Compiling a list of 1970s scenarios
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Post Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2022 6:08 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote in Compiling a list of 1970s scenarios:I haven't updated that site since about 2006.
It's on my to-do list, and I gather info as I go along, but it's not a high priority now I have a kid.


That's a great site, and after checking through I found one extra thing which isn't on my list and might be relevant - Castles and Kingdoms by Bob Liddil
I can find out that Bob played T&T but this "generic", and it is described as "Kingdoms of the Triad campaign setting".
Anyone own this and can shed any light on the product?


Last edited by JoeNuttall on Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
  

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Post Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2022 9:54 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote in Compiling a list of 1970s scenarios:With Fazzlewood I wouldn't imagine it's too difficult find a decent image.
In regard to content, wasn't it reprinted digest size by someone for a 'con?

I don't think it was reprinted.

  

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Post Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 6:50 am 
 

Well i checked my inventory and found some entries for your research:
* all the Arduin Dungeon (1, 2, 3)
* "The Solo Dungeon" 1978
* "Kandroc Keep" 1979
* "You bet your life" 1979
* "The Lost Abbey of Calthonwey" 1979
* "The Mines of Keridav" 1979
* any adventure in the early issues of the following fanzines: Demonsblood, News from Bree, Troll Crusher, The Beholder

I assume that non-D&D are not in scope like:
* the early Runequest modules (Balastor Barracks, Apple Lane and also the JG Hellpits of Nightfang)
* the early T&T modules (A Computer Generated Dungeon, Buffalo Castle, Naked Doom)
* the early High Fantasy modules (Fortress Ellendar)
* any Ysgarth module


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Post Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 8:56 am 
 

dbartman wrote in Compiling a list of 1970s scenarios:I don't think it was reprinted.

Thanks - I couldn't find any references to it being reprinted.

aia wrote in Compiling a list of 1970s scenarios:Well i checked my inventory and found some entries for your research:
* all the Arduin Dungeon (1, 2, 3)
* "The Solo Dungeon" 1978
* "Kandroc Keep" 1979
* "You bet your life" 1979
* "The Lost Abbey of Calthonwey" 1979
* "The Mines of Keridav" 1979
* any adventure in the early issues of the following fanzines: Demonsblood, News from Bree, Troll Crusher, The Beholder


I've got Arduin, The Solo Dungeon, The Lost Abbey, Mines of Keridav, and those fanzines.
But I don't have Kandroc Keep, and I'd never heard of "You bet your life" - according to athornton | Entries tagged with grognard it's from MDG's Michicon VIII (1979) by Erich & Jim Moir.

aia wrote in Compiling a list of 1970s scenarios:I assume that non-D&D are not in scope like:
* the early Runequest modules (Balastor Barracks, Apple Lane and also the JG Hellpits of Nightfang)
* the early T&T modules (A Computer Generated Dungeon, Buffalo Castle, Naked Doom)
* the early High Fantasy modules (Fortress Ellendar)
* any Ysgarth module


Yes, they're out of scope for the moment - though I'd love to see some of Fortress Ellendar.

I finally managed to find interior photos for "City Modules" on Worthpoint, so thanks to several people's help 1978 is complete apart from "Castles & Kingdoms".
I'm having to do '78 in two posts as every year the number of scenarios almost doubles, so from around 30 scenarios in 1977, it's 85 in 1979!

Updated wanted list (I need a photo/scan of a map and some of the key):
Castles and Kingdoms by Bob Liddil - the 1978 book, not his C64 book of adventure games!
Tower of Elbrith by D.H. Casciano, M. Fisher and G. Mangene
Rahasia by Laura Hickman (Daystar West Media version) - I've got images of a lot of it but none of the key
Quest for the Fazzlewood - I've got images of a lot of it but none of the key
The Apprentice #6
Spectre #1 - The Temple of Manitoba
Spectre #2 - The House of Thievery
Spectre #2 - The Appleland Groves Part 1 (The Dreaming Caverns)
Kandroc Keep by Brian Asbury
You bet your life - by Eirch and Jim Moir


Last edited by JoeNuttall on Thu Feb 10, 2022 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  


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Post Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 10:53 am 
 

I've got your Castles and Kingdoms and will send images.

