THE CODEX OF DREADSPIRE
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Post Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 1:31 pm 
 

Hello everyone, i'm publishing this request on behalf of a friend of mine who asked me to do it. If any Acaeum members could help in some way...

THE CODEX OF DREADSPIRE

I am the author (one of, I credited it to my ex-wife as well) of this old chestnut. We wrote it in the mid 1990s as a supplement to zero and 1st edition D&D. We sold maybe 50 copies in Columbus Georgia (I was in the army, stationed at Ft. Benning at the time). It was a primitive garage publication of the standards of the time, it contained new character classes, spells and magic items.

Anyway, I was recently told that a few copies may still be in existence, if so, I'd love to get one for pure nostalgia. If anybody has a copy they'd be willing to part with, I'd be happy to buy it.

In fact, if anybody has made a pdf of it, that would be great. I could care less about copyright, this is purely a nostalgic quest on my part. I would be happy, if I can get a copy or a pdf, to put up a facebook group and give it away for free.

If anyone does have a copy, paper or electronic, please message me.

Thanks

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Post Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:45 pm 
 

Even the most basic of Google search will reveal that I have a copy of this.. there are only a couple of references on the internet.. one that was sold at NK back in 2007 to ? and the others are all the same, there is my photo and 2 people copied the same photo into their photobucket, there is my collection listing it and a guy saying he has one in the collection he unpacked.. this is the one I bought..

While I have been know to give copies of stuff to original writers his comment of "I could care less about copyright, this is purely a nostalgic quest on my part. I would be happy, if I can get a copy or a pdf, to put up a facebook group and give it away for free." dosen't inspire me all that much.. if I really wanted to do that I prob could, he should get the permission of his ex-wife as well..  I was told it was written by 2 guys as well.. so there is some inconsistency there as well.. on top of that I don't think the writers were mentioned in the book by name.. I see that some guy has said he "may" have a copy on facebook so he may have luck on his side and not have to worry about me at all;)

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Post Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:24 pm 
 

beasterbrook wrote in THE CODEX OF DREADSPIRE:Even the most basic of Google search will reveal that I have a copy of this..


:lol:  :joker:

  


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Post Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:08 am 
 

beasterbrook wrote in THE CODEX OF DREADSPIRE:Even the most basic of Google search will reveal that I have a copy of this.. there are only a couple of references on the internet.. one that was sold at NK back in 2007 to ? and the others are all the same, there is my photo and 2 people copied the same photo into their photobucket, there is my collection listing it and a guy saying he has one in the collection he unpacked.. this is the one I bought..

While I have been know to give copies of stuff to original writers his comment of "I could care less about copyright, this is purely a nostalgic quest on my part. I would be happy, if I can get a copy or a pdf, to put up a facebook group and give it away for free." dosen't inspire me all that much.. if I really wanted to do that I prob could, he should get the permission of his ex-wife as well..  I was told it was written by 2 guys as well.. so there is some inconsistency there as well.. on top of that I don't think the writers were mentioned in the book by name.. I see that some guy has said he "may" have a copy on facebook so he may have luck on his side and not have to worry about me at all;)

Brette:)


Well, I have to confess I don't understand this.  You seem to be angry with me over the fact that I discovered an old work of mine was still in existence, and would like a copy of it.  You don't seem to like the idea that I want to put it up on the web so that others can enjoy it.  As to my ex, we lost touch many years ago, and she never expressed any interest in this rulebook.

If you look the game up on RPGGeek, you will fine that both she and I are credited as the authors.  I can direct you to a government website that will prove who I am.  If that is not enough, I could probably tell you what little I remember of its contents.  I wrote the thing 28 years (or so) ago, after all.  

In the last analysis, what you have is yours and not mine, but if you could see your way clear to send me a pdf, it would be appreciated by me.  I have no desire to take the physical copy from you, and you are very welcome to it.

Regards,

John Vogel

  

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Post Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:14 pm 
 

gloriousbattle wrote in THE CODEX OF DREADSPIRE:
Well, I have to confess I don't understand this.  You seem to be angry with me over the fact that I discovered an old work of mine was still in existence, and would like a copy of it.  You don't seem to like the idea that I want to put it up on the web so that others can enjoy it.  As to my ex, we lost touch many years ago, and she never expressed any interest in this rulebook.

