Super Rare-to-be adventure...
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Post Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:42 am 
 

Thanks KoP, I just want to make it clear that I'm not trying to create an agenda against Thork. Initially I was trying to get a handle on why this item was being bid up over $100. Gnat gave a good response to that.

Now that Thork appears to be getting angsty about members not purchasing his work immediately, I find that distasteful, especially as he just made 125 bucks!

With regards PMs, I also took offence at Thork implying in his unrequested PM to me, that he was implying that I am outside of his intellectual circle. Something for which he kind of backhandedly apologised.

I feel that Thork is creating himself a sense of self-importance and intellectual greatness.
I don't particularly care for such acts, so I have withdrawn my request for a purchase of his other Ltd works and won't be buying further from lulu of his work.


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:01 am 
 

Kingofpain89 wrote:I dont know about most people here but when it comes to ordering from Lulu I like to get the most bang for my buck.  I usually try and buy several items at the same time and wait for a decent coupon code to pop up before pulling the trigger on a purchase.


Exactly.  I will 100% definitely purchase a copy.  But I have to find a few things to make the shipping costs worthwhile.  If your intent is for this to be available for only a set period of time, just let us know that.


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:18 am 
 

And as THeHistorian & KoP have said, purchasing is based on what's financially best and as lulu tend to do discounts on a monthly basis, I think a bit of patience would be professional on Thorks part.

Other sellers, such as PGS, BHP etc run items, are happy to sell what sells and then appreciate and look after their customer base.


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:46 am 
 

For those members that want/ed a 2nd cover copy, the link I provided will be good for as long as you want it. There is no "time limit" as far as I'm concerned. Lulu does indeed run coupon discounts that are not always available, and I expect (like myself) that many will like to bundle things and get a bigger discount.

If I could just ask everyone one thing it would be this: please, let's be civil to each other. We don't need to stink up someone else's threads with our own issues just because we don't support or like what they are doing/saying. I see too much of that at other forums and that's why I like being a member here--because, until now, I haven't seen that kind of behavior.

I'd rather not have to go into explaining my actions Suffice it to say, that everyone has a "bad day" once in a while. I've been having a few, lately, and will probably have another one or two until I get some results back from the doctor. Just bare with me if you can.

That said, I think we should stop trying to be amateur analysts with all this rudeness, don't you?


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:01 pm 
 

I haven't been rude, but I agree that this conversation has run its course.

I hope that you continue to prublish decent quality products, as those I have are good.


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:04 pm 
 

ashmire13 wrote:Other sellers, such as PGS, BHP etc run items, are happy to sell what sells and then appreciate and look after their customer base.


Yeah, I too admire Pace Games Setter products and service provided to customers. :lol:

ashmire13 wrote:.... I haven't been rude.....

PDT_Armataz_01_05  :!:
Good to know that....


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:29 pm 
 

Unfortunately text does not carry tone of voice behind it Gnat.

My posts where we discussed the rarity / quality basis of this product had no content where I am rude. If you feel otherwise, that's a shame because it is very rare that I get involved in confrontational discussions here, after being a member for many years.

If anything, Thorks PM to me may be construed as rude.

I will never consider myself a collector, certainly not in comparison to anyone here, but I am an enthusiast and I enjoy the forum, I enjoy the conversations here and I am still learning about the TSR products.

Only with two/three members have I ever felt that I wanted to comment because I was irked, mostly those who came here from T&T claiming that they were turning things around. And from the posts that I have been involved in along those threads, I haven't been alone in expressing my concerns.

Whilst I am in a minority here in regards Thorks product and (my interpretation of) his behaviour, I initially was only trying to find out what the thoughts were in regards this adventures collectibility.


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:43 pm 
 

Gordon Bennett Gnat.

You got a crush on Thork or summat?

Just leave it.

Cheers,
KAL


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:10 pm 
 

Gnat the Beggar wrote:
ashmire13 wrote:Other sellers, such as PGS, BHP etc run items, are happy to sell what sells and then appreciate and look after their customer base.


Yeah, I too admire Pace Games Setter products and service provided to customers. :lol:

ashmire13 wrote:.... I haven't been rude.....

PDT_Armataz_01_05  :!:
Good to know that....


I wish I'd quoted your original post now Gnat, asking me to review my posts in a few days. As someone who seems keen on being critical of my view, you do post rather quickly at times (& have for years) only to edit your posts soon after. I have not edited my posts beyond spelling or adding a comment, as I feel my content can stand on its on, but if not then I'd apologise.

