Kickstarter projects
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Post Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:52 am 
 

beasterbrook wrote in Kickstarter projects:
throwi wrote in Kickstarter projects:I've actually developed two separate Kickstarters for my own products (Throwigames.com) but each time I break down the base and rewards costs, it turns out to be a negative ROI.  I've toyed with the idea of taking a loss to get the products more exposure, but the magnitude of the loss becomes too great if more than a few hundred sign up
~throwi


You can do this, all you have to do is limit the rewards..

[ throwi - Even built in rewards to the product itself (glossy pages, hardcover, additional illustrations, color inside, etc.) gets dicey.  Most people think that the more you sell, the more you make.  That is not always the case!  One of the CBAs I developed basically demonstrated that as long as only 50 people signed up, I'd be okay but after that the profit margin dropped off to a point where break-even was barely a possibility.

Perhaps the secret is to just provide the basic item with only a few extra rewards that are one time costs only (illustrations, for example).  I still want to put out my Guidelines in a single hardcover but I'm afraid that it'll cost me too much to do.  More to think about I suppose. ]

Badmike wrote in Kickstarter projects:
You are a smart man, then.  I think too many of these guys enter the KS arena without having any idea that the MORE popular an idea is, the more money they stand to LOSE should they actually complete the project.  Plus, too many KS programs start with a cool idea and nothing more, and when the money starts rolling in, the amount of work being called for goes way behind the expectations or abilities of the person who usually has no business skills at all.

Mike B.


Agreeded.. but there are a couple of reason people can lose money on kickstarters.. 1) intentional- this is going into a product not expecting to make any money or even a loss (like throwi's potention kickstarters above). Obviously the risk can be magnified...  2) unintentional- this seems to be the case with kickstarters.. have no idea on final costs, costs blow out they when they become too sussessful.. THEY HAVE TOO MANY ADD-ONS! and this compounds things as well.. while I like the "idea" of add-ons I 'm not a fan.. the whole idea is to help publish your game, once you make funding people start doing patches, dice, minis, shirts etc etc.. there seems to be an opinion you have to give more and get more and more for more people to jump on board.. I think things should be kept nice and simple (some do)..

of couse loosing money now is short term, generally you have a product you can sell the pdf/ sell hardcopies (lulu) and such with little to nil more $$, so you can start making $$ out of the finished product (hopefully)

Brette:)


I avoided the crazy rewards of shirts, mugs, patches, etc. as, like you said, it moves the KS away from the core idea:  the RPG item itself.  Even with the rewards built in to the product, there seems to be a point of diminishing returns.  It's hard to find that bullseye area of the KS - the combination of product, rewards, backers and cost.  My spreadsheet CBAs were so complicated in design when trying to find those exact costs/profits.  I just couldn't quite get the numbers the right way without it being too expensive for the backers.

~throwi

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Post Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:00 pm 
 

The problem is that everyone seems to want a HUGE pledge total.

The average person should spend some real time doing math, figuring out all the costs, what they need to bring in to make it work, and then get a Kickstarter going.  If there are to be any sort of stretch goals, then those should be planned before launch as well, so all those costs can be factored in.

If you have a relatively modest goal, let's say $10k, and you raise $12k, then congratulations, you can do your project and hopefully get people what they wanted in a timely manner.  If instead you raise $100k, you might still be able to achieve the same fulfillment, but only if you're scaling just the number of packages you need to send out.  If you have to account for all sorts other manufacturing or dealing with other creators, something is something is almost certainly going to slip.

Personally, I'd rather have a single quality item instead of thirty different stretch goals and add-ons.  It's confusing and can't possibly be kept track of easily (for creators and pledgers).

Another thought just occurred to me.  I wonder if anyone is purposefully using the stretch goals to extend their timelines?  That is, setting a delivery date of four months, then because of all the extras, moving the completion date to ten months instead... which is how much time was actually needed in the first place.  There doesn't seem to be that much penalty for being late anyway, but this could change the perception, so it seems more like something is on time.


