The Cataclysm is Here...
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Post Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:17 pm 
 

ashmire13 wrote in The Cataclysm is Here...:Certainly seems a repeating process in place now, many people getting nothing and no updates

The reply from PGS just says “reply sent, check your messages” as a stock answer  :roll:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/pa ... w/comments


If its any consolation, it'll be available for free for everyone to download within a few months of releasing the PDFs. Either a Google search or a quick look in The Trove and you can save it to your harddrive.
That must really kill the market for the alsorans, because the only products of value are the ones that are really well written, really well produced, or published by really notable authors. Ben Barsh doesn't produce products in any of those categories. They're all homebrew stuff run through a DTP package like 1001 other homebrew publishers out there.

What are the odds that they've coloured in graph paper and photocopied it to make the maps?
Do you think they've used their art budget this time on the book, or on Mountain Dew and Cheetos?


This week I've been mostly eating . . . chicken and wild rice soup.

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Post Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 11:08 am 
 

ashmire13 wrote in The Cataclysm is Here...:Certainly seems a repeating process in place now, many people getting nothing and no updates

The reply from PGS just says “reply sent, check your messages” as a stock answer  :roll:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/pa ... w/comments


Not sure I draw that broad a conclusion from the comments. That KS funded only a month ago with promised delivery dates as May 2021.  There are a couple guys asking about pledge manager emails, but it seems a little early for those to happen just yet (based on what I have seen from other KS).  And then a guy asking about "missing orders," but unrelated to this KS, could even be from Cataclysm.

So I don't think anything there shows that they are necessarily dropping the ball on this KS. But it's early.

  

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Post Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:23 pm 
 

The guys comments are most certainly about Cataclysm. Unfortunately this is going to happen. Don't be surprised if there are people who start to "troll" these comments, individuals who have backed this at  $8 just  so they can comment as a fuck you to Bill Barsh. Perhaps not right but….........


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Post Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 4:29 pm 
 

I'm assuming if you're being blanked by the Barsh party and you've lost money, you'll use any channels to see if you can get a response.

I have no horse in the race, but I would say the best way to get some sort of recognition that you've been wronged is to go after the Barsh's income source. If that means kicking up a stink, and flooding all the forums you can find with allegations that you can substantiate (because Bill and Ben have every right to sue if they believe they have been wronged), then that is what wronged individuals should do. And of course Ben has stepped up to the plate and insinuated himself into the family business as he puts it, so he would be the logical target for the questions, because if you wish to illicit a response from someone, go got their parent or their child. People are far less likely to resist criticism of their mothers or their children, that of themselves. So this could be a perfectly logical method of seeking answers and information. Especially if the company is still going and just refusing to complete a project they have been paid for.

Of course we don't know the story behind any question being asked, or whether anyone was left without the things they believed they had paid for, but given the voices on this forum, and the complete absence of any denial from Pacesetter Games & Simulations, I don't think its 'trolling'. I seems like people are seeking answers from anyone with a pair of bollocks and a spinal column.

It must be very frustrating if you feel wronged, to see the company still moving ahead and taking money off of other people, if you feel like you haven't received your goods. But unlike the scams on eBay, that we document, in this instance the addresses of the people involved are discoverable to all parties involved in the transaction, and it wouldn't surprise me if they get door stepped at some point by a disgruntled buyer who felt so aggrieved and had the time on his hands and the motivation to go and seek them out. SO you have to watch yourself when you choose to ignore people who you've taken money from and who are not happy. Especially in the US.


This week I've been mostly eating . . . chicken and wild rice soup.


Last edited by mbassoc2003 on Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:41 pm 
 

Yep, this will run and run. A lot of people will now "troll" (for want of a better word) the Barsh family just for mischief and giggles. Perhaps a bit sad but karma's a bitch as they say.
Of course Bill and Ben could bring the full force of the law9 to bear, but good luck with that. Even domestically they would struggle to bring a winnable (by anyone but lawyers) case and internationally it would be a total non-starter.


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Post Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:22 pm 
 

To be fair, the people who pledge are partly to blame, and some take it easier than others.
We have a free online money stream with a very low threshold to start taking in money, and those who pledge wonder why those who use the income stream don't meet the standards they have set for the transaction they think they're entering into.
I can't see anyone getting upset over a $20 mistake. Most of them would just chalk it up to experience and move on.
Which I suppose is what makes Kickstarter such good income stream, if technically you only need to worry about the opinions of those in the higher pledge brackets, and you can ignore the herd if you have to.


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Post Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:59 pm 
 

I wouldnt say I’m trolling PGS so I’ll stop posting on this thread.

