The former Non-TSR Recent Fun Finds Thread • Page 13 • Collecting General

The Acaeum Forums • Collecting General - Non TSR

The former Non-TSR Recent Fun Finds Thread
	Page 13 of 114 • 1 2 3 ... 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 ... 112 113 114

Author

bclarkie
Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6455
Joined: Dec 13, 2004
Last Visit: Apr 20, 2023

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:06 pm

Ok here goes:

Here are some pictures of my Compleat Tavern:

The above mentioned Dart Board:

The apparently photocopied map. Note that this is actually folded in fours and each fourth is a little smaller than an iterior page. Also, the paper that this map is on is totally different in texture and color than the interior pages:

Here is the small yellow cardstock pullout with the floorplan:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now onto the Monty Haul Dungeon:

Here is the Front Cover:

Here is the Back Cover:

Here is the middle of the booklet where the staples are:

And here is a closer look at one of the staples:

So what do you all think?

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Neitzche

pleveich
Prolific Collector

Posts: 137
Joined: Apr 23, 2005
Last Visit: Dec 18, 2014
Location: Edmond, OK

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:20 pm

I have both items and will check what you have against mine tomorrow afternoon when I get home from work.

John

"Everyone is entitled to Al's opinion."

tfm
Prolific Collector

Posts: 186
Joined: Apr 13, 2005
Last Visit: Apr 06, 2006
Location: At the Door of the Colorado National Monument

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:32 pm

This is really sucking. Here's an image from the inside of my MH:

As you can see, it is definitely a photocopy. The previous staple holes appear on all the pages and the cover. It may be that someone at Gamelords did this, but I'm now convinced that curled staples indicate a copy. Whether it's a legit copy or not is another matter, but it is not an original.

mbassoc2003
Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6997
Joined: Jan 03, 2005
Last Visit: Apr 28, 2024
Location: UK

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:42 pm

As regards Montie Haul, the border around the perimeter of the cover concerns me. Aside from it being monocolor, it looks like a product assembled from paper/card that is pre-cut. With the original, the printing runs to the edges because all the sheets are oversized, staples into a book and then giloutined to get flush edges.

My impession is that it is a later copy assembled on the cheap. Either a later rerun by Gamelords, or a fake.

I cannot talk wisely about Tavers as I've never owned one. Could LZ have been running off copies for his business? He has been known to publish his own copies of a lot of stuff, and that would explain the scale and dispersal of the products.

This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

bclarkie
Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6455
Joined: Dec 13, 2004
Last Visit: Apr 20, 2023

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:46 pm

tfm wrote:This is really sucking. Here's an image from the inside of my MH:

[ Image ]

As you can see, it is definitely a photocopy. The previous staple holes appear on all the pages and the cover. It may be that someone at Gamelords did this, but I'm now convinced that curled staples indicate a copy. Whether it's a legit copy or not is another matter, but it is not an original.

Interesting. You can definitely see on your copy where the previous staples were when that page was copied. Mine howver does not have that at all. I would give up hope completely though, as evidenced by what Wee Warriors did with the PotVQ, it is entirely possible that they made these photocopies themselves piecemeal and put them in for printing errors and missing pages.

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Neitzche

Plaag
Long-Winded Collector
Subweb Admin
JG Valuation Board

Posts: 4584
Joined: Nov 08, 2002
Last Visit: Apr 28, 2024
Location: Land of 10,000 ponds

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:49 pm

My Monte Haul has its staples in the spine not off like bclarkie's copy, yet no photo copy marks like tfm's.

I also have the non-pink copy of Compleat Tavern and its inside front and back covers are not the color of the cover/back cover.

ShaneG.

FormCritic
Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6720
Joined: Jul 16, 2005
Last Visit: Sep 30, 2022

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:51 pm

Wait. Don't chuck your copy of MH yet.

Before you dismiss your copy of MH as a fake, consider another possibility. Maybe the people at Gamelords recognized that the staples from the printer were off-center. They do not match the folded crease. Perhaps they fixed the interior pages by photocopy and re-did the stapling job. (It is possible that the printer actualy did the photocopying.)

Having made such an elementary printing mistake, the printers may have been on the hook for it.

That would make your copy a part of the original print run, but one of the copies that had a slightly different history. I was in printing in the 80's. I have personal experience with a goofed print run very much like this one. :oops:

This used to happen all the time...maybe it still does.

Sometimes there is different paper stock available that would cost both the customer and the printer less money...which influences printing decisions. Time constraints are also a big influence on these types of printing jobs...and Gamelords may have been in a hurry to meet a shipping deadline or a convention date. In fact, this is very likely.

