Super Rare-to-be adventure...
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Post Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:43 pm 
 

Yet.... :wink:


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:33 pm 
 

Just over 2 days since this "auction" ended now so whats the verdict on this?

Service to old-school gamers everywhere

or

cynical money-grabbing scheme

or, perhaps somewhere in the middle, or even none of the above.

None of us (well, only one of us) will ever know the real answer to this but safe to say this is a fabulous example of how to get your POD product out there - a masterpiece of marketing - selling an $8 Lulu item for $125 - you can't argue with that.

Small press from back in the day is one thing - I can fully understand why collectors get excited with limited run/poor print quality stuff from the late 70's but this sort of thing can never compare - it simply does not have the resonance or the sheer history of something that is 30+ years old - and in my opinion never will have

I was cynical from the start I'm afraid - I'm only grateful that I don't have a pathological desire to collect everything. (If I were REALLY cynical I could say that bringing this item to these forums was like shooting fish in a barrel anyway :roll: )

And like Ash I don't think that Thork has really covered himself in glory here, but then nobody ever really does in this kind of exchange. (having read the thread through two or three times, I think that the tone used in a couple of posts could be misconstrued (deliberately or otherwise), after all sarcasm and irony do not translate well to the internet :D )

Carl


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:15 pm 
 

gyg wrote:Just over 2 days since this "auction" ended now so whats the verdict on this?

Service to old-school gamers everywhere

or

cynical money-grabbing scheme

or, perhaps somewhere in the middle, or even none of the above.

None of us (well, only one of us) will ever know the real answer to this but safe to say this is a fabulous example of how to get your POD product out there - a masterpiece of marketing - selling an $8 Lulu item for $125 - you can't argue with that.

Small press from back in the day is one thing - I can fully understand why collectors get excited with limited run/poor print quality stuff from the late 70's but this sort of thing can never compare - it simply does not have the resonance or the sheer history of something that is 30+ years old - and in my opinion never will have

I was cynical from the start I'm afraid - I'm only grateful that I don't have a pathological desire to collect everything. (If I were REALLY cynical I could say that bringing this item to these forums was like shooting fish in a barrel anyway :roll: )

And like Ash I don't think that Thork has really covered himself in glory here, but then nobody ever really does in this kind of exchange. (having read the thread through two or three times, I think that the tone used in a couple of posts could be misconstrued (deliberately or otherwise), after all sarcasm and irony do not translate well to the internet :D )

Carl


Well, if you've read the thread 2-3 times, you should know who won the auction. It's no U.S. state secret, its in the thread.
My greatest regret is the thread title. If I had said, "Hey! anyone want to bid on a 1-of-a-kind item I wrote?" I doubt all this fuss would have resulted.
As it is, I worded it poorly. Members jumped at me from left and right pummeling me with their opinion of my inpropriety. Supports knew what I was talking about, and stepped in.
So rather than redo the thread title, and with so many members asking for a copy, I went back to work and spent additional time and effort creating a 2nd cover copy that ANY member could purchase if he/she wanted. I posted a link that ONLY ACAEUM members have access to, and provided reasonably literate information informing everyone that anyone wanting a copy could order it directly from Lulu, and would thus recieve it shrinked and boxed and mailed directly to them instead of having to go through me.
Regarding my desire to work with the members, one should examine the Swamp Girl thread, where I switched #s around when informed, removed those that decided they wanted out. As to Cave of the Crystal Skull,  I even made special considerations to a few and sent them a PDF.
Every step of this project I have tried to ensure that clarity prevailed in my posting.
Sometimes, I fell a bit short. I'm only human.
And what has resulted is  members being rude, calling me names, throwing insults, and questioning my motives to the point of bordering on reputation-assassination. Their behavior, it appears, is okay, and acceptable to the forum?
If I am overstating anything, I will gladly go back and review the thread with anyone and make corrections where applicable.
So, does that seem to sum it up? Am I leaving anything out? Does anyone want to accuse me of plagirism while we're at it?


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Last edited by Thork N Hammer on Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  

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Post Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:52 pm 
 

Thork N Hammer wrote:
gyg wrote:Just over 2 days since this "auction" ended now so whats the verdict on this?

Service to old-school gamers everywhere

or

cynical money-grabbing scheme

or, perhaps somewhere in the middle, or even none of the above.



Well, if you've read the thread 2-3 times, you should know who won the auction. It's no U.S. state secret, its in the thread.



Of course I realise that - My question was regarding the point I raised at the beginning of the post, something only you can answer, but many will have an opinion on.


(edited for poor editing!)


