Original manuscript of EPT for sale?
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Post Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 12:07 am 
 

This was just posted on a facebook rpg sales group by a Keith Dalluhn:

"I have the original typewritten manuscript with handwritten notes for Prof. M.A.R. Barker's Empire of the Petal Throne published by TSR in 1975.
It was given to me along with a bunch of other items including what is now known as the Dalluhn Manuscript. (See link)
I hate to part with it but need the money.
It is now in a 3 ring binder in acid free plastic sleeves. Non Smoking house.
I am willing to send pictures to serious buyers. If you wish to travel here to see it, that can be arranged.
$50,0000."

I have no idea if this is for real or some kind of joke or con.


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Post Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 12:29 am 
 

I'm pretty sure Keith Dalluhn was the person with the early D&D manuscript that Jon Peterson refers to as the Dalluhn Manuscript.  If i recall, Keith obtained that through MAR Barker's estate, so I'm guessing this is legitimate.

That being said, EPT is rather esoteric and not on the top of many collectors' lists, so the price may be optimistic.


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Post Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 12:30 am 
 

JasonZavoda wrote in Original manuscript of EPT for sale?:This was just posted on a facebook rpg sales group by a Keith Dalluhn:

"I have the original typewritten manuscript with handwritten notes for Prof. M.A.R. Barker's Empire of the Petal Throne published by TSR in 1975.
It was given to me along with a bunch of other items including what is now known as the Dalluhn Manuscript. (See link)
I hate to part with it but need the money.
It is now in a 3 ring binder in acid free plastic sleeves. Non Smoking house.
I am willing to send pictures to serious buyers. If you wish to travel here to see it, that can be arranged.
$50,0000."

I have no idea if this is for real or some kind of joke or con.


That's so freaky!  I just read about the "Dalluhn Manuscript" in Gygax magazine #2.  The article is by Jon Peterson the author of "Playing at the World", he states in his article, "It had been circulating for more than a decade since a fellow named Keith Dalluhn had rescued it from the garage of M.A.R. Barker..."  Peterson goes on to say, "It certainly was not Gygax or Arneson's first draft; from the state of the system, it reflects something around the midpoint of their collaboration."

Peterson says the Dalluhn Manuscript was to go on display at the Strong Museum in Rochester, NY (this article was from Autumn of 2013).



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Post Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 12:51 am 
 

muaddib5 wrote in Original manuscript of EPT for sale?:
JasonZavoda wrote in Original manuscript of EPT for sale?:This was just posted on a facebook rpg sales group by a Keith Dalluhn:

"I have the original typewritten manuscript with handwritten notes for Prof. M.A.R. Barker's Empire of the Petal Throne published by TSR in 1975.
It was given to me along with a bunch of other items including what is now known as the Dalluhn Manuscript. (See link)
I hate to part with it but need the money.
It is now in a 3 ring binder in acid free plastic sleeves. Non Smoking house.
I am willing to send pictures to serious buyers. If you wish to travel here to see it, that can be arranged.
$50,0000."

I have no idea if this is for real or some kind of joke or con.


That's so freaky!  I just read about the "Dalluhn Manuscript" in Gygax magazine #2.  The article is by Jon Peterson the author of "Playing at the World", he states in his article, "It had been circulating for more than a decade since a fellow named Keith Dalluhn had rescued it from the garage of M.A.R. Barker..."  Peterson goes on to say, "It certainly was not Gygax or Arneson's first draft; from the state of the system, it reflects something around the midpoint of their collaboration."

Peterson says the Dalluhn Manuscript was to go on display at the Strong Museum in Rochester, NY (this article was from Autumn of 2013).


Yeah, not sure what is happening with that one. This one is certainly significant if real.


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Post Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 3:33 am 
 

I'm surprised that Keith is interested in selling the original EPT manuscript. I've seen it, it's authentic. I wouldn't doubt he's serious.

And yes, you can go visit the "Dalluhn Manuscript" at the Strong in Rochester. I certainly didn't want the damn thing sitting in my house.

