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Post Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:19 pm 
 

I'd vote for closure too... the first KS I backed is well over a year late and every 'update' is a reminder how I wished I passed.  Infuriatingly, the creators even launched another KS project and promoted it to us backers while the first project languished.   :?


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Post Posted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:38 pm 
 

Thunderdave wrote in Kickstarter projects:I'd vote for closure too... the first KS I backed is well over a year late and every 'update' is a reminder how I wished I passed.  Infuriatingly, the creators even launched another KS project and promoted it to us backers while the first project languished.   :?


What they should have is a contract with kickstarter (and the backers) that provides a definite time commitment (within the period that you can do a chargeback on your credit card) that offers and end to the project if it they pass that time. These massively delayed projects are absurd. Even with something like OGRE that I am 99.9% certain is going to be released the delay has sapped my enthusiasm for the project immensely.


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Post Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:13 am 
 

Or at least there should be a limit to how many projects you can have open and unfulfilled at one time.


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Post Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2013 10:20 am 
 

It's done, we reach the 100% for Grimtooth 3.0, the new Grimtooth Traps! Thanks to all our backers! And in only 3 weeks so we expected a lot of bonus now!

Next level at 2500€ to get a better cover quality! Sewn cover with flaps.

And certainly another surprise level before this if we reach it quickly.

Thanks again!


PS: for those who want to back, here is what you get at each pledge level:

- Maraudeur:
you get a hard copy of the book.

- Pillard Légendaire:
you get a hard copy of the book
+ your name in credits

- Ecumeur Emerite:
you get a hard copy of the book
+ your name in credits
+ another copy OR another game from Narrativiste Edition (excluded boxed games), i.e. Donjon (Clinton) for example.

- Ecumeur Emerite 2:
you get a hard copy of the book
+ your name in credits
+ Dungeon World (French translation in a boxed set illustrated by Russ Nicholson) OR a limited t-shirt

- Avatar
you get a hard copy of the book
+ your name in credits
+ another copy OR another game from Narrativiste Edition (excluded boxed games), i.e. Donjon (Clinton) for example.
+ a limited T-shirt

- Avatar 2:
you get a hard copy of the book
+ your name in credits
+ Dungeon World (French translation in a boxed set illustrated by Russ Nicholson)
+ a limited T-shirt

- Bras droit de Grimtooth:
Only one left
you get a hard copy of the book
+ your name in credits
+ Dungeon World or another Narrativiste game
+ a limited T-shirt
+ your personnalised traps: you give the idea, and we design a traps following your instructions, it will have your name


Adventures in Austerion : a fantasy RPG, with boardgame mechanisms and modular battlemap. By Guillaume Tavernier and Géraud G.

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Post Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2013 10:24 am 
 

Only one day and TWO bonus level have been reached on Grimtooth 3.0! The book will be with a sewn cover and flaps AND with a surprise to thanks all our backers. The  Grimtooth surprise! has been reached as well and we will announce soon what is this mysterious level :)

It is missing only 80€ to reach the next level, with new illustrations by Earl Geier, known for his excellent work on CoC. He will illustrate the first page of all chapters!


Adventures in Austerion : a fantasy RPG, with boardgame mechanisms and modular battlemap. By Guillaume Tavernier and Géraud G.

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Post Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:39 am 
 

I'm on board Grimtooth 3.0... that's me, a Pillard Légendaire!!!

Looks like a fun book, and well, if I struggle with the descriptions, it's always been the sketches of Grimtooth's Traps that were the most fun - I think I will enjoy this one :)

Good luck with the project Loki!


I draw the line at collecting... D&D Towels.

Did we need: Jade Magi Sewer Crawl

Shoulda been: ".. from Pangreenia to Floratopolis, from mystical Treeonia of spectral Forests to Schruborial dimensions."  - The Forests of Leng

  

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Post Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 11:56 am 
 

Thank you Thunderdave! Our first international backer!