There was also Dimensions and Doors before it. The one I have is the first edition version which I believe was specified for T&T and then there was a second edition that changed from T&T to something like "any frpg". I will send images of mine but you may instead need to find the second edition.

Dimensions and Doors (2nd edition) | RPG Item | RPGGeek

I also have Demons and Notmen which was the third and I believe last in the series. It should be 1979 but I will double-check, and, if so, will send pictures.

Note these are all like "world settings" (descriptions of the world, some inhabitant types, etc.). I don't believe there is any kind of scenario or similar; its just like raw material to build your own campaign.

  

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Post Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 12:43 pm 
 

Is the cut off criteria that the product is Dec.1979 or before, and contains a subterranean environment in which adventurer's can play? Or are you looking for ALL pre-1980 D&D and non-specific D&D-esque publications? When you start looking into fanzines and APAs and casting the net to all publishers that published generic FRP products, the list gets very big very fast. I cover maybe 50% of the published products on Afterglow2.com if I'm lucky. There has been a lot of stuff over the past 16 years that have surfaces since. Limiting the scope to below ground dungeons certainly cuts a lot of those publications out.


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Post Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 1:04 pm 
 

VivaVelez wrote in Compiling a list of 1970s scenarios:I've got your Castles and Kingdoms and will send images.

There was also Dimensions and Doors before it. The one I have is the first edition version which I believe was specified for T&T and then there was a second edition that changed from T&T to something like "any frpg". I will send images of mine but you may instead need to find the second edition.

Dimensions and Doors (2nd edition) | RPG Item | RPGGeek

I also have Demons and Notmen which was the third and I believe last in the series. It should be 1979 but I will double-check, and, if so, will send pictures.

Note these are all like "world settings" (descriptions of the world, some inhabitant types, etc.). I don't believe there is any kind of scenario or similar; its just like raw material to build your own campaign.


Thanks. I've seen that there was more than one version of Dimensions and Doors. It will be interesting to see these, but it sounds as though they may fall out of scope of the core list I'm compiling.

  


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Post Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 2:17 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote in Compiling a list of 1970s scenarios:Is the cut off criteria that the product is Dec.1979 or before, and contains a subterranean environment in which adventurer's can play? Or are you looking for ALL pre-1980 D&D and non-specific D&D-esque publications? When you start looking into fanzines and APAs and casting the net to all publishers that published generic FRP products, the list gets very big very fast. I cover maybe 50% of the published products on Afterglow2.com if I'm lucky. There has been a lot of stuff over the past 16 years that have surfaces since. Limiting the scope to below ground dungeons certainly cuts a lot of those publications out.


It's anything that's either a dungeon or a gameable-scenario. I'm excluding things for other systems which are definately not D&D (e.g. Runequest, Bunnies & Burrows etc) and I'm also excluding anything which is just a vague setting description with a world map (there are a lot of these, and they could as easily be about a work of fiction, not something gameable).

The cutoff is end Dec 1979, which was originally chosen rather arbitrarily, but it turned out to be a good date as including 1980 would have turned this into an impossible task as every year has approx double the last. In addition, as you get later, the more and more products are by small press companies that sold hardly any copies and went bust quickly without any adverts, and so they're tricky to even know they existed let alone find someone with a copy. Also scenarios in fanzines become extremely popular, and more of the fanzines become low-print run rarities, so as the number of them increases the job becomes rapidly very hard. On the other hand, the period up to the start of 1980 most innovations have appeared, and scenarios have morphed the form we recongnise as being

The idea is to identify trends, originators of ideas, and cross-influences - which I'll blog about when it's complete. Hopefully it will also be useful as a resource for others.

  


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Post Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2022 7:07 pm 
 

JoeNuttall wrote in Compiling a list of 1970s scenarios:the period up to the start of 1980 most innovations have appeared


A good choice. AD&D becomes its own game (as opposed to an expansion of D&D) with the publication of the DMG in August '79, the Egbert disappearance brings the game into the public eye, & it becomes very popular that fall. I'm not sure when exactly the D10 or proper D20 first appears, but it is around this time.

  

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Post Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2022 12:14 am 
 

VivaVelez wrote in Compiling a list of 1970s scenarios:I've got your Castles and Kingdoms and will send images.

