Found this thread through the earlier version of this thread. Thought I'd share for the group that ebay seller heracleides ** eBay auction listing blocked.  Please enable cookies in your browser for this site and for eBay! **

was confirmed as stolen content by the owner (issue 6 only existed in a post-original version sold through kickstarter a few years ago). In the items I returned at least one came with a CD/RW copy of the zine.

Does reporting anything to eBay ever do anything?
I doubt it unless you are the copyright holder and can serve them with a C&D letter from your lawyer.
I realised a long time ago that its just a waste of your time.

Now, buying stuff from someone, then reporting the theft of IP to the police and obtaining a crime reference number, and claiming from PayPal that you had reported the crime and were going to recover your funds through your credit card if they do not return your money to you, may deprive the seller of his goods, and he'll write a loss on the postage too. And if you could get a lot of people to sting the guy that way, maybe you could shut him down legally. But you really have to be dedicated to do that, so why not just let it lie. There's a market for bootlegs, always has been all the way back to crappy concert recordings stamped onto vinyl and xeroxed tourneys circulating in highschool the week after convention weekends, both of which are legitimately collected and bought and sold at some pretty high prices.

It wouldn't be intended to do anything other than register that a report had been made. That way you have a solid case (certainly in the UK) for not returning the illegal product to the seller. The argument with PayPal, and if not PayPal will not relent, then your CC company is a simple one. They have to return your money because you were sold illegal counterfeit product and they cannot demand the return the goods because by doing so you would be committing a crime. They cannot demand that you commit a criminal act in order to get your money back.  

The point is to remove the seller's property and cause him to spend money manufacturing, listing, paying fees, and shipping, that are all a complete loss to him. There comes a point where the losses outweigh the profits and he gives up or puts his prices up and fails either way. If 25% of his sales resulted in direct loss and possibly even a $15 chargeback fee, he'll pull the plug quickly.

The risk is in ensuring you recover your money from the transaction and can explain why the goods had to be retained and not returned to the seller. And the willingness to go the course with PayPal if you needed to.

For me, I see that no-one ever stopped bootleg albums or photocopied dungeons back in the day, and now they are sold as collectables at good prices, so why complain. It is an aspect of collecting. I have bought many a tourney that may or may not have been photocopied by the DM at a con, or by a schoolkid in a library. I have no way of knowing, and I doubt they are distinguishable from any other photocopy except for whomever owns the original manuscript. So if I ever sell any of them I'll sell them as 'vintage tournament dungeon'.

Hey, is there any (interesting) story behind this weird item?


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For those who missed it here at the launch:


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eBay listing

Not cheaper for UK buyers (US Shipping) which looks to have been the only real advantage of that sale.
I think I still have two of these that I got when they were first released. I haven't ever really had the inclination to build one or paint it, and with the modern minis that are being 3D printed, if I had the time and the inclination, I'd likely paint something that appeals to me more.
Unless something freakish happens I doubt I'd ever get ROI on my two, so maybe in 5 years or so my little one could have a shot a painting them.
Otherworld have some nice minis, but shipping is prohibitive.
And again, these are things I could see going digital in the future. We're already 3D printing minis. How much longer before you can buy your mini and have it printed locally? And how much longer after that before you can illicitly download 3D files of minis and 3D print them? How long before you can 3D scan a Ral Partha mini and print a copy in plastic?

If my 5yo wants to paint metal minis, I have a few hundred unpainted. I think kids in the future will find the feel of metal minis to be somewhat freakish and unusual because everything is plastic. I've met kids who have grown up with GW and never experienced metal minis before. At the second hand stall at my local Con, its fun to watch their reactions to the stuff we've all played with. Sadly the two big Cons I usually go to were cancelled this year.

Sardan wrote in Interesting Non-TSR Items Currently on eBay:
I’m a bit confused. Otherworld is in the UK. Shipping isn’t that prohibitive here.

Ouch. I've tended to avoid them because when I bought from them originally the shipping cost was high and I assumed they were in the US. Maybe it was a US reseller then and I was paying a premium to have the product shipped to the US and then sent back to the UK and the company in the US thought I was a chump? But I was sure I was dealing directly. Still, water under the bridge and all that.