Failed Kickstarters
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Post Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:09 pm 
 

Is the idea of backing a Kickstarter project to make money, or to see a good product produced? If the idea is to make money, it seems to me to be a fool's gamble to try anything in the RPG arena. No one is going to come out with a new game or book and sell millions of copies. That kind of sales level requires a huge advertising base. You're better off picking some solid companies on the NASDAQ or S&P 500 and investing in those.
If it is to see a good product produced, that makes sense.


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Post Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:17 pm 
 

Kickstarter isn't an investment vehicle; i.e., you're not getting shares of the company or anything like that.  You're essentially just pre-ordering an item that has yet to be produced; the funds obtained from this pre-order are what enable the individual or company to produce the item.

It's "crowdfunding" as opposed to "investor funding".  Biggest difference is that with investor funding, the investors have legal recourse to come after your ass if you fail to produce the item.  But, of course, it's a lot harder to secure investor funding if you don't already own an established company.

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Post Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:20 pm 
 

I wasn't quite sure what my success rate was, so I took a look.  These are combined for all crowdsourced projects I've supported (Kickstarter, Indiegogo, etc.).  Not all of these are RPG related, but most are games of some sort:

Total projects = 44
Full rewards received = 24
Partial rewards received = 9 (these are in the category of pdf now, print to follow, or main book now, stretch goals coming - ALL seem perfectly likely to complete)
Due = 9 (most overdue are the two Chaosium projects, but again I have high confidence in ALL of these completing)
Refunded = 1 (Dwimmermount)
Probably dead = 1 (Nystul)

So that's 1-2 failures, depending how you want to count Dwimmermount, over a smattering of projects in the last three years.  Obviously, I'd love to be at 100%, but I can live with those numbers.


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Post Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:44 pm 
 

The game 'Up Front' is one of my favorite games to play. I am pleased with my decision to stay away from the failed kickstarter to re-print it. $339,000 up in smoke!
UP FRONT the card game by Rik Falch — Kickstarter


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Post Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:36 am 
 

Scalydemon wrote in Failed Kickstarters:The game 'Up Front' is one of my favorite games to play. I am pleased with my decision to stay away from the failed kickstarter to re-print it. $339,000 up in smoke!
UP FRONT the card game by Rik Falch — Kickstarter


At least the lawyers seem to be making money.


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 5:49 pm 
 

Read this today about the Tome of Horrors kickstarter.

Tenkar's Tavern: Centerstage Miniatures "Tome of Horrors" Kickstarter Hits High Horror, Complete with 3rd Party Takeover Attempt and PR Threats


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Post Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:17 pm 
 

That one looks bad considering most backers are in for $200+.

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Post Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:21 am 
 



I wonder happened to the money!! Awesome opportunity screwed away again :(


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Post Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 2:25 am 
 

yeah, that sucks to say the least. I was still waiting for half my order on the Demons & Devils one

  

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Post Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 2:37 am 
 

misterspock wrote in Failed Kickstarters:yeah, that sucks to say the least. I was still waiting for half my order on the Demons & Devils one


Sorry to hear that. I'd read that most of Demons & Devils had been fulfilled, except for the King of Evil Dragons. I didn't have the funds to back that one and I had been regretting it.

There are threads on Reaper and FGG about this as well.


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Post Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 3:08 am 
 

Thanks. yeah, for certain they weren't all fulfilled. I orig received a box with about 1/3 of what I pledged for. But there was supposed to be others cast in metal which I'm not sure ever were made. I remember those of us who ordered for that category/add-ons were given a choice for metal or resin.

I've been reading up on all the threads after you posted about it. I had to just stop going through all the comments after a while because all it was doing was getting me more and more angry.  PDT_Armataz_01_32  :alien:  :mrgreen:  these are the only green emoticons I could find to express how close I was to changing into the hulk out of anger, but it might just come across as me about to throwup through my alien buckteeth

  

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Post Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:40 am 
 

misterspock wrote in Failed Kickstarters:Thanks. yeah, for certain they weren't all fulfilled. I orig received a box with about 1/3 of what I pledged for. But there was supposed to be others cast in metal which I'm not sure ever were made. I remember those of us who ordered for that category/add-ons were given a choice for metal or resin.

I've been reading up on all the threads after you posted about it. I had to just stop going through all the comments after a while because all it was doing was getting me more and more angry.  PDT_Armataz_01_32  :alien:  :mrgreen:  these are the only green emoticons I could find to express how close I was to changing into the hulk out of anger, but it might just come across as me about to throwup through my alien buckteeth


It is a sad and disgusting situation. It reminds me of things that would happen to my students at the community college. One bad choice or overwhelming circumstance would lead to another and they would reach a point where they could never catch up and then they would just stop coming. Math is very unforgiving. It seems to me that something like that happened here only magnified and reaching out to hundreds (thousands?) of other people.


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Post Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 8:33 am 
 

Another failed KS - Ultimate Unofficial Collectors Guide to D&D:Forgotten Realms by Jim Hunton.

Fund date: August 2013
Ship date: November 2013

Some of the members here may have pledged for this one.  I felt it was safe because Jim Hunton had three other volumes complete and for sale on Amazon. I pledged way before I found this site and other online sources for collectors.

