Eye of the Dragon Photos
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Post Posted: Sat May 31, 2014 11:44 pm 
 

Hi Everyone,
I am sure many of you have seen the post in the Classifieds regarding Eye of the Dragon.  We are really excited to be able to help bring forward the production of Eye of the Dragon.  I thought some of you may be interested in a photo of some of the material I saw while at Tracy's house.  Also, here is the post by Bracton regarding a little of the history and how you can obtain a copy also.  
Cheers!

"As many members of the Acaeum know, before Tracy Hickman went to work for TSR, he and his wife Laura wrote two adventure modules, Pharaoh and Rahasia, under their Daystar West imprint.  Both, of course, were ultimately turned into modules mass-produced by TSR.  But few of the Daystar West originals were distributed, and today they are very rare.

Originally, there was going to be a third Daystar West module, to be called Eye of the Dragon.  When Tracy went to work for TSR, however, he stopped working on it (and started working on what became the Dragonlance series).  But before joining TSR, Tracy had printed off a batch of covers for EotD, similar to those used for Pharaoh and Rahasia.  A while ago, Blackmoor posted about his acquisition of one of those covers.  He obtained his copy from Melnibonean (Scott), who lives in Utah and had recently acquired all of the remaining EotD covers from the Hickmans.

In talking to the Hickmans, Scott learned that Tracy still has the original notes and maps he had prepared for EotD.  Scott contacted three members of the Acaeum he had met at Gary Con (Stratochamp, Blackmoor and me) to see if together we could work out an arrangement with the Hickmans to finally get EotD into print.

We were recently able to reach an agreement with the Hickmans, and EotD will finally be produced as a limited edition collectors' module, based on Tracy's original notes and maps.  Under the arrangement, 38 copies of the module will be printed in total, each having one of the original covers.  Twenty six numbered and signed copies (numbers 5 through 30) will be made available for purchase by collectors.  No further limited edition copies of EotD will ever be printed, and we do not expect that EotD will ever be produced or sold again in any other format.  Although timing will depend on the Hickmans (who are currently at work on the adventure), Tracy has targeted delivery of the final modules at Gen Con in August.

The price for each limited edition, signed and numbered copy of EotD is $1,250 plus shipping and insurance.  Anyone interested in acquiring a copy should PM Stratochamp or me.  Reserving your copy will require payment in advance, first come, first served.  Once payment is made for all of the available copies, the list will close. If some of the available copies remain unsold by the end of June, we will likely invite those who have already purchased a copy the chance to buy a second.

Although copies of EotD will be reserved on a first come-first served basis, the copy number anyone receives will not depend on the order of PM or payment.  Copy numbers will be randomly determined after all copies have been purchased.  If Tracy and Laura do deliver them to us by Gen Con, we'll roll the numbers up there, and all interested parties would be welcome to watch.

Thanks for your interest. We think it is pretty cool to be able to help bring this long-rumored adventure in to print.

P.S.  For those on Tracy's email list, he just sent around an announcement about EotD."

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Post Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:39 pm 
 

With apologies for the duplication, I just posted an update in the classifieds.  Tracy is running a private game of Eye of the Dragon at Gen Con for purchasers of the new module.  We'll have to wait until August to report, but I'm sure one of us will post information here about the adventure after the game.

Re: Hickman's Eye of the Dragon


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Post Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 11:41 pm 
 

Why the ridiculous price?

  

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Post Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:05 am 
 

PM sent.  And anyone with any questions should feel free to PM me directly.


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:30 am 
 

Why aren't you happy to answer questions in public about the ridiculous price?

  

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Post Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:25 am 
 

I suppose, for one, I don't think the price is ridiculous.  If I did, I wouldn't be involved.  While Scott is a relatively new member of the Acaeum, the other three of us have been on this forum for quite a while.  I would hope that we have some credibility that we are not being unreasonable in the price sought.  We are certainly being upfront with those who have decided to purchase a copy (and over half of the available copies have now been sold).  But a discussion in an open forum about the economics of the module seemed, at least to me, unnecessary.

Given the fact that this has been raised by two members in the open forum, I will say this.  The economics are largely driven by the expense necessary to divert the Hickmans from their other projects, to put in the time and effort to complete this adventure to a level of professionalism they expect of themselves.  None of the four of us are making a profit on this adventure.  We have elected to involve ourselves because we would like to see EotD finally in print.  We would hope that others share our enthusiasm, even if they choose not to (or, let's be honest, cannot afford to) acquire a copy.

Again, I'm more than happy to answer questions anyone has, but would much prefer to leave this thread for a discussion about EotD itself.