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:11 pm 
 

gyg wrote:Small press from back in the day is one thing - I can fully understand why collectors get excited with limited run/poor print quality stuff from the late 70's but this sort of thing can never compare - it simply does not have the resonance or the sheer history of something that is 30+ years old - and in my opinion never will have

I'm definitely on the other side of the fence on this opinion.  Most of the small press stuff I've picked up from the "golden age" of role-playing is absolute garbage with a few exceptions.  Most of the stuff I've picked up recently from small press publishers is of very good quality and immensely useful.  Do I expect The Sea Maidens of San Gropia selling for $100 in 30 years?  Probably not, but that has nothing to do with its collectability and more to do with what I believe the state of RPG collecting will be like in 30 years.  And if I am wrong, who is to say the original version of McKinney's Carcosa wont be selling for a couple hundred bucks in 30 years?

gyg wrote:And like Ash I don't think that Thork has really covered himself in glory here, but then nobody ever really does in this kind of exchange.

I don't believe Thork's intention was ever just a simple money grab.  I also dont believe he had any idea that this one-off would go for $125 either.  I was certainly shocked.  Although I wasnt when the French version and the unique copy of G4 he donated went for over $100 at the NTRPG auction mainly because the money goes to fund the convention and to Doug's charity.  And its my opinion that in the future Thork, you might want to create these one-off items like this for such special occasions like charity auctions.  It at least will keep your name from being dragged through the mud.


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Post Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:40 pm 
 

Kingofpain89 wrote:I'm definitely on the other side of the fence on this opinion.  Most of the small press stuff I've picked up from the "golden age" of role-playing is absolute garbage with a few exceptions.  Most of the stuff I've picked up recently from small press publishers is of very good quality and immensely useful.



I don't disagree with this - a lot of the old stuff has a lot to be desired quality wise.
It's simply the weight of history on such items that I feel makes them desirable - I can't imagine stroking a 2012 rpg booklet and muttering "preciousssss" under my breath, which I'm sure I've done with some old stuff that has been through my hands over the years 8O.



(And we all know desirability/quality/value have no correlation with each other at all when looking at the RPG field, I'm sure we could all give an example of an expensive turd!!



(edited - grammar!)


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Post Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:44 am 
 

Hey Rob, just a couple things, and since you already know me, hopefully it goes without stating that this is meant as friendly advice, not harsh criticism...

Thork N Hammer wrote:I posted a link that ONLY ACAEUM members have access to

Anybody with a web browser can read the Acaeum forums; you don't need an account to read the threads. At least one other site has already linked to this thread, and various "non-members" are aware of (and can purchase) the module.

And what has resulted is ... questioning my motives to the point of bordering on reputation-assassination.

Chalk it up as a learning experience.

Collectors love collecting. If you release a product that aligns with someone's collecting interest, and you make it appropriately accessible to purchase, that person will purchase it and be happy/satisfied. Some collectors love collecting harder-to-acquire items. You can increase some (but not all) peoples' enjoyment by artificially restricting the availability of the product. Ditto by making sets of related items.

But there's a tipping point.

If you go too far in terms of artificially restricting the availability, it can cause very strong negative feelings. It potentially comes across as an attempt to take advantage of folks. e.g., buy module #1 for a reasonable price, then buy #2 through #9 for reasonable prices, and then suddenly the only way to complete the collection with #10 is to pay big bucks.

I don't think you intended to take advantage of anybody. I just think your (youthful !) exuberance for doing another module happened to combine with you noticing Acaeum collectors' obvious exuberance for buying your other limited offerings, and you tried to take it to the next level, as it were. After all, they seemed thrilled to have the chance to buy a limited run module, and their enthusiasm sometimes seems to increase when items are rarer.

But then you inadvertently reached that tipping point and found out the hard way that enjoyment doesn't always increase with rarity.

The thing is, your customers won't know that you're still learning this "selling to collectors" business unless you tell them as much. If you don't tell them, they'll assume you already know what you're doing (you have a lulu store and advertise on a variety of venues, after all), and thus view your actions being intentionally exploitive.

It would go a long way to let the folks here know that the original pitch was born from naive exuberance. I know you implied it in some of your responses, but a clearer response would go a long way toward easing any ill-will.


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Post Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 4:23 am 
 

What he said ^^^^

Cheers,
KAL


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Post Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:13 am 
 

Kingofpain89 wrote:  I don't believe Thork's intention was ever just a simple money grab.  I also dont believe he had any idea that this one-off would go for $125 either.  I was certainly shocked.  Although I wasnt when the French version and the unique copy of G4 he donated went for over $100 at the NTRPG auction mainly because the money goes to fund the convention and to Doug's charity.  And its my opinion that in the future Thork, you might want to create these one-off items like this for such special occasions like charity auctions.  It at least will keep your name from being dragged through the mud.