To ask me to review my posts in a few days to see if I consider myself rude, only to delete that your post is rather ironic, don't you think? Lol :)


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:25 pm 
 

At least he didnt say anything bad about KNG (Knight Noble Games).  :roll:


You don't like your job, you don't strike. You go in every day and do it really half-assed. That's the American way. - Homer Simpson

  


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:43 pm 
 

Yet.... :wink:


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:33 pm 
 

Just over 2 days since this "auction" ended now so whats the verdict on this?

Service to old-school gamers everywhere

or

cynical money-grabbing scheme

or, perhaps somewhere in the middle, or even none of the above.

None of us (well, only one of us) will ever know the real answer to this but safe to say this is a fabulous example of how to get your POD product out there - a masterpiece of marketing - selling an $8 Lulu item for $125 - you can't argue with that.

Small press from back in the day is one thing - I can fully understand why collectors get excited with limited run/poor print quality stuff from the late 70's but this sort of thing can never compare - it simply does not have the resonance or the sheer history of something that is 30+ years old - and in my opinion never will have

I was cynical from the start I'm afraid - I'm only grateful that I don't have a pathological desire to collect everything. (If I were REALLY cynical I could say that bringing this item to these forums was like shooting fish in a barrel anyway :roll: )

And like Ash I don't think that Thork has really covered himself in glory here, but then nobody ever really does in this kind of exchange. (having read the thread through two or three times, I think that the tone used in a couple of posts could be misconstrued (deliberately or otherwise), after all sarcasm and irony do not translate well to the internet :D )

Carl


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:15 pm 
 

gyg wrote:Just over 2 days since this "auction" ended now so whats the verdict on this?

Service to old-school gamers everywhere

or

cynical money-grabbing scheme

or, perhaps somewhere in the middle, or even none of the above.

None of us (well, only one of us) will ever know the real answer to this but safe to say this is a fabulous example of how to get your POD product out there - a masterpiece of marketing - selling an $8 Lulu item for $125 - you can't argue with that.

Small press from back in the day is one thing - I can fully understand why collectors get excited with limited run/poor print quality stuff from the late 70's but this sort of thing can never compare - it simply does not have the resonance or the sheer history of something that is 30+ years old - and in my opinion never will have

I was cynical from the start I'm afraid - I'm only grateful that I don't have a pathological desire to collect everything. (If I were REALLY cynical I could say that bringing this item to these forums was like shooting fish in a barrel anyway :roll: )

And like Ash I don't think that Thork has really covered himself in glory here, but then nobody ever really does in this kind of exchange. (having read the thread through two or three times, I think that the tone used in a couple of posts could be misconstrued (deliberately or otherwise), after all sarcasm and irony do not translate well to the internet :D )

Carl


Well, if you've read the thread 2-3 times, you should know who won the auction. It's no U.S. state secret, its in the thread.
My greatest regret is the thread title. If I had said, "Hey! anyone want to bid on a 1-of-a-kind item I wrote?" I doubt all this fuss would have resulted.
As it is, I worded it poorly. Members jumped at me from left and right pummeling me with their opinion of my inpropriety. Supports knew what I was talking about, and stepped in.
So rather than redo the thread title, and with so many members asking for a copy, I went back to work and spent additional time and effort creating a 2nd cover copy that ANY member could purchase if he/she wanted. I posted a link that ONLY ACAEUM members have access to, and provided reasonably literate information informing everyone that anyone wanting a copy could order it directly from Lulu, and would thus recieve it shrinked and boxed and mailed directly to them instead of having to go through me.
Regarding my desire to work with the members, one should examine the Swamp Girl thread, where I switched #s around when informed, removed those that decided they wanted out. As to Cave of the Crystal Skull,  I even made special considerations to a few and sent them a PDF.
Every step of this project I have tried to ensure that clarity prevailed in my posting.
Sometimes, I fell a bit short. I'm only human.
And what has resulted is  members being rude, calling me names, throwing insults, and questioning my motives to the point of bordering on reputation-assassination. Their behavior, it appears, is okay, and acceptable to the forum?
If I am overstating anything, I will gladly go back and review the thread with anyone and make corrections where applicable.
So, does that seem to sum it up? Am I leaving anything out? Does anyone want to accuse me of plagirism while we're at it?


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Last edited by Thork N Hammer on Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  

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Post Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:52 pm 
 

Thork N Hammer wrote:
gyg wrote:Just over 2 days since this "auction" ended now so whats the verdict on this?

Service to old-school gamers everywhere

or

cynical money-grabbing scheme

or, perhaps somewhere in the middle, or even none of the above.



