Frog God Games April 20 Update
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Post Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:16 am 
 

April 20, 2012
Tsar is printing! Notices for shipment have gone out, so if you have not yet received one, please email me at [email protected]s e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it . Books will ship May 28, with shipment from Paizo (if you bought from their site) about a week later. Greg flies up the week before so we can sign and number the copies ordered directly from us!

RA Reloaded is very rare and expensive…so yes, we are redoing both a Swords and Wizardry and a Pathfinder version  (pre-sale in about a month)—including 20 or so new levels (I am finalizing the last 2 this next week). This puts it over 50 levels!

We added a number of lower level areas (character levels 1-10), a village, a Temple of Tsathogga with a  three level dungeon of its own, and several deeper levels (wait until you see my treatment of the will-o-wisp on Level 12C).  I am also making it a faux-leather, stitch bound hardcover that will look like a Bible, and we are doing a series of 50-60 battle maps (miniature scale) of key encounter areas. Everything is drafted except 2 levels I am behind on (5B and 13C)—maps are in, art is ordered, and editing is in progress! Go Skeeter, John (Stater) and Dawn! The SW version will feature a red cover, and the Pathfinder version will be blue. Retail price is TBD (probably about $100). We may do this as a kickstarter project so we canm print more and get it into distribution. Please let me know your thoughts about this. We could offer premium packages at higher donation amounts--not sure what all would entice folks (a trip to Dallas or PaizoCon with the Frogs perhaps?). For all you collectors--what about copies of my original maps and texts etc.? Possibly extra "subscriber only" module add ons? Let me know what you think--I would like to be able to fund higher to afford to get into brick and mortar stores again.



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Post Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:58 am 
 

Great news Bill.

I will support the RA Reloaded project at the highest levels for both SW and Pathfinder.

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Post Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:46 pm 
 

I think the highest level of support should include free copies for all Acaeum members, at whatever cost. Thanks Martin!! :lol:

Kidding aside, the more goodies the better!

  

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Post Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:51 pm 
 

Also, I love the idea of having this leather bound.

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Post Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:54 pm 
 

Matt and I are discussing perks now--I do want to really do something special for guys who help fund this--news soon



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Post Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:03 pm 
 

I'm in for a RA Reloaded for SW right now, save me one! And I'll go in as a backer early doors if necessary too. Good Luck Bill!


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Post Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:10 pm 
 

ashmire13 wrote:I'm in for a RA Reloaded for SW right now, save me one! And I'll go in as a backer early doors if necessary too. Good Luck Bill!


I will definitely go for the S&W version but I wish it were AD&D or one of the AD&D clones instead. How does S&W handle such high level play?


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Post Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:44 pm 
 

I'm far happier with S&W than PF personally, and with Matts involvement it would be better to support his product too.

From what I've read of the S&W boxset, its pretty AD&D rule orientated anyway?


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Post Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:51 pm 
 

I will be getting both, sounds like a great project :D


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Post Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 3:34 pm 
 

ashmire13 wrote:I'm far happier with S&W than PF personally, and with Matts involvement it would be better to support his product too.

From what I've read of the S&W boxset, its pretty AD&D rule orientated anyway?


Yes, I'd really say that playing a S&W module using the 1e rules can be done out of the box without any conversion at all. The other way around, where you're using the S&W rules to play a 1e module, you might run into areas where AD&D has a specified spell or item that doesn't exist in S&W because it wasn't added until 1977+.

  


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Post Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:51 pm 
 

Mythmere1 wrote:
ashmire13 wrote:I'm far happier with S&W than PF personally, and with Matts involvement it would be better to support his product too.

From what I've read of the S&W boxset, its pretty AD&D rule orientated anyway?


Yes, I'd really say that playing a S&W module using the 1e rules can be done out of the box without any conversion at all. The other way around, where you're using the S&W rules to play a 1e module, you might run into areas where AD&D has a specified spell or item that doesn't exist in S&W because it wasn't added until 1977+.


Works for me, as I'm 1st ed AD&D anyway. I didn't see any big changes to S&W and think its a great system. Just wish there was more S&W on FGG etc :)


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Post Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:58 pm 
 

ashmire13 wrote:
Mythmere1 wrote:
Yes, I'd really say that playing a S&W module using the 1e rules can be done out of the box without any conversion at all. The other way around, where you're using the S&W rules to play a 1e module, you might run into areas where AD&D has a specified spell or item that doesn't exist in S&W because it wasn't added until 1977+.


Works for me, as I'm 1st ed AD&D anyway. I didn't see any big changes to S&W and think its a great system. Just wish there was more S&W on FGG etc :)


The difference seems a whole lot greater than that. S&W is an OD&D clone I believe (hence the 1977 comment) while AD&D is a very different take on the game system from OD&D. There is a tremendous amount to add to material written for S&W if you want to convert it to pre-UA AD&D, especially at high levels. It is easier to convert than the Pathfinder version, since that system adds and changes tons of pure crap to AD&D, but an actual AD&D clone would work the best.


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Post Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:02 pm 
 

Using S&W Complete (instead of Core or White Box) gets you a good bit closer to AD&D.

But regardless of which baseline version of S&W you use, I like to think of it as using the AD&D books as supplements to a S&W game. If a module refers to a spell that isn't in S&W, just pull out the PHB and use the spell as-is. Ditto for monsters, magic items, classes, etc. The DNA of the various systems are so similar that the slight numerical/scale differences are mostly just in the noise. Who cares if the NPC cleric has a spell that PC's don't have? (etc.)