The project is now over a year late.  The only thing we have received are a few vague one line updates about some mystery modueles he needs to make the book complete.  It's the Forgotten Realms, there isn't that much stuff out there.

I've asked for a refund and have been refused.  I pledged at the $65 level which included the previous three volumes in addition to the new book.  I asked that Jim ship the three volumes and I give up any claim on the new book.  He refused.  

I'd stay away from all Kickstarters or business dealings with this Jim Hunton.

  

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Post Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:55 am 
 

Brian2112 wrote in Failed Kickstarters:Another failed KS - Ultimate Unofficial Collectors Guide to D&D:Forgotten Realms by Jim Hunton.

Fund date: August 2013
Ship date: November 2013

Some of the members here may have pledged for this one.  I felt it was safe because Jim Hunton had three other volumes complete and for sale on Amazon. I pledged way before I found this site and other online sources for collectors.

The project is now over a year late.  The only thing we have received are a few vague one line updates about some mystery modueles he needs to make the book complete.  It's the Forgotten Realms, there isn't that much stuff out there.

I've asked for a refund and have been refused.  I pledged at the $65 level which included the previous three volumes in addition to the new book.  I asked that Jim ship the three volumes and I give up any claim on the new book.  He refused.  

I'd stay away from all Kickstarters or business dealings with this Jim Hunton.


This joker also tried to fund a D&D museum, it was a miserable failure and never got funded.  This guy is another in a long line of unprepared non-starters that should just get a job.


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Post Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:40 am 
 

Brian2112 wrote in Failed Kickstarters: Some of the members here may have pledged for this one.  I felt it was safe because Jim Hunton had three other volumes complete and for sale on Amazon. I pledged way before I found this site and other online sources for collectors.


here's that thread about the museum where he and his wife Debbie were trying to get everyone to pitch in a lot of $$$

Museum of Dungeons & Dragons

  

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Post Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2014 1:50 pm 
 

Most of us have figured out that this is a hobby, not a job.  Even most of us indie publishers rely on our primary gigs to support our families.  Heck, this industry sucks for generating revenue... I've seen 3 LGS close in the last 6 months, and KS efforts fail more often than not because people want to make a living doing it.  It's just not feasible.

These two seem like they should enjoy the hobby as we do and just muscle through the M-F grind to pay the bills.

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Post Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:29 am 
 

A pity to hear about all the troubles with TOH. I backed Matt's earlier Torn World miniatures project and it was managed perfectly. Got everything on time and they were great products. It's sad to see projects derailed by these kind of disputes.

  

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Post Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2014 12:08 pm 
 

I am going to preface this by saying as many of you know Matt was a frequent vendor at NTRPG con...and a sponsor of the con the last two years.  

I think Matt is a good person, but perhaps a bad businessman. It's not unknown for this to happen.

Matt did not lose the money on hookers and blow, if I have to be flippant. Nor on vacations to Cabo, new cars, limo rides, etc. He's not Mike Nystul who tried to fund a gaming convention (not part of his original three kickstarters) with the money and spent it all before a word was even written.  Matt actually paid for sculptors, molds, minis, painters, shipping, promotional expenses, etc. I know this probably doesn't matter to some people who lost money, but he's guilty of being a bad businessman and being too ambitious, not of being a crook.

Matt underestimated costs, it happens.  Remember that Amazon takes 10% up front. FGG had their TOH figures licensed for 15%.  That means Matt was out 25% of the $97,000 KS  pledge right off the bet (down to $72k before anything even got started).  If he made his initial estimates looking at almost $100k, he was in trouble from the start.  

I feel sick to my stomach because I have friends on both sides, on every side...Matt from Centerstage, Matt and Bill and Skeeter from Frog God, and the many customers who gave Matt money (including my own brother, who was in for several hundred dollars).  I advertised Matt's Kickstarters on my NTRPG con facebook page. The con sponsored him the first year he attended. Doug did a lot to get CSM off the ground in the first place. He (and the con) have lost money on this deal also, believe me, a successful CSM would have been a boon to all of us.

Silence never helps anyone dealing with financial difficulties, and I'm glad Matt finally came forward about his difficulties, as the speculation was getting ugly.

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Last edited by Badmike on Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 1:14 am 
 

My list of failed kickstarters is growing.. I'll list them soon

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Post Posted: Sat Nov 15, 2014 11:29 pm 
 

I feel sorry for the backers. :(

From the comments on the CSM D&D page it looks like there were still a number waiting for miniatures. Did CSM simply use funds raised on ToH to help finance D&D?  

Incidentally I got an aggressive  PM from CSM 18 months ago on this site that is actually relevant.

Center_Stage wrote:Subject: Fractured Dimensions Outer Planes Kickstarter

Sardan wrote:It would have been better had they delivered on the first kickstarter before starting the second!  :x


If this snarky little comment was directed at ME, it's not my Kickstarter.

Thanks.



It was a bizarre bout if defensiveness given that I was clearly talking about a totally different company but maybe it shows there were troubles in store.


Last edited by Sardan on Tue Nov 18, 2014 5:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
  
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