Well, if you've read the thread 2-3 times, you should know who won the auction. It's no U.S. state secret, its in the thread.



Of course I realise that - My question was regarding the point I raised at the beginning of the post, something only you can answer, but many will have an opinion on.


(edited for poor editing!)


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:11 pm 
 

gyg wrote:Small press from back in the day is one thing - I can fully understand why collectors get excited with limited run/poor print quality stuff from the late 70's but this sort of thing can never compare - it simply does not have the resonance or the sheer history of something that is 30+ years old - and in my opinion never will have

I'm definitely on the other side of the fence on this opinion.  Most of the small press stuff I've picked up from the "golden age" of role-playing is absolute garbage with a few exceptions.  Most of the stuff I've picked up recently from small press publishers is of very good quality and immensely useful.  Do I expect The Sea Maidens of San Gropia selling for $100 in 30 years?  Probably not, but that has nothing to do with its collectability and more to do with what I believe the state of RPG collecting will be like in 30 years.  And if I am wrong, who is to say the original version of McKinney's Carcosa wont be selling for a couple hundred bucks in 30 years?

gyg wrote:And like Ash I don't think that Thork has really covered himself in glory here, but then nobody ever really does in this kind of exchange.

I don't believe Thork's intention was ever just a simple money grab.  I also dont believe he had any idea that this one-off would go for $125 either.  I was certainly shocked.  Although I wasnt when the French version and the unique copy of G4 he donated went for over $100 at the NTRPG auction mainly because the money goes to fund the convention and to Doug's charity.  And its my opinion that in the future Thork, you might want to create these one-off items like this for such special occasions like charity auctions.  It at least will keep your name from being dragged through the mud.


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:40 pm 
 

Kingofpain89 wrote:I'm definitely on the other side of the fence on this opinion.  Most of the small press stuff I've picked up from the "golden age" of role-playing is absolute garbage with a few exceptions.  Most of the stuff I've picked up recently from small press publishers is of very good quality and immensely useful.



I don't disagree with this - a lot of the old stuff has a lot to be desired quality wise.
It's simply the weight of history on such items that I feel makes them desirable - I can't imagine stroking a 2012 rpg booklet and muttering "preciousssss" under my breath, which I'm sure I've done with some old stuff that has been through my hands over the years 8O.



(And we all know desirability/quality/value have no correlation with each other at all when looking at the RPG field, I'm sure we could all give an example of an expensive turd!!



(edited - grammar!)


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Post Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:44 am 
 

Hey Rob, just a couple things, and since you already know me, hopefully it goes without stating that this is meant as friendly advice, not harsh criticism...

Thork N Hammer wrote:I posted a link that ONLY ACAEUM members have access to

Anybody with a web browser can read the Acaeum forums; you don't need an account to read the threads. At least one other site has already linked to this thread, and various "non-members" are aware of (and can purchase) the module.

And what has resulted is ... questioning my motives to the point of bordering on reputation-assassination.

Chalk it up as a learning experience.

Collectors love collecting. If you release a product that aligns with someone's collecting interest, and you make it appropriately accessible to purchase, that person will purchase it and be happy/satisfied. Some collectors love collecting harder-to-acquire items. You can increase some (but not all) peoples' enjoyment by artificially restricting the availability of the product. Ditto by making sets of related items.

But there's a tipping point.

If you go too far in terms of artificially restricting the availability, it can cause very strong negative feelings. It potentially comes across as an attempt to take advantage of folks. e.g., buy module #1 for a reasonable price, then buy #2 through #9 for reasonable prices, and then suddenly the only way to complete the collection with #10 is to pay big bucks.

I don't think you intended to take advantage of anybody. I just think your (youthful !) exuberance for doing another module happened to combine with you noticing Acaeum collectors' obvious exuberance for buying your other limited offerings, and you tried to take it to the next level, as it were. After all, they seemed thrilled to have the chance to buy a limited run module, and their enthusiasm sometimes seems to increase when items are rarer.

But then you inadvertently reached that tipping point and found out the hard way that enjoyment doesn't always increase with rarity.

The thing is, your customers won't know that you're still learning this "selling to collectors" business unless you tell them as much. If you don't tell them, they'll assume you already know what you're doing (you have a lulu store and advertise on a variety of venues, after all), and thus view your actions being intentionally exploitive.

It would go a long way to let the folks here know that the original pitch was born from naive exuberance. I know you implied it in some of your responses, but a clearer response would go a long way toward easing any ill-will.


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Post Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:23 am 
 

What he said ^^^^

Cheers,
KAL


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