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Post Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:41 pm 
 

TheHistorian wrote in Kickstarter projects:
Personally, I'd rather have a single quality item instead of thirty different stretch goals and add-ons.  It's confusing and can't possibly be kept track of easily (for creators and pledgers).

Another thought just occurred to me.  I wonder if anyone is purposefully using the stretch goals to extend their timelines?  That is, setting a delivery date of four months, then because of all the extras, moving the completion date to ten months instead... which is how much time was actually needed in the first place.  There doesn't seem to be that much penalty for being late anyway, but this could change the perception, so it seems more like something is on time.


agree and agree..

Everyone wants to be successful, and why not be very successful? I don't think the stretch goals are used in that way, I suppose some are.. I think they just don't realise how long things take.. the writing, the playtesting (hopefully), the editing, layout, artists etc..  there is really no penalty for being late, none for not delivering as well (sure kickstarter has been promoting that they have in their terms that the person MUST complete the project etc, but thats just crap, trying to give the people that pledge a fulse sense of "security" of their money thats all).. just going through the kickstarters I have been very surprised that there are very few people angry or even annoyed about a project being late (at least on the comments and the kickstarter udates pages.. there own web site might be a different story?) and in fact a lot of people are quiet encouraging to the creators even when a long time late..

Brette:)


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Post Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:01 pm 
 

As long as there are reasonable updates, I don't usually worry about lateness.


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Post Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:09 pm 
 

I have been completely happy with KS projects that I backed from established companies: Reaper, Troll Lord, Frog God.

I have only been disappointed with those I backed from non-established companies.  Issues with delays, quality, and, frankly I better just call it buyer's remorse... I really don't need rpg t-shirts, mugs, etc., though I have only myself to blame for responding to hyped reward levels.

I think now it would take a pretty special opportunity to get me on board another one.


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Post Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:23 am 
 

Thunderdave! wrote in Kickstarter projects:I really don't need rpg t-shirts, mugs, etc.


That's for damn sure.  Gaming content?  I'm interested.  Schwag?  Not so much.


Areas of interest/knowledge: Harn, WFRP, Ars Magica, anything BRP based such as CoC, Runequest, Pendragon and all their related games

  

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Post Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:13 am 
 

TheHistorian wrote in Kickstarter projects:
Thunderdave! wrote in Kickstarter projects:I really don't need rpg t-shirts, mugs, etc.


That's for damn sure.  Gaming content?  I'm interested.  Schwag?  Not so much.


Especially when we requested a medium T-shirt and they sent XXL.

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Post Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:45 pm 
 

Mars wrote in Kickstarter projects:
TheHistorian wrote in Kickstarter projects:
That's for damn sure.  Gaming content?  I'm interested.  Schwag?  Not so much.


Especially when we requested a medium T-shirt and they sent XXL.


Didn't you know that an XXL was a "gamer medium"?   :)


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Post Posted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:05 pm 
 

IO beat me to it, XXL is a tightie on this hamburger-fed gamer body....

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Post Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:41 pm 
 

Dwarven Forge's Game Tiles: Revolutionary Miniature Terrain by Dwarven Forge — Kickstarter

No, I am not a big miniatures guy, but I jumped on this one a few weeks ago.  I think it is a fantastic deal.


And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

New modules for your Old School game http://pacesettergames.com/

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Post Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:35 pm 
 

bbarsh wrote in Kickstarter projects:Dwarven Forge's Game Tiles: Revolutionary Miniature Terrain by Dwarven Forge — Kickstarter

No, I am not a big miniatures guy, but I jumped on this one a few weeks ago.  I think it is a fantastic deal.


I am a big miniatures guy, this is a good deal, and I am still not biting.  If you are into the Dwarven Forge type stuff, I can certainly understand why; it looks cool as all get out.  The main reason most of us never touched the stuff is that, either we weren't into miniatures or it was too expensive.  But now, even though I have a great miniatures collection and could easy drop $120.00 to participate, I just don't think I am going for it.  Feel free to argue your point of view.  Maybe I'm crazy.