I do hope to translate the new traps (the 100% French made ones) in English one day :)


Adventures in Austerion : a fantasy RPG, with boardgame mechanisms and modular battlemap. By Guillaume Tavernier and Géraud G.

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Post Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 12:04 pm 
 

This post is mostly about the RPG aspect of kickstarter, not really games as a whole. This is not a knock against John at all, he's been very good about weekly updates (up to update 49, I believe). But it has been a year since the Appendix N adventures has solicited funs and I believe not one single goal has been met from the write up (I had actually forgotten about this, to be honest, but I was only in for twenty bucks).  But I was just checking some stuff and was curious how many companies have actually benefitted from kickstarter, and how many companies/individuals have been stopped in their tracks by kickstarter.  For example Artisan dice seems to be flourishing and has seemingly benefitted.  The bigger companies who have participated (Reaper, Frog God) seem to have gotten their product out, don't know how much they benefitted (Bill says they broke even, I believe).   Jeff Talanian and Greg Gillespie seemed to have done well from the smaller side of the equation (don't know if those guys actually made any money, but they did get their games out, and they were pretty darn good).  

However, I see a lot from the opposite side also...James Maleszewski was pretty much ruined.  BHP is no longer publishing.  Any Mike Nystul project will forever be dead on arrival. Several other examples. These are guys/companies that are probably, for the forseeable future, finished.  Has kickstarter been good or bad for the RPG industry? Opinions?

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 12:55 pm 
 

Badmike wrote in Kickstarter projects:This post is mostly about the RPG aspect of kickstarter, not really games as a whole. This is not a knock against John at all, he's been very good about weekly updates (up to update 49, I believe). But it has been a year since the Appendix N adventures has solicited funs and I believe not one single goal has been met from the write up (I had actually forgotten about this, to be honest, but I was only in for twenty bucks).  But I was just checking some stuff and was curious how many companies have actually benefitted from kickstarter, and how many companies/individuals have been stopped in their tracks by kickstarter.  For example Artisan dice seems to be flourishing and has seemingly benefitted.  The bigger companies who have participated (Reaper, Frog God) seem to have gotten their product out, don't know how much they benefitted (Bill says they broke even, I believe).   Jeff Talanian and Greg Gillespie seemed to have done well from the smaller side of the equation (don't know if those guys actually made any money, but they did get their games out, and they were pretty darn good).  

However, I see a lot from the opposite side also...James Maleszewski was pretty much ruined.  BHP is no longer publishing.  Any Mike Nystul project will forever be dead on arrival. Several other examples. These are guys/companies that are probably, for the forseeable future, finished.  Has kickstarter been good or bad for the RPG industry? Opinions?

Mike B.


As a consumer I think it has done 'meh' for the industry. Reaper generated a huge new customer base and did its best to piss the goodwill they earned down a hole simply because the idiot in charge over there didn't like communicating with their customers. I think they are still trying to finish up their international shipping. Another one I back is OGRE. My enthusiasm for the project waned some time ago. It is going to be such a monster I don't know where I will store the damn thing (and that isn't praise).

The message I'd like to tell all these kickstarter people is to get their damn products out on time, that would keep my enthusiasm going and my goodwill. Instead, with late product they just fuel doubts, especially from unknowns. You make a production estimate, factor in all possible delays and double it. You also get as much of the project done before you start the kickstarter. Give your customers realistic expectations and you won't disappoint them. Doesn't seem like any of the kickstarter people have ever learned that lesson.


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Post Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 1:03 pm 
 

The biggest concern I have, and the biggest red-flag for me going forward now that I've been through a few projects, is the add-on creep.

I would expect, for the larger group of projects that aren't led by experienced in-the-business game companies and publishers (e.g. Rick Loomis, Frog God, Reaper), that just getting a RPG book through writing, editing, layout, art design, and printing, not to mention the huge undertaken of shipping - that right there is a huge accomplishment.

