The former Non-TSR Recent Fun Finds Thread
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies. Page 11 of 103123 ... 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 ... 101102103
Author

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 5645
Joined: Jun 30, 2003
Last Visit: Sep 19, 2021
Location: New Hampsha

Post Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:08 pm 
 

If it was an original, one of the two would almost definitely have a printing number.

Given the radical differences between the two, and the fact that it probably did not sell well enough when it came out to warrant reprinting, AND the fact that the only copies anyone has ever seen came from the same source (and it isn't exactly uncommon), AND the fact that Tadashie has never seen or heard of it, I think it's a safe bet it is a copy.


If you hit a Rowsdower, you get to keep it.

 WWW  


Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 5653
Joined: Nov 16, 2002
Last Visit: Sep 21, 2021
Location: Wichita, KS, USA

Post Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:10 pm 
 

Tadashi thought it was a fake, but that doesn't mean it may not be legit; I'll have to dig up Janet Trautvetter's email to see if she recalls any details (the other GL principals I know were later-era GL folks like Walter Hunt).


Allan Grohe ([email protected])
Greyhawk, grodog Style

Editor and Project Manager, Black Blade Publishing
https://www.facebook.com/BlackBladePublishing/

 WWW  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 590
Joined: Nov 10, 2002
Last Visit: Oct 15, 2020
Location: NYC

Post Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:28 pm 
 

My CT (pink) came from burtwire last year.




I knew those guys must be making that stuff in their basement.  :P


"before chuck even gets in the room, you can feel the bad-ness." -Al

  


Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 5653
Joined: Nov 16, 2002
Last Visit: Sep 21, 2021
Location: Wichita, KS, USA

Post Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:33 pm 
 

FWIW, I checked Heroic Worlds,and it only lists a single printing.  That may not be terribly relevant if there was a really small first print run---there are certainly plenty of non-TSR items that are not to be found in HW.


Allan Grohe ([email protected])
Greyhawk, grodog Style

Editor and Project Manager, Black Blade Publishing
https://www.facebook.com/BlackBladePublishing/

 WWW  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6402
Joined: Jan 03, 2005
Last Visit: Sep 22, 2021
Location: UK

Post Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:35 pm 
 

Adam Shultz wrote:I knew those guys must be making that stuff in their basement. :P


:lol: :lol: :lol:


This week I've been mostly eating . . . minestrone soup.

 WWW  


Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6463
Joined: Dec 13, 2004
Last Visit: Apr 04, 2021

Post Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:40 pm 
 

Okay the plot thickens. I purchased a copy of the Monty Hall Dungeon off the same seller at teh same time as I bought The Compleat Tavern. The Monty Hall Dungeon is different from the one listed on Afterglow. It is on heavy yellow cardstock paper as well, but it lacks the redish coloration of the text on the cover than the one listed on Afterglow. The Monty Haul looks like it could be a fake because of the fact that cover artwork iself cuts off before then edges leaving space between the print and the edge. Here is the deal though, but other than that, it looks and feels authentic s well. It also has that "New Old Module smell", just like the Compleat Tavern:?  Another thing that really monkeys things up away from being a fake is that Gamelords did produce at least one other legitimate product with a different cover: The Mines of Keridaev. I have 2, both with different covers and both are definitely legit. The other question that needs to be raised, is that if someone did fake them, why and the hell would you spend so much effort to fake a $3.00 or $4.00 item? Like I said if these things are in fact fakes, someone went through a lot of effort to make them seem as legit as possible. :? Just doesn't make sense


"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Neitzche

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 8219
Joined: Jan 21, 2005
Last Visit: Jun 12, 2017
Location: Wallasey, Merseyside, UK

Post Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:45 pm 
 

i have two different mines of keridav. one looks fab and the other looks really lame. if i recollect, the BW bros had the 2nd print of it up not so long ago. without going into boxes to look, i think the printing dates are quite a bit apart too...



Al



  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 590
Joined: Nov 10, 2002
Last Visit: Oct 15, 2020
Location: NYC

Post Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:51 pm 
 

That item doesn't really command enough money to warrant the effort if they were done recently. Might make more sense if they are much older fakes and the conterfeiter intended to sell these out of their store way back when.



Interesting for sure.


"before chuck even gets in the room, you can feel the bad-ness." -Al

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6402
Joined: Jan 03, 2005
Last Visit: Sep 22, 2021
Location: UK

Post Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:54 pm 
 

My Montie Haul has thin flimsy white paper pages with a card cover that looks like the picture on Afterglow.



It sounds like you may have a good solid source of fakes. Who is the seller? They may not know of course, but just so we can all be warey.



There is the original Pheonix Keridav, and the black cover Keridav reprint. Are those the two you are thinking of, Alan?


This week I've been mostly eating . . . minestrone soup.

 WWW  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector

Posts: 8219
Joined: Jan 21, 2005
Last Visit: Jun 12, 2017
Location: Wallasey, Merseyside, UK

Post Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:58 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:Pheonix Keridav, and the black cover Keridav reprint. Are those the two you are thinking of, Alan?




ian, yes mate!