If you look the game up on RPGGeek, you will fine that both she and I are credited as the authors.  I can direct you to a government website that will prove who I am.  If that is not enough, I could probably tell you what little I remember of its contents.  I wrote the thing 28 years (or so) ago, after all.  

In the last analysis, what you have is yours and not mine, but if you could see your way clear to send me a pdf, it would be appreciated by me.  I have no desire to take the physical copy from you, and you are very welcome to it.

Regards,

John Vogel



No I'm not angry at all, I'm just placed in a situation I don't particularly like (my opinion) .. I spend a LOT of time trying to track down people like you (I mean a LOT) and, as I've said I've given copies of works to their authors that no longer have a copy of their work, and what they do with it after that is their own choice, the fact that there may be a copy of something like this floating around on the net doesn't lessen that I have, the whole reason I track down stuff like this is so they don't disappear (oh and its fun tracking it down;)  ....let me explain what the issue is.. and its an issue with a lot of old stuff.. (and I know you may find this explanation a bit "hard"to understand from your point of view.. but... )

I bought my copy off a guy who said he knew a couple of the people that did Dreadspire "If I remember correctly, there were six or seven people who contributed. The two that I knew in college were X and Y." ... your only connection to this I can find is that you posted on facebook the other day saying you did  it.. your "page" on rpggeek
.. here.. John Vogel | RPG Designer | RPGGeek .. doesn't list you as the writer, nor is there any mention on rpggeek or boardgamegeek for anything under Codex or Dreadspire.. nor could I find the ex-wifes name under Vogal on geek..

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This item doesn't seem to exist on the geek (which is not uncommon) and even if it did it doesn't "mean" a lot, it might add weight.. but..  from memory the book was printed by "Dragon's Den Games".. which is prob just a made up name, pretty sure no company existed.. I don't think there was any mention of names in the book (I'll have to check), nor is there any mention who "Dragon's Den Games" was on the net..

Now lets assume that you are one of the writers (and you prob are, not many people would say they are a writer of an almost unknown rpg book), by your own admission you have given her some credit, and unfortunately your observation that "she never expressed any interest in the book" doesn't mean that she doesn't have any less of a claim on it than you, and nor can you give up her rights for her..

So.. what it comes down to is you are asking me to do give you a copy I can't prove is yours so you can upload it to the net while not worrying about, at best, your ex-wifes rights.. at worst, hers and/or another 5-6 people rights.. In all honesty if I wasn't worried these sort of things I'd upload my entire collection to the Net (and some people do).. and really there wouldn't be much that would happen, we are talking about a 28 year old book that only sold 50 copies..  as I learned here a while back, when you don't have a copy of something the only opinion that matters is that of the person that owns it...

..as I said a position I don't like to be placed in..




Having said that I do encourage you to explain the history of the book etc so that we may all benefit..

Brette:)


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Post Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 1:12 am 
 

gloriousbattle wrote in THE CODEX OF DREADSPIRE:In the last analysis, what you have is yours and not mine, but if you could see your way clear to send me a pdf, it would be appreciated by me.  I have no desire to take the physical copy from you, and you are very welcome to it.

Regards,

John Vogel


I do think Brett is being fair on this. One thing I would suggest if it's ever copied that it be done so in a way that it becomes an obvious "2nd print" and not just an exact duplication/straight 1 for 1 copy. The other writers and the artist(s?) orig involved should have a say. I think that's incredibly reasonable. Can you assist in tracking down the others?

I can direct you to a government website that will prove who I am.

btw, were you talking about the US Copyright Office?

  

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Post Posted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 9:53 am 
 

OK, I know that Nobleknight isn't a reference source we typically (ever?) rely upon, but for what it is worth, the NK site notes that the authors of Codex of Dreadspire were John and Fern Vogel.

