RJK / PPP  Print run(s) question...
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Post Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:42 pm 
 

So there were a few RJK items recently on sale, and I know that there are a few different sets of releases for said items using this link as a guideline:

Canonfire! - A Partial, Annotated Bibliography of the Works of Robert J. Kuntz

Specifically for these three items [Tower of Blood, Cairn of the Skeleton King, and The Original Bottle City], I'd like to know just what kind of print runs are out there (author's copies, runic, magic, super-secret, etc.  :lol: ).

Maybe if Alan could chime in here that would be great.


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Post Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:38 pm 
 

For Cairn and Tower, there were a couple different levels of sponsorship when they initially came out.  You paid to sponsor the company then got the modules.

If I recall correctly, Green Dragon sponsorship level was the top level.  So if you sponsored at Green Dragon level you could get 2 copies of the module.  People purchasing first got the runic ones (lettered A-Z) then the numbered copies (1, 2 and so on).  The author also kept some copies for himself for promotional purposes, give aways, to sell, etc.
All the modules are the same just a difference on whether written inside is a letter, number or says author copy.

For Bottle City there are 2 releases - one was suppose to be a collector's version with 1 piece large poster map that was shipped out rolled not folded (initial cost of $150) and a more general release with smaller 2 piece map that is folded.  The booklets are the same for both versions.  The collector's version also came with copies of the original bottle city notes.  The number 54 comes to mind as the how many of these were sold but I could be wrong - I'm sure its in the forums somewhere.

Rob is a smoker and as such many modules were sent out smelling of smoke so that is also a common state to obtain these in.

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Post Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:29 pm 
 

As above, Cairn of the Skeleton King and Tower of Blood both had an official 'Runic' issue of 26 copies each, accompanied by a certificate lettered A-Z, and as I recall, an official first release of 350 numbered copies, again accompanied by a numbered certificate. Cairn of the Skeleton King was subsequently released again as a Second Printing, unnumbered/certificated on unknown quantity. Tower of Blood to my knowledge has not been reprinted, but I may be wrong.

Both first print runs obviously may well have had additional undisclosed 'authors copies' and an educated guess (although I may be blissfully ignorant here) would be that an initial run of 400 copies was ordered, 350 numbered, 26 runic, and the balance, minus any snafus/packing/printing errors gives you your balance of 'undocumented' copies.

Also, as above, all first printing copies of the first two products are identical, the only physical difference being the accompanying certificate. This has been reflected in the balancing out of perceived 'value' over time, with Runics being sold an no real great premium over numbered copies. At least with Tower of Blood the certificate was professionally laid out and printed, whereas with Cairn of the Skeleton King the certificate was a home printer job.

.

Now, with Bottle City you have two official releases (although a reprint is also on the way I believe). There is a 'Collectors Edition' retailing at $150 with a single piece poster map and 12 (I believe) sheets of original notes (54 copies maybe?), and the more humble regular release, two piece map, no notes. It should again be noted that the all copies of the physical book are identical, and that they are all marked as Collectors Editions $150, and the only physical difference is the map, notes, and what is written in the white box on the back cover of the module.

Again a standard print run of 350 copies IIRC,(although I may be corrected here), but this time you also have 10 numbered 'Authors Copies', an undocumented quantity of unnumbered 'Authors Copies', at least one copy I have seen with no designation on the back cover at all, the box being blank, and at least 5 copies that I know of marked as 'Comp Copy'.

Add to this, at least two 'official copies' of the original manuscript and map, one of which was used to create the original scanned map image, two original masters of the scanning company's CD, a copy of the master CD I sent to RJK, and the manuscript itself (currently residing in Australia?) and that about gives you a complete picture of what's out there for those.

Probably more than you wanted to know, but hope it helped.


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Post Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:38 pm 
 

Just a minor point, I thought the runic copies were 1-26 marked A to Z and the numbered copies therefore started at #27?


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Post Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:03 pm 
 

Thunderdave wrote in RJK / PPP  Print run(s) question...:Just a minor point, I thought the runic copies were 1-26 marked A to Z and the numbered copies therefore started at #27?

Not with ToB. I just sold Numbered Copy #2. :D
I think they all started at #1.


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Post Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:15 pm 
 

I stand corrected :). I claim the do-over that applies with every thousandth post!


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Post Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:14 pm 
 

I just spoke with Rob about print run sizes, will have to pull up my notes and get back to you tomorrow.


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Post Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:16 pm 
 

500 copies of Cairn. Specific breakdown here:
Rob J. Kuntz's CAIRN OF THE SKELETON KING update info • Page 22 • Collecting General •  The Acaeum

60 copies of Cairn 2nd print:
Lord of the Green Dragons: Cairn of the Skeleton King 2nd Printing Available!