Al



  


Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6463
Joined: Dec 13, 2004
Last Visit: Apr 04, 2021

Post Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 3:03 pm 
 

Okay, I just busted out both of my copies of The Mines of Keridav. One is from Gamelords and one is actually Phoenix Games, but both were in fact written and created by Kerry Lloyd. Of note the Phoenix Games copy is older as noted by a 1979 copyright, where as the Game Lords copy has a copyright date of 1983. Outside of the covers on a quick scan, they appear to be identical in content and the pages on both are most certainly from the same paper and both contain the "old module smell" as the Monty Haul/Compleat Tavern. The newer Gamelords copy has a few extra pages included at the end of some tables and printed on the inside of the back cover is a listing of products and contact information for Gamelords which is obviously not contained in the Phoenix games version.



I am not so sure about the Monty Haul Dungeon, but I am telling you the more I look at the Compleat Tavern, the more I become convinced that it is legit. There is actually a dart board printed on the inside of the back cover and that sucker is printed on there it is not photocopied.


"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Neitzche

  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 186
Joined: Apr 13, 2005
Last Visit: Apr 06, 2006
Location: At the Door of the Colorado National Monument

Post Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 3:06 pm 
 

The Monte Haul I have sounds a lot like yours (bc).  What is interesting is that the MH (black/yellow) has the same stapling as the CT (pink), with the arms rounding back into the book.  My CT (brown), Duel Arcane and Monday Morning Manager (all real Gamelords) all have the arms of the staples flattened back against the book.  It's not much, but it is a difference.

  

User avatar

Verbose Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 1228
Joined: Mar 08, 2003
Last Visit: Sep 21, 2021
Location: Close to GenCon

Post Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 3:08 pm 
 

If I remember right I think the Pink cover came from Crazy Egor's. I think we bought it in 2003. I have seen the pink cover version on Ebay a few times but can't remember if they were from the same seller. Hard to believe that someone would bother counterfeiting these. Allan busted Egor one year for selling copies of "The City of Brass".



Shawn

  


Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6463
Joined: Dec 13, 2004
Last Visit: Apr 04, 2021

Post Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 3:14 pm 
 

tfm wrote:The Monte Haul I have sounds a lot like yours (bc). What is interesting is that the MH (black/yellow) has the same stapling as the CT (pink), with the arms rounding back into the book. My CT (brown), Duel Arcane and Monday Morning Manager (all real Gamelords) all have the arms of the staples flattened back against the book. It's not much, but it is a difference.




Very intersting and a great point. My GL Mines of Keridav also has flattened staples. Here is something for you to think about though, my CT & MHD both are just like yours as far as the stapling goes with them rounding back in to the booklet And my Phoenix Games Mines of Keridav module has the satples rounding back in as well. The staples in the PG Mines are a little longer than the CT & MHD, but they are defintely rounding into the module and are not flat. :?


"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Neitzche

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6402
Joined: Jan 03, 2005
Last Visit: Sep 22, 2021
Location: UK

Post Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 3:28 pm 
 

Could you post a picture of the Montie Haul?


This week I've been mostly eating . . . minestrone soup.

 WWW  


Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6463
Joined: Dec 13, 2004
Last Visit: Apr 04, 2021

Post Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 3:53 pm 
 

mbassoc2003 wrote:Could you post a picture of the Montie Haul?




Ian, I will. Just give me a minute. :)  I also have to email Shane a picture that he is waiting on too.


"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Neitzche

  


Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6463
Joined: Dec 13, 2004
Last Visit: Apr 04, 2021

Post Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:06 pm 
 

Ok here goes:



Here are some pictures of my Compleat Tavern:



The above mentioned Dart Board:



Image



The apparently photocopied map.  Note that this is actually folded in fours and each fourth is a little smaller than an iterior page.  Also, the paper that this map is on is totally different in texture and color than the interior pages:



Image



Here is the small yellow cardstock pullout with the floorplan:



Image



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Now onto the Monty Haul Dungeon:



Here is the Front Cover:



Image



Here is the Back Cover:



Image



Here is the middle of the booklet where the staples are:



Image



And here is a closer look at one of the staples:



Image





So what do you all think?


"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." -Neitzche

  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 137
Joined: Apr 23, 2005
Last Visit: Dec 18, 2014
Location: Edmond, OK

Post Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:20 pm 
 

I have both items and will check what you have against mine tomorrow afternoon when I get home from work.



John


"Everyone is entitled to Al's opinion."

  


Prolific Collector

Posts: 186
Joined: Apr 13, 2005
Last Visit: Apr 06, 2006
Location: At the Door of the Colorado National Monument

Post Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:32 pm 
 

This is really sucking.  Here's an image from the inside of my MH:



Image



As you can see, it is definitely a photocopy.  The previous staple holes appear on all the pages and the cover.  It may be that someone at Gamelords did this, but I'm now convinced that curled staples indicate a copy.  Whether it's a legit copy or not is another matter, but it is not an original.

  

User avatar

Grandstanding Collector
Acaeum Donor

Posts: 6402
Joined: Jan 03, 2005
Last Visit: Sep 22, 2021
Location: UK

Post Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:42 pm 
 

As regards Montie Haul, the border around the perimeter of the cover concerns me. Aside from it being monocolor, it looks like a product assembled from paper/card that is pre-cut. With the original, the printing runs to the edges because all the sheets are oversized, staples into a book and then giloutined to get flush edges.



My impession is that it is a later copy assembled on the cheap. Either a later rerun by Gamelords, or a fake.



I cannot talk wisely about Tavers as I've never owned one. Could LZ have been running off copies for his business? He has been known to publish his own copies of a lot of stuff, and that would explain the scale and dispersal of the products.


This week I've been mostly eating . . . minestrone soup.

 WWW  
PreviousNext
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies. Page 11 of 103123 ... 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 ... 101102103