So I cringe when I see add-ons and bonus items, like t-shirts, bookmarks, postcards, miniatures, coffee cups, etc., etc.  For me, those extras are of nominal value (if any at all), and I see them as additional barriers to fulfillment,

I just backed the Shadows of Esteren project... I understand they have a track record, but the add-ons like video games - good grief.  I signed on for some books... and extras that I don't want are only going to slow down my book.  

I wish KS was simpler, projects were simpler, and creators were accountable.  I would gladly go back to the days of the 'pre-order'... you know, pay up front for a discount or maybe a low-number limited copy.  IMHO, YMMV, /rant, etc.  :)


I draw the line at collecting... D&D Towels.

Did we need: Jade Magi Sewer Crawl

Shoulda been: ".. from Pangreenia to Floratopolis, from mystical Treeonia of spectral Forests to Schruborial dimensions."  - The Forests of Leng

  

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Post Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 2:48 pm 
 

JasonZavoda wrote in Kickstarter projects:Reaper generated a huge new customer base and did its best to piss the goodwill they earned down a hole simply because the idiot in charge over there didn't like communicating with their customers. I think they are still trying to finish up their international shipping.


I am not sure what you are talking about with Reaper not communicating because I was a Reaper backer and they sent out almost 100 updates to customers explaining what was going on etc....  The last update I believe was on July 29th.  I received my stuff in late June which is roughly four months late.  Yes, there are still a few people who have not received their stuff yet, but I think we are talking about 5% of everyone who participated.  And while I do agree that the Kickstarter system and delays are seriously problematic, I personally don't have much of a beef with Reaper and their communications.  Knowing what I did about Kickstarter at the time, I assumed there were going to be delays.  Badmike out and out predicted it here on the Acaeum threads....somewhere. :?


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Post Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 3:49 pm 
 

benjoshua wrote in Kickstarter projects:
JasonZavoda wrote in Kickstarter projects:Reaper generated a huge new customer base and did its best to piss the goodwill they earned down a hole simply because the idiot in charge over there didn't like communicating with their customers. I think they are still trying to finish up their international shipping.


I am not sure what you are talking about with Reaper not communicating because I was a Reaper backer and they sent out almost 100 updates to customers explaining what was going on etc....  The last update I believe was on July 29th.  I received my stuff in late June which is roughly four months late.  Yes, there are still a few people who have not received their stuff yet, but I think we are talking about 5% of everyone who participated.  And while I do agree that the Kickstarter system and delays are seriously problematic, I personally don't have much of a beef with Reaper and their communications.  Knowing what I did about Kickstarter at the time, I assumed there were going to be delays.  Badmike out and out predicted it here on the Acaeum threads....somewhere. :?


Go through the comment thread on the bones kickstarter and you will find dozens of backers begging for updates. Sure they finally took their finger out of their ass, but they went silent for weeks at a time while backers were getting more and more upset everyday. Of course the Reaper fan-boy patrol was in full voice saying they didn't need updates and pulling their hair out in fear that Reaper might get mad and not do another kickstarter and generally insulting anyone who disagreed with them.

Reaper would say they couldn't post because they were so busy getting everything ready, then a month and half later we are told they are late because they have nothing to ship, pissing off more backers because of the double-talk and outright lies about the shipping delays. If they had nothing to ship why are they telling us they can't take 5 minutes to post a comment? Then you get posts on facebook and the reaper forums with bits and pieces of information. No, Reaper is an example of a company that needs someone to handle their PR and communications.


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Post Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:38 pm 
 

Good points especially about the "extras" creep that slows down projects. Look at Chaosium's Orient Express, coming up on a year, and with tons of add ons related to the project slowing it down (not to mention having to re-write the entire thing for the new 7th edition, instead of just coming out with what they had).  Now it's being delayed to after Gencon (2-3 months afterward, actually) and on top of that they have the gigantic C0C 7th edition kickstarter to take care of.  If I had to put my money on a established company whose KS will be way, way late, it would be this one.  And I think what is slowing it down are the bonus items.