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Post Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 3:39 pm 
 

I suppose I think the original day star west modules are expensive because they were small print runs, old and became TSR modules.

These look like a cash grab and I think it is a shame that the module won't be widely available to people who are interested in D&D. It seem antithetical to the hobby (of playing D&D).

  

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Post Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:32 pm 
 

Sardan wrote in Eye of the Dragon Photos:I suppose I think the original day star west modules are expensive because they were small print runs, old and became TSR modules.

These look like a cash grab and I think it is a shame that the module won't be widely available to people who are interested in D&D. It seem antithetical to the hobby (of playing D&D).


Initially when we started this project I too thought that the perception may be that It is a "cash grab", but it really is not such.  We wanted it to be collectable and such just like it came out, we were limited to the amount of original covers that were left in this world, hence the odd numbering.  Also the Hickman's must make significant effort in order to get the project finished, that means stalling any current project to work on EotD, hey they need to support themselves as well.  Also the significance of the material comes to mind, it is the building blocks of Dragonlance.  Lastly the authors should get some significant reward for doing this, if 26 copies hit the market at $150.00 or so the price would skyrocket in a very short time leaving the "resellers" the lion's share of the value and not the creators.


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Post Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:31 pm 
 

Melnibonean wrote in Eye of the Dragon Photos: ... and we do not expect that EotD will ever be produced or sold again in any other format.  


Price aside, as someone interested in the history of D&D, I do find it depressing that it won't ever be available in any other format. A low-cost text-only pdf would be useful & wouldn't hurt the collector's values, as we've seen with the orange-covered B3.


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Post Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:28 am 
 

Blackmoor wrote in Eye of the Dragon Photos: Also the significance of the material comes to mind, it is the building blocks of Dragonlance.


Which is why it is terribly sad this material won't be available.

Blackmoor wrote in Eye of the Dragon Photos:if 26 copies hit the market at $150.00 or so the price would skyrocket in a very short time leaving the "resellers" the lion's share of the value and not the creators.


So produce 26 limited editions and more standard editions.

  

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Post Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:32 am 
 

I have been watching this discussion with interest as I would love to own a copy of Eye of the Dragon myself.  I have always been a big fan of the Hickman's works, and this adventure sounds very interesting.  The price however, was too much for me.  I understand the Hickman's need to get paid for their work.   I understand the resellers issue.  I understand that whoever is coordinating this project is only doing this as a labor of love because projects like these never go as easily and smoothly or cheaply as first imagined (the LE art projects come to mind), and adding to a project is rarely a good idea.  Mission creep is one of the sneakier assassins of any project.

That being said, the prospect of a limited edition and a standard edition does present a possibility worth exploring.  The Hickmans still get paid, the Limited Editions maintain most of their value, and those who are interested more in the content than the cost have an alternative.  The biggest potential down-side is the possibility that the presence of a standard edition means potential participants in the LE issue could drop out, and second, there is additional work for the committee creating this project.  Mailing these things to everybody alone is a huge hassle.  

Therefore, in order for this proposal to work, it seems logical to me that the original project continue as planned, cost and everything, and once it is completed, then the committee or project coordinators can look into publishing a standard issue if they want.  If they don't want the hassle, then hopefully they would be willing to seek the blessing of the Hickmans and turn over the documents to another team/publisher who would be willing to publish a standard issue.  Of course, the Hickmans would receive royalties off of those issues as well, so I can imagine they'd be for it.  And if the Hickmans do receive additional compensation through these standard editions, this could mean reducing the costs of the Limited Editions for the high-end buyers, so they'd benefit too.  For example, a deal could be structured where LE buyers could receive a royalty off of these standard issues too, to off-set any perceived or real loss in value to their LE copies.  And if you think that's too good a deal for them, then you just go ahead an pony up the purchase price of an LE issue.  For all you standard issue advocates, the LE buyers need to be just as convinced as you are of the benefits of this possibility.

There is at least one more matter requiring consideration and that is, if the first coordinating committee does not want to go through the hassle of publishing these adventures, then the second group is not going to be willing to publish an unlimited number of adventures.  So, even these standard issues would be limited, just not numbered.  And for the Hickmans to be paid these additional royalties/commissions, these standard issues would probably all need to sell within a year at most.  In this way, it's a straight-forward, done and over-with contract.  This means that there will still be buyers left out in the cold, just not as many.   :?   And not only that, a mechanism (like a poll thread) would have to be created where interest could be gauged as to how many standard issues could be sold at a certain price point, say $150.00.  There might be 100 people interested, but if I were guessing, it'd be more like 40.  Or if you went with a $50.00 price point, you might get 75 buyers.  Again, projects like these can get real complicated, real quick.  I wish the committee luck with their project, and I am pleased they have come as far as they have.   8)


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Post Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:16 am 
 

I simply assumed that Trace reserved the right to reprint it himself.