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Post Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:18 pm 
 

350 copies of Tower of Blood (1st print):
Lord of the Green Dragons: Tower of Blood 2nd Printing


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Post Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:18 pm 
 

300 copies of The Living Room:
LR--# of copies issued to date in The Original Living Room Forum


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Post Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:26 pm 
 

Bottle City info is less concrete...

second-hand assertion of a 500 copy print run:
Re: RJK-1 The Original Bottle City

51 (or 53) of those were Limited Editions:
update on PPP's The Original Bottle City(TM)
RJK's Bottle City and The Living Room adventures • Page 5 • Collecting General •  The Acaeum
Interesting Items Formerly on eBay • Page 99 • Collecting General •  The Acaeum

(If I'm reading the last link correctly, there might have been as many as 553 copies of Bottle City.)


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Post Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:50 am 
 

My printing history notes align with Guy's:

- Cairn:  500 initial, 60 reprint
- Tower:  350 initial, 120 reprint
- Bottle City:  551-ish original

A few quick corrections, too:

Mars wrote in RJK / PPP  Print run(s) question...:For Cairn and Tower, there were a couple different levels of sponsorship when they initially came out.  You paid to sponsor the company then got the modules.

If I recall correctly, Green Dragon sponsorship level was the top level.  So if you sponsored at Green Dragon level you could get 2 copies of the module.  People purchasing first got the runic ones (lettered A-Z) then the numbered copies (1, 2 and so on).  The author also kept some copies for himself for promotional purposes, give aways, to sell, etc.  All the modules are the same just a difference on whether written inside is a letter, number or says author copy.


Agreed, but in the original purchasing plan for Cairn (and perhaps Tower, too), the higher the level of your sponsorship, the more copies of the adventure you received as well.  We moved away from that by Bottle City (but I don't remember on Tower offhand), since in general folks don't really need 10+ copies of a module ;)

Mars wrote in RJK / PPP  Print run(s) question...:For Bottle City there are 2 releases - one was suppose to be a collector's version with 1 piece large poster map that was shipped out rolled not folded (initial cost of $150) and a more general release with smaller 2 piece map that is folded.  The booklets are the same for both versions.  The collector's version also came with copies of the original bottle city notes.  The number 54 comes to mind as the how many of these were sold but I could be wrong - I'm sure its in the forums somewhere.


I thought the limited editions were numbered at 51, although Rob did have the poster maps over-printed, and later sold those separately (unsigned) as well.  In addition, the ink coloration on Bottle City editions was important, too:  the collector limited edition books and maps were signed in Green ink, while the standard limited edition books were signed in Black ink.  The facsimile manuscript pages printed with the collector limited edition of BC were printed in B&W, and the maps were shipped folded as far as I know (mine are certainly folded, and were not not rolled; ISTR there being complaints from folks that given the high cost that a rolled options wasn't offered, so I don't think any were shipped rolled, but Rob may have changed part of the way through the shipping process too).  

mbassoc2003 wrote in RJK / PPP  Print run(s) question...:As above, Cairn of the Skeleton King and Tower of Blood both had an official 'Runic' issue of 26 copies each, accompanied by a certificate lettered A-Z, and as I recall, an official first release of 350 numbered copies, again accompanied by a numbered certificate.


Rob also issued various author's copies, and other non-standard numberings within the full original print runs, but I don't think I have a full inventory of them.  There were some discussions with Eric Shook here BITD that may shed some further light on those, though.

mbassoc2003 wrote in RJK / PPP  Print run(s) question...:Both first print runs obviously may well have had additional undisclosed 'authors copies' and an educated guess (although I may be blissfully ignorant here) would be that an initial run of 400 copies was ordered, 350 numbered, 26 runic, and the balance, minus any snafus/packing/printing errors gives you your balance of 'undocumented' copies.


In particular, a number of copies of Cairn disappeared in the mail or were damaged in transit (Rob was shipping USPS Media Mail at the time), so the actual number of available 1st printing Cairn copies is probably ~10% lower than the original print run of 500.  

mbassoc2003 wrote in RJK / PPP  Print run(s) question...:Now, with Bottle City you have two official releases (although a reprint is also on the way I believe).


Ian is quite correct:  the Black Blade edition of Bottle City is in layout now, and should be available to purchase at GaryCon if we get it back from the printer on time.  Ours is not just a straight reprint of the original PPP book either:  in addition to fixing the known (and less known ;) ) errata in the Pied Piper version, Jon and I provided stat blocks for all encountered monsters, including memorized spells for casters, so the adventure is much more ready-to-run than the PPP version was.


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Post Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:09 am 
 

Oh, and IIRC the reprinted Cairn and Tower copies have original printing covers, since Rob had over-printed those relative to the booklets.  That may have been why only 60 copies of Cairn were reprinted---that may have been all of the remaining cover stock that Rob had left, after damaged copies were taken care of.

Black Blade will be reprinting Cairn and Tower as well, but we don't have a definite schedule for that yet (we'll likely have to decide between reprinting them in time for NTX vs. printing some new products).


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