Codex of Dreadspire, The


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Post Posted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 10:56 pm 
 

beasterbrook wrote in THE CODEX OF DREADSPIRE:
gloriousbattle wrote in THE CODEX OF DREADSPIRE:
Having said that I do encourage you to explain the history of the book etc so that we may all benefit..

Brette:)


[Shrugs] I don't mind talking about it, but, as I said, I don't remember much.

I wrote it when I was still in the Army, stationed at Ft. Benning.  My wife was credited because she was my wife.  More on that one later.  A guy named Steve Adlesee (might be getting the spelling wrong) did the illustrations, which, if I remember rightly, were mostly for the new character classes.  A guy who's last name was Minor (don't remember his first name) typed it, as I had written the thing by hand, back in those days when not everybody had a pc.

Of the contents, I remember very little.  New magic user and cleric spells, by level, in more or less OD&D format.  New magic items, of which the only one I remember was the "Torch of Ghostfire."  This was a minor magic item that burned with a magical blue flame.  It provided light only, no heat, nor did it burn anything.

Of the character classes, all I remember is the "Starfarer."  This guy had crash-landed on the high fantasy world (wherever your campaign is set) and had some technological gadgets, he was based on the fighter class.  In fact, all of the classes were written up such that they were based on some D&D class, and were simply modifications of it.  That's pretty much what I remember.

There is other stuff, of course, such as what the dreadspire is, and what that spectre with the crown is standing behind it, but all of that stuff was specific to the game. None of it is in the book. The guy on the front cover with the hammer is my character (Steve's interpretation of it, anyway).  If memory serves, there is an orc-like figure on the back cover, which Steve insisted on drawing with a 1970s hairstyle, for whatever reason.

Anyway, you've said your peace about all this, and that's fine, but here's my thing.  As you point out, this is a virtually valueless rulebook which (though doubting all of my other claims) you accept sold only about 50 copies.  As I said, I'd like it for the nostalgia of it, and no more.  I heard from an old friend in Columbus, Georgia that the book was probably still in existence, as evidenced by Noble Knight's entry.  I was happy to hear this, and thought I'd look around.  

I have written many rulebooks since then, and put them all up online for free.  There is no money to be made from the Codex, by me or anyone else, most likely.  As I said, if I get a copy, from you or whoever, I'll put it up on the web for free, just as a very minor piece of gamer nostalgia.  No one could be less interested in it, and no one is going to sue you, me, or anybody else over it.

Well, I came to the Acaeum looking for this, which has proven to be everything it is rumored to be.  It really is a sad state of affairs when old grognards with nothing better to do sit on rulebooks of no value to anyone, and bark and snap at the guy who made the thing in the first place, on the sorry excuse of copyright.  Dude, nobody cares, including me.  If your holy mission is insulted or violated in some way by my getting a pdf of the thing, then by all means, don't give me one.  If I never come up with one, I won't lose any sleep.  This was all about fun, a concept to which you seem to be a stranger.  Ciao.

Oh, yeah.  Been married a few times, in case that also is important to you.  This is because guys who are not completely locked in gamerdom occasionally meet girls.  :wink:

  

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Post Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:35 am 
 

gloriousbattle wrote in THE CODEX OF DREADSPIRE:Well, I came to the Acaeum looking for this, which has proven to be everything it is rumored to be.  It really is a sad state of affairs when old grognards with nothing better to do sit on rulebooks of no value to anyone, and bark and snap at the guy who made the thing in the first place, on the sorry excuse of copyright.  Dude, nobody cares, including me.  If your holy mission is insulted or violated in some way by my getting a pdf of the thing, then by all means, don't give me one.  If I never come up with one, I won't lose any sleep.  This was all about fun, a concept to which you seem to be a stranger.  Ciao.


John, no one was snapping at you. Brett, especially. Obviously before posting to the forum, you had a misconception of the site. Is that why you asked someone else to post in your place?

gloriousbattle wrote in THE CODEX OF DREADSPIRE:Oh, yeah.  Been married a few times, in case that also is important to you.  This is because guys who are not completely locked in gamerdom occasionally meet girls.  :wink:


Really? That's where you're going with this? This is wishful thinking on your part. There are many members on here who are married and have families. And I am sure many more of the others with girlfriends or boyfriends.