It is also possible that the covers were re-printed to fix the stapling error, with some variation in the color. Some ink colors cost more than others and sometimes it took time to get a given color of ink back into stock.

Since the interior pages could be corrected by photocopy, that is probably what was done. The cover could not be photocopied and so it was fixed in a different way.

It is possible that the printing errors were a boon to Gamelords, since they could sell the slightly irregular copies as well as the corrected prints. 8) (The printer certainly had no use for them.)

It is possible. The visual evidence seems to suggest something like this.

Mark

"But I have watched the dragons come, fire-eyed, across the world."

FormCritic
Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6720
Joined: Jul 16, 2005
Last Visit: Sep 30, 2022

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:53 pm

Plaag wrote:My Monte Haul has its staples in the spine not off like bclarkie's copy, yet no photo copy marks like tfm's.

I also have the non-pink copy of Compleat Tavern and its inside front and back covers are not the color of the cover/back cover.

ShaneG.

Mine as well...and my Compleate Tavern is signed by Kerry Lloyd. (supposedly)

"But I have watched the dragons come, fire-eyed, across the world."

bclarkie
Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6455
Joined: Dec 13, 2004
Last Visit: Apr 20, 2023

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:56 pm

mbassoc2003 wrote:As regards Montie Haul, the border around the perimeter of the cover concerns me. Aside from it being monocolor, it looks like a product assembled from paper/card that is pre-cut. With the original, the printing runs to the edges because all the sheets are oversized, staples into a book and then giloutined to get flush edges.

My impession is that it is a later copy assembled on the cheap. Either a later rerun by Gamelords, or a fake.

I cannot talk wisely about Tavers as I've never owned one. Could LZ have been running off copies for his business? He has been known to publish his own copies of a lot of stuff, and that would explain the scale and dispersal of the products.

Plaag wrote:My Monte Haul has its staples in the spine not off like bclarkie's copy, yet no photo copy marks like tfm's.

I also have the non-pink copy of Compleat Tavern and its inside front and back covers are not the color of the cover/back cover.

ShaneG.

Christ, this gets stranger by the minute.

Anything at this point seems to be possible and this is starting to borderline on the insanity that we like to call The Palace of the Vampire Queen.

As far as LZ goes, it is also a possibility I suppose, but didnt he always put his name on everything that he was producing?

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Neitzche

mbassoc2003
Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6997
Joined: Jan 03, 2005
Last Visit: Apr 28, 2024
Location: UK

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:28 pm

My gut instinct is that someone is running off fake digests at a copshop and selling them slowly on eBay. Maybe they aren't active anymore, and maybe the 'fakes' are rarer than the real copies.

I can't comment on Taverns, but that Montie Haul is not printed, its photocopied. Now I can't say Gamelords didn't decide to publish photocopies, but I don't see it.

Who was your source for these? You could PM me if you wish. I'm just interested. I picked up a couple of 'fake' fanzines and cross checked with Brette. Mine are definate fakes. I'm just curious about your seller.

You're right. Lou always stuck his stickers over everything. As for PoVQ, we don't know how many fakes are running around out there, and we haven't found a way of confirming whether any are fake, and how to identify them. If there are any fakes, I'd bet on the ones without the two tone grid.

This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

grodog
Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 5834
Joined: Nov 16, 2002
Last Visit: Apr 29, 2024
Location: Wichita, KS, USA

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:30 pm

burntwire wrote:If I remember right I think the Pink cover came from Crazy Egor's. I think we bought it in 2003. I have seen the pink cover version on Ebay a few times but can't remember if they were from the same seller. Hard to believe that someone would bother counterfeiting these. Allan busted Egor one year for selling copies of "The City of Brass".

They were printed right off the Acaeum, too :roll:

FWIW, I remember hearing rumors that Igor was selling counterfeit B3s at GenCon in the 1990s.

I've got a copy of Monte Haul Dungeon as well, but IIRC it was very similar to the Complete Tavern, and it certainly didn't have a garish color cover

Allan Grohe ([email protected])
Greyhawk, grodog Style

Editor and Project Manager, Black Blade Publishing
https://www.facebook.com/BlackBladePublishing/

mbassoc2003
Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6997
Joined: Jan 03, 2005
Last Visit: Apr 28, 2024
Location: UK

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:32 pm

Someone mentioned Crazy Egor was selling PoVQ photocopies at conventions, too. $20 a pop IIRC.

This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

tfm
Prolific Collector

Posts: 186
Joined: Apr 13, 2005
Last Visit: Apr 06, 2006
Location: At the Door of the Colorado National Monument

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:35 pm

Well, it's not t.p. yet. I just don't like the possibility that some asswipe is out there making money off of something that doesn't belong to him/her; especially given that a lot of the startups got screwed over (WW).