I agree with all of the stuff there...
If you do future one-offs, perhaps donate that item to a convention for auction, or as an auction here (or even on e-Bay) with the proceeds to be donated to some worthy cause...

Only a truly despicable person would bash you for donating something like this to a worthy cause.... no matter how much it sold for.

For now, I would probably take that fortune of $125 you just got for this one-off and buy a new home.....  :roll:  :wink:  :lol:


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Post Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:37 am 
 

I wouldn't class myself as despicable Gnat. Nor do I consider it a huge money grabber in the grand scheme of thing, because Thork isn't going to buy a new house on that much...

So feel free to carry on and have a little dig at anyone who doesn't have the same view as you eh....


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Post Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:38 am 
 

Gnat the Beggar wrote:
Kingofpain89 wrote:  I don't believe Thork's intention was ever just a simple money grab.  I also dont believe he had any idea that this one-off would go for $125 either.  I was certainly shocked.  Although I wasnt when the French version and the unique copy of G4 he donated went for over $100 at the NTRPG auction mainly because the money goes to fund the convention and to Doug's charity.  And its my opinion that in the future Thork, you might want to create these one-off items like this for such special occasions like charity auctions.  It at least will keep your name from being dragged through the mud.


I agree with all of the stuff there...
If you do future one-offs, perhaps donate that item to a convention for auction, or as an auction here (or even on e-Bay) with the proceeds to be donated to some worthy cause...

Only a truly despicable person would bash you for donating something like this to a worthy cause.... no matter how much it sold for.

For now, I would probably take that fortune of $125 you just got for this one-off and buy a new home.....  :roll:  :wink:  :lol:


And I thought I'd just quote you, before you re-edit again and take out the narky bits like normal....


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Post Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:11 am 
 

ashmire13 wrote:I wouldn't class myself as despicable Gnat.
Nor do I consider it a huge money grabber in the grand scheme of thing, because Thork isn't going to buy a new house on that much...

So feel free to carry on and have a little dig at anyone who doesn't have the same view as you eh....


You read things in my post that are clearly not there, which is no surprise to me.
I have never called you or anyone else here despicable and to be clear I do not think you are anything close to that.
Strongly opinionated perhaps, but then so am I... and I see nothing wrong with that either.

And no Thork wont REALLY be able to buy that new house with the $125...  :lol:


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Post Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:59 am 
 

Then I apologise for reading something that you did not imply

Strong opinions are what make the Forums go round..... :)

EDIT - I would like to say though, that it's quite clear that we are all very passionate and enthusiastic about this game we love and that without all our views and discussions, the game would be long dead. I hope that sufficient numbers in the next generations keep the history and game play alive. It may well make Thorks, PGS, Burntwires, BHPs & Mythmeres products as collectible in the future as those that we hold dear now.


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Post Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 1:52 pm 
 

Pipswich wrote:Bump to $125.  I respect the way this controversy has been handled by everyone on the forum/post.  It's worth the bid to encourage such civilized discourse... and the module looks awesome too.


I just received the print/copy this morning. I have contacted the winning bidder, and will be sending it to him ASAP.
Let this now close the matter on this item.


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Post Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:45 pm 
 

I agree, this should be over, as it's time has passed, but it's not your call to inform those on the forum that it is, as Forums discuss anything they wish when they wish.


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Post Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:25 pm 
 

ashmire13 wrote:I agree, this should be over, as it's time has passed, but it's not your call to inform those on the forum that it is, as Forums discuss anything they wish when they wish.


Well, again, my fingers don't always deliver what I wish them to say. Let "us"(all of us) now close (conclude) the matter(controversy) on(of)this matter.
But, fine by me. You all can talk about it as long as you like.


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Post Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:46 pm 
 

Hahaha...all this sh*t just makes me want the stuff more...or puke. Yes, one of the two.

Hector.

  


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Post Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:40 pm 
 

The module arrived yesterday and I just had an opportunity to open it and admire Thork's handiwork.  Great job!  I am delighted.  The notes and hand drawn map included are a nice and special bonus!  Good luck with your future adventures!


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Post Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:30 pm 
 

My LULU box arrived this afternoon and I am pleased with the contents.
Thanks again Thork for providing us with yet another fine gaming product at a low cost.


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Post Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:04 pm 
 

Thanks, Pip and Gnat...


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