Edit: I think I misunderstood Jason's point a bit, so hopefully the above isn't too big of a derail.


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Post Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:10 pm 
 

Guy Fullerton wrote:Using S&W Complete (instead of Core or White Box) gets you a good bit closer to AD&D.

But regardless of which baseline version of S&W you use, I like to think of it as using the AD&D books as supplements to a S&W game. If a module refers to a spell that isn't in S&W, just pull out the PHB and use the spell as-is. Ditto for monsters, magic items, classes, etc. The DNA of the various systems are so similar that the slight numerical/scale differences are mostly just in the noise. Who cares if the NPC cleric has a spell that PC's don't have? (etc.)

Edit: I think I misunderstood Jason's point a bit, so hopefully the above isn't too big of a derail.


I'm probably not familiar enough with S&W but as I remember OD&D there was a big difference at higher levels. I'm not sure how S&W handled that. My big experience with it is the Tome of Horrors and there is a bit of work converting the short entries in S&W form to the longer entries in 1e AD&D form. Much, much easier to work with S&W than Pathfinder, but my thought was that a AD&D clone version of Tsar or Rappan Athuk would be much preferable for use with AD&D.


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Post Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:44 am 
 

An AD&D/S&W version of Tsar would really be something!


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Post Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:15 pm 
 

JasonZavoda wrote: my thought was that a AD&D clone version of Tsar or Rappan Athuk would be much preferable for use with AD&D.


For someone who uses all the whistles and bells of the AD&D rules, this is true; most especially when you're talking about monsters that have spells or use psionics.

  

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Post Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:48 pm 
 

Mythmere1 wrote:
JasonZavoda wrote: my thought was that a AD&D clone version of Tsar or Rappan Athuk would be much preferable for use with AD&D.


For someone who uses all the whistles and bells of the AD&D rules, this is true; most especially when you're talking about monsters that have spells or use psionics.


My exposure to FGG and S&W has been Tome and the difference between the basic information in S&W format and even pre-UA 1e AD&D is very great, even with no bells, whistles or psionics.

I started playing with the Holmes basic set but that was the first and last D&D rules set that I used. When AD&D was released I'd found the game I was looking for. Never cared for Unearthed Arcana or the direction that the rules for skills over roleplaying took (and felt that the tremendous amount of damage that weapon skills let fighters get away with was a jump the shark moment for the game).

S&W is an OD&D clone isn't it? Not even the basic, expert, companion, masters, Immortals (becmi) or Rules Cyclopedia D&D, but the old woody/white box stuff? What I am looking for is something more like an OSRIC version of Tome, Tsar and Rappan Athuk, but S&W is head over heels better for me than Pathfinder (which doesn't feel to me like the same game as AD&D at all, while OD&D just requires adding material). I just wish there was a purely (or damn close) AD&D option to choose with the FGG material.


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Post Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:20 am 
 

There are three versions of S&W. Well, more than that, if you account for rules differences in the different printings of each of the different versions. But ignoring that detail for a moment, and looking at the latest printings of each version, there is:

S&W White Box approximates 3LBB only. So d6 for hit dice & damage, no thief, race-as-class (kinda) minimal bonuses from stats, 0e xp requirements at high level (comparatively fast progression compared to 1e), etc.

S&W Core Rules approximates 3LBB + choice details from the supplements (especially Greyhawk). So variable hit dice (d8 for fighter, d6 cleric, d4 mu), d8 hit dice for monsters, variable weapon damage, slightly higher bonuses from stats, more race+class combos, more spells, etc. It might appear much like a hybrid between B/X and 1e.

S&W Complete Rules approximates LBB + almost all of the supplements. It's akin to a proto-AD&D. It's everything in S&W Core Rules, plus adds ranger, paladin, assassin, druid. (I forget what else it adds.)


The difference between Core Rules and Complete used to be larger, but the latest printing of Core Rules brought the two much closer together.


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Post Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:37 am 
 

Or another way to look at it:

If you compared a typical 5th-level AD&D fighter to a typical 5th-level S&W Core/Complete fighter, and assuming equal equipment, the AD&D fighter would be a little bit better overall. Depending on stats, we're talking 5-10 more hp on average, AC maybe 1 point better, and dealing 1-2 more damage per hit. Roughly speaking, that AD&D fighter might be about one level's worth better than the S&W fighter.

The same is true for the other classes, except maybe the magic-user. Though the AD&D magic user would have implicit access to a broader range of spells to have gained.

So in practice, it's mostly a matter of interpreting the recommended level ranges on S&W modules properly. (Which you're probably already used to, because you're already doing that based on the number of players you have in your group, the amount of magic items they have, etc.) If an S&W module is recommended for levels 7-9, perhaps AD&D characters of levels 6-8 would be sufficient (roughly speaking).


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Post Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:44 am 
 

Apparently I can't shut up, so one last way of looking at it:

In my current AD&D campaign, I've used Tomb of the Iron God (for S&W), Orange B3 (B/X), Grinding Gear (generic D&D module scaled to about B/X or so), Dark Chateau (C&C), parts of Demonspore (S&W), and Barrowmaze (LL, so B/X) with no problem. I don't really convert; I just use them as-is, and it's worked just fine.


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