There was also Dimensions and Doors before it. The one I have is the first edition version which I believe was specified for T&T and then there was a second edition that changed from T&T to something like "any frpg". I will send images of mine but you may instead need to find the second edition.

Dimensions and Doors (2nd edition) | RPG Item | RPGGeek

I also have Demons and Notmen which was the third and I believe last in the series. It should be 1979 but I will double-check, and, if so, will send pictures.

Note these are all like "world settings" (descriptions of the world, some inhabitant types, etc.). I don't believe there is any kind of scenario or similar; its just like raw material to build your own campaign.


I second this opinion: be aware that if you open to any "supplement", i.e. any printed product not necessarly an adventure, your landscape gets wider and wider... I think to all the small print items like infernax and similar which are very difficult to reach!


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Post Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2022 6:43 am 
 

[quote="aia";p=346551][/quote]

Even with the scope set as it is, I doubt anyone owns *everything* in the list - though there a couple of people who might!

I've had a couple more photos come in, so here's the updated wanted list (I need a photo/scan of a map and some of the key):

Rahasia by Laura Hickman (Daystar West Media version) - I've got images of a lot of it but none of the key
Quest for the Fazzlewood - I've got images of a lot of it but none of the key
The Apprentice #6 - The Volcanic Vaults of Vahrnok?
Spectre #1 - The Temple of Manitoba
Spectre #2 - The House of Thievery
Spectre #2 - The Appleland Groves Part 1 (The Dreaming Caverns)
Kandroc Keep by Brian Asbury

  


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Post Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 4:18 pm 
 

I've managed to find decent images for Fazzlewood and Rahasia and the maps from Spectre 2. So now the list is reduced now to a couple of fanzines and a fanzine spin-off:

The Apprentice #6 - The Volcanic Vaults of Vahrnok
Spectre #1 - The Temple of Manitoba
Spectre #2 - The House of Thievery - I've got an image of the map but not the key
Spectre #2 - The Appleland Groves Part 1 (The Dreaming Caverns) - I've got an image of the map but not the key
Kandroc Keep by Brian Asbury

I'm hoping for Spectre from Grodog. Does anyone own a copy of either of the other two?

Kandroc Keep seems particularly elusive - widely advertised, and by a relatively well known author, but almost no trace of the product itself apart from a cover image.

1978 part 2 will be up at the weekend with 31(!) adventures at https://explorebeneathandbeyond.blogspot.com

  


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Post Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:47 pm 
 

dbartman wrote in Compiling a list of 1970s scenarios:I don't think it was reprinted.


Does O1 count?

  

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Post Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:58 pm 
 

chris107 on the Dragonsfoot used to have a copy of Kandroc Keep.  I don't think Chris frequents The Acaeum.  Maybe you can ping him to see if he still has it, and if so, be willing to help.

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Post Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2022 12:04 am 
 

sauromatian wrote in Compiling a list of 1970s scenarios:
Does O1 count?

Not in the original context of Fazzlewood being reprinted.  O1 wasn't technically a reprint, but a new printing with significant changes.

  


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Post Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2022 4:24 am 
 

dbartman wrote in Compiling a list of 1970s scenarios:chris107 on the Dragonsfoot used to have a copy of Kandroc Keep.  I don't think Chris frequents The Acaeum.  Maybe you can ping him to see if he still has it, and if so, be willing to help.

Dragonsfoot - Index page


Thanks. I sent chris107 a message a week ago but no luck. I will try posting on some of the other forums I read (I lurk on quite a few).

  


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Post Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2022 4:47 am 
 

aia wrote in Compiling a list of 1970s scenarios:I second this opinion: be aware that if you open to any "supplement", i.e. any printed product not necessarly an adventure, your landscape gets wider and wider... I think to all the small print items like infernax and similar which are very difficult to reach!

Fortunately most of the small print items are 1980 or later, so I've managed to locate the required images for all the many small print adventures that I've found a reference to. Fanzines and Tournament adventures are more problematic, but the hardest ones are where dungeons are hidden inside other publications - such as magazines not about D&D, or sample adventures in D&D clone rulebooks. Consequently I'm sure I'll have missed some, but hopefully not many.

dbartman wrote in Compiling a list of 1970s scenarios:Not in the original context of Fazzlewood being reprinted.  O1 wasn't technically a reprint, but a new printing with significant changes.