I do have a follow up to that Gygax #2 article in the latest issue (#5), where I talk a bit more about the interaction between the Dalluhn Manuscript and the more-recently-recovered "Mornard Fragments," another partial draft of D&D.


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Post Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 3:45 am 
 

increment wrote in Original manuscript of EPT for sale?:I'm surprised that Keith is interested in selling the original EPT manuscript. I've seen it, it's authentic. I wouldn't doubt he's serious.

And yes, you can go visit the "Dalluhn Manuscript" at the Strong in Rochester. I certainly didn't want the damn thing sitting in my house.

I do have a follow up to that Gygax #2 article in the latest issue (#5), where I talk a bit more about the interaction between the Dalluhn Manuscript and the more-recently-recovered "Mornard Fragments," another partial draft of D&D.


I sent him a message to post about it here at the acaeum. I can't imagine any other place where he would find better potential buyers.


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Post Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 3:56 am 
 

increment wrote in Original manuscript of EPT for sale?:I'm surprised that Keith is interested in selling the original EPT manuscript. I've seen it, it's authentic. I wouldn't doubt he's serious.

And yes, you can go visit the "Dalluhn Manuscript" at the Strong in Rochester. I certainly didn't want the damn thing sitting in my house.

I do have a follow up to that Gygax #2 article in the latest issue (#5), where I talk a bit more about the interaction between the Dalluhn Manuscript and the more-recently-recovered "Mornard Fragments," another partial draft of D&D.


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Post Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:34 am 
 

increment wrote in Original manuscript of EPT for sale?:I'm surprised that Keith is interested in selling the original EPT manuscript. I've seen it, it's authentic.

*g* You can save us trying to find out which group that "for sale" message was posted on, then, and let us know whether that's the 1974 or 1975 version, please. ;)
I followed his profile as far as the Vintage Role Playing Games group. No dice there, facebook's other suggested groups were 80% malamutes and I doubt I'd've found anything there in all that fluff.

Aside from the question of which version, there's the small matter of EPT being famous for; a) world/setting b) language/script c) dice-rolling.
Well, OK, substitute "early 'RPG'" for c)?

Unlike purchasing a manuscript for D&D, say, any potential buyer does need to be fully aware that elements a) and b) already existed in manuscript form 25 years before EPT finally saw publication in game form - although gaming had already taken place in that world well before 1974, people had dressed up as (their) characters at SF conferences, etc.
I presume Jeff Berry had excellent material relating to this on show at the recent Gary Con? :)


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Post Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 12:35 pm 
 

muaddib5 wrote in Original manuscript of EPT for sale?:had rescued it from the garage of M.A.R. Barker...


Just as a clarification, he has stated on the for sale page that the current manuscript:

This is the original. Handwritten notes are in green ballpoint pen. Authentication is that I took it out of Prof. Barker's garbage when he wanted to throw it away.


Just wanted to make sure you did not miss the b in garage.

Good to know its authentic but I think anything of this magnitude should be coming with the letters of authenticity from a few people.

The facebook group is here:  https://www.facebook.com/groups/rolepla ... stradesell

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Post Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 12:38 pm 
 

Also, what every happened to the other fellow who posted here that he had a bunch of old Tekumel stuff - I never heard back from him.

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Post Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 2:00 pm 
 

faro wrote in Original manuscript of EPT for sale?:
increment wrote in Original manuscript of EPT for sale?:I'm surprised that Keith is interested in selling the original EPT manuscript. I've seen it, it's authentic.

*g* You can save us trying to find out which group that "for sale" message was posted on, then, and let us know whether that's the 1974 or 1975 version, please. ;)


I'm just going by his description, but it matches the 1974 draft he showed me, not the 1975. Lots of hand-annotations and test typing, some of it basically scratch paper from the development process, but lots of solid chunks of continuous typed text. I doubt there's anything else like it.

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Post Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 2:59 pm 
 

The original post is now gone from Facebook.  Apparently questioning the price and authenticity of a $50,000 ask has upset the seller.