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 5:27 pm 
 

JasonZavoda wrote in Kickstarter projects:Go through the comment thread on the bones kickstarter and you will find dozens of backers begging for updates. Sure they finally took their finger out of their ass, but they went silent for weeks at a time while backers were getting more and more upset everyday. Of course the Reaper fan-boy patrol was in full voice saying they didn't need updates and pulling their hair out in fear that Reaper might get mad and not do another kickstarter and generally insulting anyone who disagreed with them.

Reaper would say they couldn't post because they were so busy getting everything ready, then a month and half later we are told they are late because they have nothing to ship, pissing off more backers because of the double-talk and outright lies about the shipping delays. If they had nothing to ship why are they telling us they can't take 5 minutes to post a comment? Then you get posts on facebook and the reaper forums with bits and pieces of information. No, Reaper is an example of a company that needs someone to handle their PR and communications.


I don't know.  I know I got plenty of information in a timely manner.  I don't disagree that there were people who were unhappy, but that's usually true in any pool of people.  And it's also possible that no matter what Reaper said, they were still going to be dissatisfied.  Some people are just like that.  And sometimes it's better to just not feed the trolls; advice I don't take for myself often enough.  The bottom line for me is that I was very pleased with the Reaper Kickstarter in every way.  8)


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Post Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 6:54 pm 
 

Thunderdave wrote in Kickstarter projects:The biggest concern I have, and the biggest red-flag for me going forward now that I've been through a few projects, is the add-on creep.

I just backed the Shadows of Esteren project... I understand they have a track record, but the add-ons like video games - good grief.  I signed on for some books... and extras that I don't want are only going to slow down my book.  

I wish KS was simpler, projects were simpler, and creators were accountable.  I would gladly go back to the days of the 'pre-order'... you know, pay up front for a discount or maybe a low-number limited copy.  IMHO, YMMV, /rant, etc.  :)


I agree with all the extra's possibly causing delays of the main product. In the specific case of the Esteren team, I think they are doing a great job communicating about how they are planning to deliver on time. They have actually split deliveries of products, part to October, part to later in 2014. I think that's a good example of both informing people and setting a realistic schedule that you can actually keep.

Regarding the videogame, I understood reaching that goal would mean they share the beta-version of the game with all the backers.



  

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Post Posted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:33 pm 
 

benjoshua wrote in Kickstarter projects:
JasonZavoda wrote in Kickstarter projects:Go through the comment thread on the bones kickstarter and you will find dozens of backers begging for updates. Sure they finally took their finger out of their ass, but they went silent for weeks at a time while backers were getting more and more upset everyday. Of course the Reaper fan-boy patrol was in full voice saying they didn't need updates and pulling their hair out in fear that Reaper might get mad and not do another kickstarter and generally insulting anyone who disagreed with them.

Reaper would say they couldn't post because they were so busy getting everything ready, then a month and half later we are told they are late because they have nothing to ship, pissing off more backers because of the double-talk and outright lies about the shipping delays. If they had nothing to ship why are they telling us they can't take 5 minutes to post a comment? Then you get posts on facebook and the reaper forums with bits and pieces of information. No, Reaper is an example of a company that needs someone to handle their PR and communications.


I don't know.  I know I got plenty of information in a timely manner.  I don't disagree that there were people who were unhappy, but that's usually true in any pool of people.  And it's also possible that no matter what Reaper said, they were still going to be dissatisfied.  Some people are just like that.  And sometimes it's better to just not feed the trolls; advice I don't take for myself often enough.  The bottom line for me is that I was very pleased with the Reaper Kickstarter in every way.  8)


Well, I'm not trying to troll anybody, but I followed the Reaper kickstarter day by day and that line of bullshit from the Reaper fanboys about the people being upset just not being satisfied with anything certainly didn't help Reaper any as a business. Last thing you want is your rabid supporters going out of their way to insult your new customer base, and that is exactly what Reaper let happen. They let a bunch of fanboys be their unofficial representatives while they refused to post any comments of their own, at least on the kickstarter forum which is where their new customers were all going to check on the status of the kickstarter order.

