Interesting Non-TSR Items Formerly on eBay • Page 105 • Collecting General

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Interesting Non-TSR Items Formerly on eBay
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webrik33
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Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 12:18 am

increment wrote in Interesting Non-TSR Items Formerly on eBay:From what I can judge from the pictures, the #5, #7, #8, #9, and the #4 are photocopies, not originals. Surely contemporary photocopies, but photocopies nonetheless. Gary was pretty good about circulating photocopies of his personal issues, like #5 (you can see the "Gary" on it), especially when Schleicher was slow to fulfill subscriptions. I have a contemporary photocopy just like that #5.

Are the prices listed on this site for originals or photocopies?

Make them pay as much as they think they can afford...J.R. "Bob" Dobbs

randomluck
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Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:04 am

webrik33 wrote in Interesting Non-TSR Items Formerly on eBay:
increment wrote in Interesting Non-TSR Items Formerly on eBay:From what I can judge from the pictures, the #5, #7, #8, #9, and the #4 are photocopies, not originals. Surely contemporary photocopies, but photocopies nonetheless. Gary was pretty good about circulating photocopies of his personal issues, like #5 (you can see the "Gary" on it), especially when Schleicher was slow to fulfill subscriptions. I have a contemporary photocopy just like that #5.

Are the prices listed on this site for originals or photocopies?

The prices listed on the detailed Domesday Book page for the 9/12 auctions are all for Dave Arneson's personal copies. I'm not sure about any of the other prices listed on the site.

Melnibonean
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Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:12 pm

increment wrote in Interesting Non-TSR Items Formerly on eBay:From what I can judge from the pictures, the #5, #7, #8, #9, and the #4 are photocopies, not originals. Surely contemporary photocopies, but photocopies nonetheless. Gary was pretty good about circulating photocopies of his personal issues, like #5 (you can see the "Gary" on it), especially when Schleicher was slow to fulfill subscriptions. I have a contemporary photocopy just like that #5.

I asked the seller if he had any provenance to go with the Domesdays and mentioned that some of them appeared to be photocopies and if he knew which were originals and which were photocopies. This was his reply:

"These items are part of an on-going estate sale of a lifelong gamer. Yes, he had a habit of photocopying documents and we would not knowingly sell a bootleg item. Bootlegged items will be immediately withdrawn from sale. Beyond that, I repeat from the description all items are being sold as is. Thank you for your inquiry."

It was not encouraging to see "Yes, he had a habit of photocopying documents..." It is interesting that #5, #7, #8, and #9 all have the three ring binder hole punches in them and may have come from the same source. Increment has a better eye for this than I do. If they are contemporary photocopies from the early 70s then there is probably some value in them. If those copies happened to have occurred outside of that time period and were possibly even unauthorized copies then there is little to no value for those copies in my opinion. There are at least 2 and possibly up to 4 original Domesdays there. This auction should hit 5 figures pretty easily in my estimate.

stratochamp
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Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:58 pm

I agree with Jon that this auction contains EXACTLY 2 original Domesday Books.
Not an encouraging response from the seller, hoping that people will bid anyway even though they are photocopies.

Shrink is not a condition

Grug Greyskin
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Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:08 pm

Melnibonean wrote in Interesting Non-TSR Items Formerly on eBay:
increment wrote in Interesting Non-TSR Items Formerly on eBay:From what I can judge from the pictures, the #5, #7, #8, #9, and the #4 are photocopies, not originals. Surely contemporary photocopies, but photocopies nonetheless. Gary was pretty good about circulating photocopies of his personal issues, like #5 (you can see the "Gary" on it), especially when Schleicher was slow to fulfill subscriptions. I have a contemporary photocopy just like that #5.

I asked the seller if he had any provenance to go with the Domesdays and mentioned that some of them appeared to be photocopies and if he knew which were originals and which were photocopies. This was his reply:

"These items are part of an on-going estate sale of a lifelong gamer. Yes, he had a habit of photocopying documents and we would not knowingly sell a bootleg item. Bootlegged items will be immediately withdrawn from sale.

He has posted this Q&A on the listing, but he has not changed the listing or "immediately withdrawn from sale" any of the copies shown.

increment
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Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:17 pm

Grug Greyskin wrote in Interesting Non-TSR Items Formerly on eBay:He has posted this Q&A on the listing, but he has not changed the listing or "immediately withdrawn from sale" any of the copies shown.

I wouldn't be too hard on the seller. He's selling the estate of a guy who probably picked these up forty years ago from a few different sources, maybe buying the hole-punched ones all as a lot at some early GenCon, purchased from a guy who got a photocopy from someone who got a photocopy from Gary. No one attached any importance then to the distinction between an original or a copy, nor did anyone have the slightest inkling of the potential valuation of these items decades later. I certainly would not accuse the seller of dealing bootleg items.

Grug Greyskin
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Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:28 pm

increment wrote in Interesting Non-TSR Items Formerly on eBay:
Grug Greyskin wrote in Interesting Non-TSR Items Formerly on eBay:He has posted this Q&A on the listing, but he has not changed the listing or "immediately withdrawn from sale" any of the copies shown.

I wouldn't be too hard on the seller. He's selling the estate of a guy who probably picked these up forty years ago from a few different sources, maybe buying the hole-punched ones all as a lot at some early GenCon, purchased from a guy who got a photocopy from someone who got a photocopy from Gary. No one attached any importance then to the distinction between an original or a copy, nor did anyone have the slightest inkling of the potential valuation of these items decades later. I certainly would not accuse the seller of dealing bootleg items.