Not privy to details tho; just an assumption.

  

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Post Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:30 am 
 

ExTSR wrote in Eye of the Dragon Photos:I simply assumed that Trace reserved the right to reprint it himself.

Not privy to details tho; just an assumption.


He might have.  I don't know.  But even if this initial committee doesn't talk to the Hickman's about it, I am guessing it's going to come up with them sooner or later.  

If I am the Hickmans, the main things I am concerned about are working with legit people and getting paid for my work.  This group provides this.  And even if I never own a copy, for D&D's sake, I am glad this is getting done.  I realize not everyone is going to be happy about whatever is decided, but I have high confidence in the people involved, and I believe they'll carefully consider whatever is presented in these forums.  I would not want to be in their shoes.  I'd like their wallets, but not their shoes.   :wink:


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Post Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:48 pm 
 

Produce pdfs with watermarks, and no covers, and slightly altered text (2nd prints). Without the original covers, these are just going to be curios.  There are pdfs of ST1 and orange B3 out there and I'm not seeing any problems with fakes of those being sold.  

I like this project and I'm glad the material is seeing print, and I even think the price points are in line for what is being included, but anyone who has read my posts over the years knows I'm about dissemination of knowledge over everything else.  And there has been exactly zero evidence over the years that any reprint of a RPG rare has ever affected the price of an item.  

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Post Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:12 pm 
 

ExTSR wrote in Eye of the Dragon Photos:I simply assumed that Trace reserved the right to reprint it himself.

Not privy to details tho; just an assumption.


Not privy to the details but the line in the original post "we do not expect that EotD will ever be produced or sold again in any other format" would suggest that this has been discussed although "we do not expect" doesn't sound like the door is completely closed.

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Post Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:30 pm 
 

benjoshua wrote in Eye of the Dragon Photos:how many standard issues could be sold at a certain price point, say $150.00.  There might be 100 people interested, but if I were guessing, it'd be more like 40.  Or if you went with a $50.00 price point, you might get 75 buyers.  Again, projects like these can get real complicated, real quick.


I think this is a bit of a delicate situation when you consider the past experience of Bottle City.  Bottle City sold around 50 copies at the $150 price point.  When the product finally came out and it turned out that the booklet for the LE edition was the same as the standard edition, I remember there was a fair bit of disappointment about how close the the standard product was to the LE edition (i.e. what were you really getting for the extra $100+).

Now consider a similar situation with EotD where an LE edition is $1250 and a standard edition is $150.  I am guessing that if the Hickmans wanted to release a more mass produced standard edition at the price of $150, I think they would probably want to release something better than sheets of typed up text - they would probably want a more polished module so those paying $150 are getting a product worth the money.  But the same question would then be asked as with Bottle City - for the extra $1100 what are you really getting.  The only answer I can think of here is that you are getting an original cover for that price, then debate, is the cover alone worth this amount?

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Post Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:37 pm 
 

Mars wrote in Eye of the Dragon Photos:I think this is a bit of a delicate situation when you consider the past experience of Bottle City.  Bottle City sold around 50 copies at the $150 price point.  When the product finally came out and it turned out that the booklet for the LE edition was the same as the standard edition, I remember there was a fair bit of disappointment about how close the the standard product was to the LE edition (i.e. what were you really getting for the extra $100+).

Now consider a similar situation with EotD where an LE edition is $1250 and a standard edition is $150.  I am guessing that if the Hickmans wanted to release a more mass produced standard edition at the price of $150, I think they would probably want to release something better than sheets of typed up text - they would probably want a more polished module so those paying $150 are getting a product worth the money.  But the same question would then be asked as with Bottle City - for the extra $1100 what are you really getting.  The only answer I can think of here is that you are getting an original cover for that price, then debate, is the cover alone worth this amount?


Agreed.  I like Badmike's suggestion of a pdf.  That solves that problem.  It also takes care of shipping concerns.   8)


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Post Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:48 pm 
 

benjoshua wrote in Eye of the Dragon Photos:Agreed.  I like Badmike's suggestion of a pdf.  That solves that problem.  It also takes care of shipping concerns.   8)


I wonder how many people would pay $150 for a PDF - enough to make it worthwhile?

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