  

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Post Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:52 am 
 

What's a grognard;-)?  

Sorry, I don't want to poke the bear - I just had a "Who's scruffy-look'n?", Han Solo moment.

  


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Post Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:12 am 
 

misterspock wrote in THE CODEX OF DREADSPIRE:
gloriousbattle wrote in THE CODEX OF DREADSPIRE:Well, I came to the Acaeum looking for this, which has proven to be everything it is rumored to be.  It really is a sad state of affairs when old grognards with nothing better to do sit on rulebooks of no value to anyone, and bark and snap at the guy who made the thing in the first place, on the sorry excuse of copyright.  Dude, nobody cares, including me.  If your holy mission is insulted or violated in some way by my getting a pdf of the thing, then by all means, don't give me one.  If I never come up with one, I won't lose any sleep.  This was all about fun, a concept to which you seem to be a stranger.  Ciao.


John, no one was snapping at you. Brett, especially. Obviously before posting to the forum, you had a misconception of the site. Is that why you asked someone else to post in your place?

gloriousbattle wrote in THE CODEX OF DREADSPIRE:Oh, yeah.  Been married a few times, in case that also is important to you.  This is because guys who are not completely locked in gamerdom occasionally meet girls.  :wink:


Really? That's where you're going with this? This is wishful thinking on your part. There are many members on here who are married and have families. And I am sure many more of the others with girlfriends or boyfriends.


This from the guy who starts in with the jester hat icon?  God, this place is a walking anti-gamer stereotype.   8O    :D

  


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Post Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:14 am 
 

ibm_ted wrote in THE CODEX OF DREADSPIRE:What's a grognard;-)?  

Sorry, I don't want to poke the bear - I just had a "Who's scruffy-look'n?", Han Solo moment.


Napoleon's Old Guard were referred to as 'grognards' (grumblers).  In modern wargaming and roleplaying parlance, it has come to refer to a grumpy old gamer.

  

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Post Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 11:44 am 
 

gloriousbattle wrote in THE CODEX OF DREADSPIRE:This from the guy who starts in with the jester hat icon?  God, this place is a walking anti-gamer stereotype.   8O    :D


the jester icon was a response at being funny to Brett, hence his quote above that! Not to you. If I were needling you, I would've quoted and responded as such.

Really, you are jumping the gun on all of us here.

  

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Post Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 8:30 pm 
 

Oh dear.. in the RPG world there has been numerous threads on copyright and how unfair it is.. with stuff like this once its printed the copyright reverts to the original contributors, the art to the artists etc, that why its theoretically so hard to republish these things legally.. of course people don't care and they scan and put up stuff all the time, there is a huge amount of it out there and (to be honest) I have thought about it myself quite a bit.. copyright sux when it comes to these examples.. but, unfortunately you don't "own" legally the copyright for all of the content of the book that's the crux of the matter to me.. yes I know how unfair that sounds etc, I know you will tend to view the matter from your own perspective etc I know I look like an "old Grognard" etc..  I know the answer will be "we did it as a fun thing" "we didn't think about copyright in those days" "I didn't think I'd need a contract allowing me to republish" "We didn't even do contracts for contributors" etc etc trust me its all been spoken about before (I'm pretty sure there will be a copyright notice in the book though) and while you may have written stuff and released it for free (very commendable) if someone were to use any of it without your consent I'm pretty sure you would rely on copyright law to protect your interests...

...this is how crazy copyright is.. the picture of the Codex, you know the one that is posted above, well you see, since I took the photo of it I have the copyright on that photo, and by posting it my copyright on it has been violated (no Vault Keeper.. you don't need to remove it that's fine;) and I could ask for it to be removed (including all those posts on facebook) that's how suck full copyright is... no you don't need to remove it.. I was just pointing it out..


gloriousbattle wrote in THE CODEX OF DREADSPIRE:
Well, I came to the Acaeum looking for this, which has proven to be everything it is rumored to be.  It really is a sad state of affairs when old grognards with nothing better to do sit on rulebooks of no value to anyone, and bark and snap at the guy who made the thing in the first place, on the sorry excuse of copyright.  Dude, nobody cares, including me.  If your holy mission is insulted or violated in some way by my getting a pdf of the thing, then by all means, don't give me one.  If I never come up with one, I won't lose any sleep.  This was all about fun, a concept to which you seem to be a stranger.  Ciao.

