues surrounding digital media and IP protection. Didn’t mean to hijack your thread. Certainly didn’t meant to imply anything or cast aspersions. Love the work you are doing. It’s great.  :D


This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

 WWW  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 105
Joined: Feb 06, 2022
Last Visit: Apr 26, 2024

Post Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2022 5:17 pm 
 

Part V is now up - whereas Part IV was an omnibus of the three parts of P'teth Tower, this is the original three separate parts as they appeared in Trollcrusher.

In particular it includes some parts of the subzine Aryxia, and has an early use of Ability Checks.

mbassoc2003 wrote in Original Scenarios Resurrected:It just happened to be a convenient thread to ask a published author directly about his experience with PDFs and his view on the issues surrounding digital media and IP protection. Didn’t mean to hijack your thread. Certainly didn’t meant to imply anything or cast aspersions. Love the work you are doing. It’s great.  :D


No worries :-)

  


Sage Collector

Posts: 2554
Joined: Jul 25, 2007
Last Visit: Jan 06, 2024
Location: Far Harad, Texas

Post Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 2:09 am 
 

JoeNuttall wrote in Original Scenarios Resurrected:Part V is now up - whereas Part IV was an omnibus of the three parts of P'teth Tower, this is the original three separate parts as they appeared in Trollcrusher.

In particular it includes some parts of the subzine Aryxia, and has an early use of Ability Checks.


From the link:
"One interesting snippet is what Brian has to say about Ability Checks:
When you are told "Save v.s dexterity" or "vs. constituion", this means you must roll that score or less on 3 six-sided dice (ie 3D6). e.g. Brakkit has a constituition of 8; to save vs. constitution he must roll 8 or less on 3D6. (I realise that all this sounds rather obvious, but the relative newcomer to the game, at whom this is aimed, might not know these things.)
The "relative newcomer" would indeed likely not know this - as despite these being a central feature of Dave Arneson's Blackmoor campaign, AFAIK they didn't make it to an official rulebook until B/X in 1981. I don't know where this version of the rule comes from (it's not the same mechanic as Saving Throws in T&T) but clearly Brian expects everyone to know this rule. What I find interesting is the use of 3D6 - where I've been used to it being a D20. In the "Complete P'Teth Tower", which is system agnostic, the intent of this is clarified:
If you are asked to 'save vs. dexterity', this means that you must roll your character's dexterity score or less on the same dice you used to rollit originally.
Whether intentional or not, this generalisation shows that 3D6 makes far more sense than D20 - you're as likely to pass/fail as you were likely to roll that stat in the first place."

This is interesting, because it describes a sort of popular folk practice which wouldn't have official recognition until AD&D 2e. In the OD&D/AD&D rules written by Gygax, the six ability scores are never used directly in the game, but lead to the numbers which are. Before 2e, rolling against an ability score is something mentioned frequently in Judges Guild publications, a little less frequently in Dragon magazine articles, & occasionally in TSR modules. I must have overlooked or forgotten where it's prescribed in 1981's B/X rulebooks - does anyone remember where it might be?

  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 105
Joined: Feb 06, 2022
Last Visit: Apr 26, 2024

Post Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 10:52 am 
 

sauromatian wrote in Original Scenarios Resurrected:This is interesting, because it describes a sort of popular folk practice which wouldn't have official recognition until AD&D 2e. In the OD&D/AD&D rules written by Gygax, the six ability scores are never used directly in the game, but lead to the numbers which are. Before 2e, rolling against an ability score is something mentioned frequently in Judges Guild publications, a little less frequently in Dragon magazine articles, & occasionally in TSR modules. I must have overlooked or forgotten where it's prescribed in 1981's B/X rulebooks - does anyone remember where it might be?


It's on page B60 under "There's always a chance". I'm not aware that it appears in any TSR publication prior to this.

  


Sage Collector

Posts: 2554
Joined: Jul 25, 2007
Last Visit: Jan 06, 2024
Location: Far Harad, Texas

Post Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 12:11 pm 
 

JoeNuttall wrote in Original Scenarios Resurrected:It's on page B60 under "There's always a chance". I'm not aware that it appears in any TSR publication prior to this.


It is something I've paid attention to in the past, because my own homebrew system relies on ability checks for most functions of the game. Unfortunately, I didn't keep a bibliography of everywhere it appears. Ability checks are usually mentioned only briefly in pre-2e scenarios/articles (TSR or otherwise), so looking for it throughout the entire corpus of D&D literature would be time consuming.

The article in the link states that "I don't know where this version of the rule comes from." I would speculate that it's a rule which has been invented over & over by different people who are learning the game. Rolling a D20 (or 3D6) is a method frequently used in D&D; it's a numerical spread which is similar to ability scores; and the rules (especially introductory rules) often fail to provide guidance for all the situations which might need resolving within the game world. Many have likely made the logical connection independently, & created the rule on their own.

If ability checks were part of Arneson's game, & then removed by Gygax, DMs were reverse-engineering a rule that was originally intended to be there.

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6997
Joined: Jan 03, 2005
Last Visit: Apr 25, 2024
Location: UK

Post Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:10 pm 
 

It would be interesting to find out if that were the case. Sadly with both DA and EGG DMing elsewhere, maybe we won't get an answer on that one. But I would have thought there would be be signs of it in OD&D even if they were subsequently removed. Aside from that, does anyone know if DA had his own house rules written down anywhere? And whether or not a copy still exists? I seem to recall that one or two of the original Blackmoor players were still active in the community, and some original campaign players maps surfaced.


This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

 WWW  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 105
Joined: Feb 06, 2022
Last Visit: Apr 26, 2024

Post Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2022 3:42 pm 
 

After a short delay due to some building work (never again, never again!) I've now put up the next republished original 1970s D&D scenario - Original Scenarios Resurrected VI: Clearwater Caverns (1979, Andrew Ravenscroft) from Demonsblood #4. This is a short low-level cavern exploration adventure that shows a naturalistic approach to dungeon design, including possibly the earliest RPG cave map that looks anything like a real cave system. I've included the whole of Andy's original subzine "The Raven Croaks #2", with explanatory commentary and a couple of associated bonus monsters.

I know those of you interested in such things have probably already got a copy of Demonsblood #4 (and it's well worth reading) but I can promise you that coming up in a few weeks are two items that should grab your attention...

  
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 1