I`ll also note that now the seller is saying:

The fact that I gamed with Barker for 4 years and pulled it out of his garage and rescued it from being destroyed seems to not be enough provenance.

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Post Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:38 pm 
 

Mars wrote in Original manuscript of EPT for sale?:The original post is now gone from Facebook.  Apparently questioning the price and authenticity of a $50,000 ask has upset the seller.

I`ll also note that now the seller is saying:

The fact that I gamed with Barker for 4 years and pulled it out of his garage and rescued it from being destroyed seems to not be enough provenance.



What a Troll.....
At 50K anyone with even a moderate bit of intellect should expect some questions from potential buyers.


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Post Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:06 pm 
 

increment wrote in Original manuscript of EPT for sale?:I'm just going by his description, but it matches the 1974 draft he showed me, not the 1975. Lots of hand-annotations and test typing, some of it basically scratch paper from the development process, but lots of solid chunks of continuous typed text. I doubt there's anything else like it.

Thanks, Jon; that's what I'd've expected as I doubt Gary changed any of the world/setting text, which differs between the 1974 and 1975 versions.

Consensus opinion still doesn't yet count the 1974 version as a "published RPG" (I'd personally disagree*) but that was a seriously long development process for the "product" as a whole, with still a few twists and turns - not only in the gaming mechanics - before the final version published by TSR.

*albeit the date originally provided by the individual present at the first play session fitted the known/explainable chronology better.


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Last edited by faro on Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  

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Post Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:36 pm 
 

Mars wrote in Original manuscript of EPT for sale?:Also, what every happened to the other fellow who posted here that he had a bunch of old Tekumel stuff - I never heard back from him.

That was Jeff B., whom I was referring to, and who was gaming with Prof. Barker for rather longer than 4 years.

I forwarded him reference copies of what was left of the original proto-Tekumel material that Barker had sent Lin Carter first time around - the world/setting/language/script which ended up in EPT ~25 years later, plus a couple of extras.

Was rather looking forward to seeing news of the digitization project of the main archive in the recent Gary Con updates, but I'll be patient if that was deferred... Heh; I'm still waiting for a photo of Phil to use in his Wiki' article bulk update 4 1/2 years ago but I know Jeff's had other matters to contend with.


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Post Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:25 am 
 

David, you should synch up with Victor Raymond: the stuff you're wanting to see will probably be coming from the Tekumel Foundation.


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Post Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:30 am 
 

Mars wrote in Original manuscript of EPT for sale?:Apparently questioning the price and authenticity of a $50,000 ask has upset the seller.

Yah, there was a kerfluffle when I commented gently that it was Optimistic.

  

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Post Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:34 am 
 

ExTSR wrote in Original manuscript of EPT for sale?:
Mars wrote in Original manuscript of EPT for sale?:Apparently questioning the price and authenticity of a $50,000 ask has upset the seller.

Yah, there was a kerfluffle when I commented gently that it was Optimistic.


He also seemed to imply I was calling him a liar because I asked for some kind of authentication of handwriting etc.  All and all, he does not seem like the kind of person I would want to trying to make any kind of blockbuster deal with (regardless of the item).

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Post Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:16 pm 
 

I wonder how the guy arrived at the $50k number. Did somebody tell him that's the going rate? Seems odd that he didn't set it up (anywhere) auction style, but have some kind of a reserve if he truly thinks that 50 is the min.

I hope he's just understands that buyers naturally want some kind of proof before dropping wads of cash. Maybe he could get or pay for one of Barker's family members to confirm that the handwriting is legit, for example?

  

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Post Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:17 pm 
 

Mars wrote in Original manuscript of EPT for sale?:He also seemed to imply I was calling him a liar because I asked for some kind of authentication of handwriting etc.

Remember for Barker you have to specify which language you want first, for any sample. ;)
(Not including the other 47+ RL languages (IIRC) that he was fluent in).

Image

Anyhow...


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7.4 TAKING THE GAME SERIOUSLY: Don't"

  
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