I think in the long run Reaper will come out ahead, but they threw away a great deal of what every business wants, more customers.


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Post Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:28 am 
 

Fellow Acaeum members,

The KS thread has been quite a whirlwind these past few weeks, with many of you providing your experiences and feelings about this business channel and what it means for the industry.  I've enjoyed reading through them all, especially since I was planning to release my game system via Kickstarter.  Although slightly hesitant, I feel I'm in a better position to launch the KS with a few key principles:

1.  All the content and preliminary art has been completed before launching the KS project.
2.  The KS project will have a base product, and will not contain crappy add-ons like mugs, t-shirts, etc. (I would have never done that anyway)
3.  Level goals will be for additional printed content, *also* completed before project launch.

The base project will be for a printed, 96 page soft-cover All-in-One guide containing several core books, previously released electronically.  It will also contain 2 new books (again, already written and edited), the Terra Minor world guide and Res Magicus, the first magical guide.

Upgrades include retail options (discounted for multiple copies), a hard-cover option, and a few adventure mods (already written, maps completed).

The main risk is that I may require a few more illustrations once I've completed the book aggregation - I would need my illustrator to move quickly to complete the work before the end of project.

Questions for the community:  Is this a project you would back?  Does the fact that everything is already written make a difference to you as a potential backer?  Is hard-cover preferred over soft-cover?

Your thoughts and views on this matter are important to me, please post them!

Thanks,

Thom (throwi)

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Post Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:49 am 
 

throwi wrote in Kickstarter projects:Fellow Acaeum members,

The KS thread has been quite a whirlwind these past few weeks, with many of you providing your experiences and feelings about this business channel and what it means for the industry.  I've enjoyed reading through them all, especially since I was planning to release my game system via Kickstarter.  Although slightly hesitant, I feel I'm in a better position to launch the KS with a few key principles:

1.  All the content and preliminary art has been completed before launching the KS project.
2.  The KS project will have a base product, and will not contain crappy add-ons like mugs, t-shirts, etc. (I would have never done that anyway)
3.  Level goals will be for additional printed content, *also* completed before project launch.

The base project will be for a printed, 96 page soft-cover All-in-One guide containing several core books, previously released electronically.  It will also contain 2 new books (again, already written and edited), the Terra Minor world guide and Res Magicus, the first magical guide.

Upgrades include retail options (discounted for multiple copies), a hard-cover option, and a few adventure mods (already written, maps completed).

The main risk is that I may require a few more illustrations once I've completed the book aggregation - I would need my illustrator to move quickly to complete the work before the end of project.

Questions for the community:  Is this a project you would back?  Does the fact that everything is already written make a difference to you as a potential backer?  Is hard-cover preferred over soft-cover?

Your thoughts and views on this matter are important to me, please post them!

Thanks,

Thom (throwi)


Thom, it sounds like you have everything taken care of you need.  A good start coming out of the gate!  I would look at successful small kickstarters like Jeff Talanian's AS&SH as a definite starting point.  Also, if you haven't talked to Zach Glazer yet, I would, he just got through funding his and is deeply involved in getting everything done, he may be able to guide you around some of the minefields (and he's a great guy to talk to anyway).  

For myself, the fact everything is written would be a definite plus.

Mike B.


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Post Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:43 pm 
 

Mike,

Thanks for the input.  Appreciated.

I think I'm also going to cap the print run too, each will be numbered and signed.  Not sure on the count yet but likely in the neighborhood of 100-200 tops.

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Post Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:46 pm 
 

throwi wrote in Kickstarter projects:-snip-

Your thoughts and views on this matter are important to me, please post them!

Thanks,

Thom (throwi)


As somebody who's running their own Kickstarter, I highly recommend promoting it heavily at least a couple of months before you start the Kickstarter.

  
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