Fakes are an interesting sub-genre to the hobby and deserve some attention. More specifically, LCOT would not be terribly difficult to reproduce. The cover paper would hang-up a thief on comparison to a real one, but he/she could approximate it, and that's the problem.

As for my MH, the pages do stick out beyond the cover, like somebody used 8.5 x 11 stock and folded it over. The lettering on the cover for my CT (pink) is sloppy and not as dense as the CT (brown).

It's possible that the curled-staple versions are legitimate, but we'll have to wait until Allan gets back to us.

Try looking up Gamelords at some of the more popular online RPG resellers. They are out there.

bclarkie
Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6455
Joined: Dec 13, 2004
Last Visit: Apr 20, 2023

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:38 pm

mbassoc2003 wrote:My gut instinct is that someone is running off fake digests at a copshop and selling them slowly on eBay. Maybe they aren't active anymore, and maybe the 'fakes' are rarer than the real copies.

I can't comment on Taverns, but that Montie Haul is not printed, its photocopied. Now I can't say Gamelords didn't decide to publish photocopies, but I don't see it.

Who was your source for these? You could PM me if you wish. I'm just interested. I picked up a couple of 'fake' fanzines and cross checked with Brette. Mine are definate fakes. I'm just curious about your seller.

You're right. Lou always stuck his stickers over everything. As for PoVQ, we don't know how many fakes are running around out there, and we haven't found a way of confirming whether any are fake, and how to identify them. If there are any fakes, I'd bet on the ones without the two tone grid.

The seller who sold me my copies was dandplayer:

eBay Feedback Profile for dandplayer

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Neitzche

grodog
Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 5834
Joined: Nov 16, 2002
Last Visit: Apr 29, 2024
Location: Wichita, KS, USA

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:40 pm

Plaag wrote:My Monte Haul has its staples in the spine not off like bclarkie's copy, yet no photo copy marks like tfm's.

I also have the non-pink copy of Compleat Tavern and its inside front and back covers are not the color of the cover/back cover.

Good point Shane. My copies are darker on the exterior color, lighter on the interior color sides. My copies have flat stapes (with some rusting on the CT). MHD has red title and "No-Shamelords unlted." lettering on the cover, with brown door/scroll; the back cover is red lettering for the quotation at the top, and brown for the small type.

My MHD says "first printing: February 1982" on the title page, no printing indicated on MHD.

Allan Grohe ([email protected])
Greyhawk, grodog Style

Editor and Project Manager, Black Blade Publishing
https://www.facebook.com/BlackBladePublishing/

bclarkie
Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6455
Joined: Dec 13, 2004
Last Visit: Apr 20, 2023

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:46 pm

tfm wrote:Well, it's not t.p. yet. I just don't like the possibility that some asswipe is out there making money off of something that doesn't belong to him/her; especially given that a lot of the startups got screwed over (WW).

Fakes are an interesting sub-genre to the hobby and deserve some attention. More specifically, LCOT would not be terribly difficult to reproduce. The cover paper would hang-up a thief on comparison to a real one, but he/she could approximate it, and that's the problem.

As for my MH, the pages do stick out beyond the cover, like somebody used 8.5 x 11 stock and folded it over. The lettering on the cover for my CT (pink) is sloppy and not as dense as the CT (brown).

It's possible that the curled-staple versions are legitimate, but we'll have to wait until Allan gets back to us.

Try looking up Gamelords at some of the more popular online RPG resellers. They are out there.

I just checked NKG, and to further confuse things, he has a copy of both the Pink CT and also a copy of the Red Printed MHD.

:

Compleat Tavern, The

Phantastical Phantasmagorical Montie Haul Dungeon, The

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Neitzche

mbassoc2003
Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6997
Joined: Jan 03, 2005
Last Visit: Apr 28, 2024
Location: UK

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:47 pm

My MHD says 1st Printing 1982 also. Mine is the brown door/red writing printed on tan card cover version.

This week I've been mostly eating . . . The white ones with the little red flecks in them.

scribe
Prolific Collector

Posts: 590
Joined: Nov 10, 2002
Last Visit: Oct 15, 2020
Location: NYC

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:01 pm

Unless the original company can step up and say they printed these anamolies, I am gonna stick by my theory that a store or distributor was making these to profit from.

The LZ/Egor theory is particularly interesting and makes the most sense to me....yet I am in no hurry to convict them in all fairness absent proof.

"before chuck even gets in the room, you can feel the bad-ness." -Al

The Acaeum Forums • Collecting General - Non TSR

Page 13 of 114 • 1 2 3 ... 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 ... 112 113 114