All I’m concerned about and highlighting is that once respected member of the Acaeum is seemingly tearing the arse out of backers and not dealing with it.


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Post Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2020 4:24 am 
 

ashmire13 wrote in The Cataclysm is Here...:I wouldn't say I’m trolling PGS so I’ll stop posting on this thread.

All I’m concerned about and highlighting is that once respected member of the Acaeum is seemingly tearing the arse out of backers and not dealing with it.

I think he was referring me for pointing out that if people want to complain they need to act in unison and be far more volumatic than would be expected from the numbers, and that tactically when you take on an organisation and seek redress, you must make it personal and do it loud, not permit the owners to hide behind their company's identity. Otherwise they're just another whinging shmuck pissing into the wind and complaining that things are starting to smell a little.

Yeah, Bill bit off more than he could chew, didn't get himself a decent writer or someone to draw maps, and produces some very really bad products compared to his competitors. But that again is the fault of all the idiots who are happy to buy any old crap and don't see any difference between quality and crap when they spend $12. If you can get paid for printing stuff like that, good on ya.

And yeah, Ben has decided he's part of this family business, and we haven't seen any evidence that his time at FGG has resulted in him learning the difference in quality between the two, and we haven't seen any evidence that the the ethics of his former employers have had any impact on him. But maybe he's working diligently and in secret behind the scenes and he's going to make good on everyone his father let down. Personally I doubt that.

Can they deliver on any of the outstanding Kickstarters? Maybe. Only time will tell.
Can they employ a cartographer who doesn't use magic markers and graph paper? Definitely. The world is saturated with people who are capable, looking for work and have time on their hands.
Will they? I doubt it. It goes against what they are know for.

Is all this trolling or is it criticism and constructive advice? Well, on the basis that Bill and Ben are unwilling to take any advice or address and criticism, then it isn't constructive advice to them. But it does serve as advice to others about how not to run Kickstarters, what happens when you ignore the people who feel wronged when you have taken their money, and it also may offer ideas as to how wronged patrons may wish to leverage their grievances into constructive action with a view to affecting change.
Will anyone ever do anything? I doubt it. But if these things are written about, Bill and Ben Barsh and Pacesetter Games and Simulations actions, or lack thereof, will be a matter of record for anyone searching for their company or their names in the future, and the more entries, the greater the likelihood of hits.

I don't think its trolling to point out the flaws in someone's products, or the manner in which they conduct their business. Particularly when they do not deliver on pledges made in exchange for money. Nor do I think its trolling to criticise their actions and what those actions may say about their value system. But then most people don't care about the values or ethics of the organisations and people they buy from. So, like all the climate change muppets and the millennial snowflakes, maybe criticising the ethics of taking more money from simps is rather naïve and foolish of me.

Either may its not trolling, but I am open to criticism because it allows me to evaluate my own view of the world and alters what I say in the future.


This week I've been mostly eating . . . chicken and wild rice soup.

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Post Posted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:23 pm 
 

FWIW (I’m not following, pledging, or paying attention to another KS from PGS) - I did eventually get 2 sets but never saw any of the contributor (Archmage level?) level pledge materials.  No artwork, no original numbered copy, etc.  Which was pretty much the only reason I pledged.

KS in general has turned into a preorder store, and most of the cool stuff you’d get for pledging turns up in whomever’s online store or on eBay shortly after delivery.  Once you stop chasing Pokémon it becomes much less of a draw.

  


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Post Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:57 am 
 

This is interesting, the latest PGS Kickstarter was only run for a month and cleared $15K! Nice money if you can make it

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/pa ... aign/posts


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Post Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 1:42 pm 
 

That's good business so long as the recipients get what they paid for.
And don't forget that Kickstarter take their bite out of the top line, and in most states Pacesetter will have to pay tax on that money when it lands, not when it gets spent, so they're probably looking at between $10K and $12K which hardly sustains a printed module project if the writers are expecting to take money from the business. Clearly they can't afford artists or cartographers on that sort of money, so you end up with artwork from people on Fiver and maps with a magic market and a photocopier.
Bottom like is that's the real low end of the market, and to run a business on that sort of 'success', you need to be running one of those each week, or you need to be ding this on your kitchen table and looking for real jobs with real publishers.
So I'd expect Ben to have a real job, and this to be Bills retirement jaunt - And he has put out about 40 or 50 products let's not forget.
Let's hope the backers get something for their money - something worth their money and their trust - and let's hope they can build trust back up in the gaming community.

At least when Ernie Gygax did it, he had his name to hide behind, and a product he could sell to TLG for a second bite at the cherry.


This week I've been mostly eating . . . chicken and wild rice soup.

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