There are three main reasons I not jumping in.  First, and most important, these setups hurt the mystery of most adventures.  I've seen DM's hide the un-explored parts of the dungeon under a sheet, but players still have a pretty good idea of the extent of the dungeon.  Or, if the DM doesn't set things up ahead of time, then there's a mad scramble by the DM to layout some or all of the next room.  Secret doors are much less secret.  Asking players to map their progress means that better parties do a better job of mapping and are more successful in their goals.  Of course, there are some places where players have advance knowledge of the layout but not the occupants.  This stuff works great for that situation.  Second, these things appear difficult to transport to another location.  And third, the stuff takes up a fair amount of storage space even if you only use it at your own house.

Maybe there are other reasons pro and con, but I just don't think I'm in..... :?


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Post Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:42 pm 
 

benjoshua wrote in Kickstarter projects:  Feel free to argue your point of view.  Maybe I'm crazy:?


Yes, yes you are... :D

I see your points but raise the "this shit is just too cool" arguement. From what I see, you get tons of stuff for the dollar. I just see me using them for some hack and slash stuff. Now I need to go and buy some miniatures! Or I can just stock it with the demons and devils from the Center Stage KS!


And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

New modules for your Old School game http://pacesettergames.com/

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Post Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:29 pm 
 

Along the same lines as the DF KS, check out Secret Weapon's terrain (more suited for WH40K, etc, but still pretty damn cool!) :

Tablescapes - by Secret Weapon Miniatures by Secret Weapon — Kickstarter


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Post Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:22 am 
 

bbarsh wrote in Kickstarter projects:
benjoshua wrote in Kickstarter projects:  Feel free to argue your point of view.  Maybe I'm crazy:?


Yes, yes you are... :D

I see your points but raise the "this shit is just too cool" arguement. From what I see, you get tons of stuff for the dollar. I just see me using them for some hack and slash stuff. Now I need to go and buy some miniatures! Or I can just stock it with the demons and devils from the Center Stage KS!



I hear you, I was on the fence, but decided to finally bite!  I have thousands of minis and am looking forward to having some terrain to put them in and this was the best bang for the buck.  I have only bought sparingly from Dwarven Forge before, but this was too good to pass up!

  

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Post Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 7:05 pm 
 

mrmanowar wrote in Kickstarter projects:
bbarsh wrote in Kickstarter projects:
Yes, yes you are... :D

I see your points but raise the "this shit is just too cool" arguement. From what I see, you get tons of stuff for the dollar. I just see me using them for some hack and slash stuff. Now I need to go and buy some miniatures! Or I can just stock it with the demons and devils from the Center Stage KS!



I hear you, I was on the fence, but decided to finally bite!  I have thousands of minis and am looking forward to having some terrain to put them in and this was the best bang for the buck.  I have only bought sparingly from Dwarven Forge before, but this was too good to pass up!


I just moved up to the $260 level. With the huge amount of free bonus stuff for each set - you get the bonus goals for each set - I could not resist. So I get five sets plus five sets of the bonus stuff which is a ton of product.


And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

New modules for your Old School game http://pacesettergames.com/

Everything Pacesetter at http://pacesettergames.blog.com/

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Post Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 12:16 pm 
 

I'd be in except for international postage. :(

  

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Post Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 3:26 pm 
 

Sardan wrote in Kickstarter projects:I'd be in except for international postage. :(


Yes, international postage for just a few books has gone through the roof. Heavy stuff like this project is probably insane. On average, anything weighing just a few pounds has doubled.


And I could've bought these damn modules off the 1$ rack!!!

New modules for your Old School game http://pacesettergames.com/

Everything Pacesetter at http://pacesettergames.blog.com/

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Post Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 7:07 pm 
 

How about everyone jump on this one:

RPGs are Evil - Dark Dungeons: The Movie! by JR Ralls — Kickstarter

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