Oh, yeah.  Been married a few times, in case that also is important to you.  This is because guys who are not completely locked in gamerdom occasionally meet girls.  :wink:


There are a lot of people here that have given away stuff here for free or a fraction of its market value to "help" people in the hobby. There are a lot of us that don't post scans of our collection because of what we think about others copyright.. that's why you don't see scans of a lot of old stuff doing the rounds on the internet (well that and its a bloody lot of work to do)..

There are a lot of people here that don't post their collections so its really a minor miracle that you you have found someone in about 6 hours after posting about it who has a 28 year old book that maybe sold 50 copies... there are books that I have been looking for for 20+ years and I've never seen a copy come up for sale or even someone that admits that they own a book...   posting comments like this on facebook "Jack Vogel Well, here's me making lemonade out of lemons. A friend managed to find a guy who at least claims to have a copy. He's some silly old grognard who immediately got insulting, and is growling over this valueless old rulebook like a dog with an old bone. So, I thought I'd share the fun. The level of nerdrage here is almost off the charts." probably isn't going to help your cause that much you know.. you really should be taking the long approach on this, I've waited years to get copies of books, you can't expect things like this to be instantly granted in your favour "as that's what you think should happen".. saying how unfair life is because someone won't give you a copy of something you contributed (? maybe you did the whole thing) to usually doesn't reflect well..  (BTW there is a market for these types of "valueless old rulebook", I get outbid all the time on valueless old rpg stuff...) If I really wanted to be a "silly old grognard" I would have posted a semi-sarcastic comment..

gloriousbattle wrote in THE CODEX OF DREADSPIRE:  I have no desire to take the physical copy from you, and you are very welcome to it.


Thanking you for allowing me to keep something I already own;)

Yes I'be been Married, Divorced, Married again with 2 kids.. its not that important to me in the context of this..

Brette:)


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Post Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 12:13 am 
 

Thank you Brette for keeping your reply civil and on-topic. Your reply reminds us that we always have a choice as to how to respond to ad hominem slings and arrows. Well done.


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Post Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 7:14 am 
 

Lol.  Old grog who nobody pays any attention to blasts off multiple long posts to stir up trouble.  Sad.

You kiddies have fun.  I'm outa here  :wink:

  

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Post Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 8:31 am 
 

gloriousbattle wrote in THE CODEX OF DREADSPIRE:Lol.  Old grog who nobody pays any attention to blasts off multiple long posts to stir up trouble.  Sad.

You kiddies have fun.  I'm outa here  :wink:


Ran him off with his tail between his legs.

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Post Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:57 am 
 

This whole thread is just perplexing.  It completely imploded over such a little thing.  And the name-calling.  Oi.

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Post Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 11:00 am 
 

Seems to me that gloriousbattle was the writer, but I do think Brette's got it right.  There are other people to think about.  If your are the author of something, do you not keep a copy or 2 for yourself?  I have about 10 copies of King Slayers left.  Just to be clear:  Brette you may not upload any portion of King Slayers to the internet.  Thanks.


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Post Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 1:31 am 
 

Prufrock wrote in THE CODEX OF DREADSPIRE:
gloriousbattle wrote in THE CODEX OF DREADSPIRE:Lol.  Old grog who nobody pays any attention to blasts off multiple long posts to stir up trouble.  Sad.

You kiddies have fun.  I'm outa here  :wink:


Ran him off with his tail between his legs.

Martin



Oh he's still here, just in Troll mode.

I've followed this post as I'm sure many of us have.  I guess collecting RPG stuff is what's caused my 1st and 2nd divorce. Who'd of thunk it?

Luckily there's always the safety of my parents basement where my mummy brings me cookies and milk while I fondle my collection :lol:

Maybe Trump will build a wall to keep all these 'gamers' out, and make them pay for it with proceeds from the sales of the Codex of Dreadspire


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