Since I've now got a reasonable number of images of Quest for the Fazzlewood I can compare it to the republished O1 The Gem and the Staff (I can't see anywhere on the net where this has been done so it may be of interest):

O1 is split into two separate adventures - Tormaq's Tower, and The Staff of Fazzlewood. Only the second comes from Fazzlewood.

Maps wise it is almost identical (almost traced), just room H is missing.

The illustrations for the player are redrawn almost identically as Players Maps A:12, B:13, C:14, D1:-, D2:15, E:16, F:17, G:-, J:19 (no map H or I). D1 is missing as it is not needed as it just the bottom half of the corridor D2, likewise G is missing but is a short uninteresting corridor. There is one new image - 18 is actually a new image for room I which was oddly missing from the original.

The scoring is completely different. In particular in Fazzlewood you can get negative points, but not in O1 - obviously by the early 80s players had turned into snowflakes!

Fazzlewood has a desiggners introduction (not in O1) and also at the end of half-an-hour Felspell materialises and ends the adventure.

In the intro you change from "Athelfrogg the Agile, a freelance Master Pilferer with a modest reputation for bold and clever thievery" into the far blander "You are known as Eric the Bold, a clever and resourceful fellow who has made his way in the world for many years as an up-and-coming professional thief.". Fazzlewood has a great introduction where you're stuck in a dungeon "musing upon your unkind fate", but this is expunged in O1 (though oddly a version of it reappears as an alternative intro for those who have run scenario A). Fazzlewood here is far better.

I only have the key for room J/room 9, and it is very different.

In O1 the room has full standard 1980s boxed text, whereas in Fazzlewood it says simply:

Read: "You enter a room as pictured in Map J."


In O1 "The carpet appears to have magic runes of some kind hidden in the weave, but is in fact a plain carpet" whereas in Fazzlewood:

2. FLYING CARPET: rests on the wall without fastening. Pictured on the ..???..
with 4 runic symbols. It functions only by commanding the ...???...
inside by name


In O1 it is the broom which becomes magical (a flying broom). The changes don't appear to materially affect the adventure, but some are still quite significant. In O1 "The cabinet contains a variety of items used in magic research" whereas in Fazzlewood:

3. CABINET: this wooden cabinet is locked. If picked or broken open, ...???...
shelves inside. On the top shelf are 6 vials of blood, from left to ...???...
Medusa*, human, Troll, Werewolf*, and basilisk*. (* indicates poision ...???...
if material is consumed, e.g. medusa blood turns to stone, dragon blood ...???...
On second shelf are 10 jars of materials: arsenic*, Belladonna*, ...???...
Opium*, Mistletoe, mushroom*, nightshade*, opium, wolfsbane, black lotus*.
On the third shelf are 6 jars of powdered materials: bat wing, unicorn ...???...
newt eyes, lion's heart, hippogriff feathers, and dragon scale.
On the bottom shelf are 3 empty ??? a ??? and a caldron.


So I know which version of the adventure I'd prefer to play (and I think all of you), and it's the one (almost) nobody has a copy of.

For my purposes that's sufficient info to trace the history of the development of scenarios. I wish that the original versions of these tournament adventures were all published, like Tomb of Horrors was - this should not affect the price of super-rare collectibles.

  


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Post Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2022 3:00 am 
 

dbartman wrote in Compiling a list of 1970s scenarios:chris107 on the Dragonsfoot used to have a copy of Kandroc Keep.  I don't think Chris frequents The Acaeum.  Maybe you can ping him to see if he still has it, and if so, be willing to help.
JoeNuttall wrote in Compiling a list of 1970s scenarios:
Thanks. I sent chris107 a message a week ago but no luck.


I sent chris a second message via a different mechanism and he was very willing to help :-)

Unfortunately he can't find it :-(

Richard Bartle also had a copy... but he gave his to a museum!

(Richard, of MUD1 fame, wrote the first D&D solo, The Solo Dungeon, whose style Brian Asbury copied for Kandroc Keep - so it would be good to compare P'teth Tower (pre-influence, which I have) and Kandroc Keep (post influence). Brian thought that solo adventures were going to become really popular - and they did just a couple of years later with Warlock of Firetop Mountain).

  
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