I don't think he is intentionally trying to cheat anyone, as he clearly did not know what he had and could not have realized the value (the listing started at $9.95). At this point, however, I think he has some degree of obligation to make sure he is accurately listing the item. You can't stand behind "AS IS" on a potentially $10K auction lot.

increment
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Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:57 pm

Grug Greyskin wrote in Interesting Non-TSR Items Formerly on eBay:
increment wrote in Interesting Non-TSR Items Formerly on eBay:I don't think he is intentionally trying to cheat anyone, as he clearly did not know what he had and could not have realized the value (the listing started at $9.95). At this point, however, I think he has some degree of obligation to make sure he is accurately listing the item. You can't stand behind "AS IS" on a potentially $10K auction lot.

I do see your point, but I also recognize that there are only a handful of people in the world who can confidently assess the authenticity of these items, and this seller surely isn't one of them - nor is he probably even aware of the controversy playing out here, nor the potentially outcome of the bidding. Who has the authority to tell him he's in the wrong? Frankly, given the low quality of the scans, my own judgment on the items is restricted to only the most blatant problems (like the obvious "Gary" photocopy and its brethren, color loss, unusual stapling, lack of mailing creases, etc).

There still isn't any serious compendium of information about the Domesday Book online now that people like this seller could leverage to assist in determining what is authentic and what isn't. I suppose comparing the #5 scan up here on the Acaeum to the one on eBay would be enlightening, though hardly decisive. I might suggest the Domesday Book page on this site is perhaps due for an update. I know I proposed some additions three years ago that never made it up. Many of the statements about "only one copy of this or that existing" are now a bit outdated.

webrik33
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Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:09 pm

So my dumb question of the day is which issues are the originals? And estimated value thereof? would the hole-punched copies carry any value at all?

Make them pay as much as they think they can afford...J.R. "Bob" Dobbs

faro
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Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:41 pm

randomluck wrote in Interesting Non-TSR Items Formerly on eBay:
webrik33 wrote in Interesting Non-TSR Items Formerly on eBay:

Are the prices listed on this site for originals or photocopies?

The prices listed on the detailed Domesday Book page for the 9/12 auctions are all for Dave Arneson's personal copies. I'm not sure about any of the other prices listed on the site.

The "estimated values" as currently given are presumably an extrapolation from the Dave Arneson copies (with some silly numbers in there) rather than including any of the other sales in the $600-2000ish range in recent history. Take as you will.

"7.3 ORGANIZING THE PARTY: Always have a keg, even if it's BYOB...
7.4 TAKING THE GAME SERIOUSLY: Don't"

Phentari
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Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:59 am

This one's really kind of interesting. A lot of people, both companies and individuals, shelled out quite a bit of money to salvage the Knights of the Dinner Table live action series after-party after the individual who was responsible reneged.

In an effort to help pay back those people, Kenzer and Company are auctioning some of the props from the film shoot.

I thought that this one, in particular, might be of interest to some of the collectors here, since it's really a one of a kind piece: it's the only complete shooting script, used by Barb Blackburn during the shooting of the film.

** eBay auction listing blocked. Please enable cookies in your browser for this site and for eBay! **

chrisdeputron
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Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:42 pm

Grug Greyskin wrote in Interesting Non-TSR Items Formerly on eBay:
increment wrote in Interesting Non-TSR Items Formerly on eBay:I wouldn't be too hard on the seller. He's selling the estate of a guy who probably picked these up forty years ago from a few different sources, maybe buying the hole-punched ones all as a lot at some early GenCon, purchased from a guy who got a photocopy from someone who got a photocopy from Gary. No one attached any importance then to the distinction between an original or a copy, nor did anyone have the slightest inkling of the potential valuation of these items decades later. I certainly would not accuse the seller of dealing bootleg items.

I don't think he is intentionally trying to cheat anyone, as he clearly did not know what he had and could not have realized the value (the listing started at $9.95). At this point, however, I think he has some degree of obligation to make sure he is accurately listing the item. You can't stand behind "AS IS" on a potentially $10K auction lot.

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." Whatever their value maybe now, I do question what their value maybe in say 20 years time. What happens when the little knowledge of these types of items disappears?

faro
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Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:25 pm

Just in case anyone recently splurged a few hundred dollars on Traveller 'zines, or was tempted to do so, heracleides on eBay is back to selling his (expensive) forgeries yet again. A couple of their most recent listings appear to have been rather too tempting...

They probably won't smell as new this time around.

"7.3 ORGANIZING THE PARTY: Always have a keg, even if it's BYOB...
7.4 TAKING THE GAME SERIOUSLY: Don't"

JasonZavoda
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Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:12 pm

faro wrote in Interesting Non-TSR Items Formerly on eBay:Just in case anyone recently splurged a few hundred dollars on Traveller 'zines, or was tempted to do so, heracleides on eBay is back to selling his (expensive) forgeries yet again. A couple of their most recent listings appear to have been rather too tempting...

They probably won't smell as new this time around.

I posted about this in the general discussion forum. I messaged him and he claims they are original but I didn't believe him.

"You get more with a kind word and an excruciator than with just a kind word."

faro
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Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:15 pm

JasonZavoda wrote in Interesting Non-TSR Items Formerly on eBay:I posted about this in the general discussion forum. I messaged him and he claims they are original but I didn't believe him.

*g* You were too quick off the mark, kudos.

Yeah... barring a few possible exceptions due to personal contacts, the seller's a liar and knows well enough what the original items look like as they additionally had those for sale 4-5 years ago per the old thread.
The cheap, poor quality laser printer output is particularly obnoxious on the Signal GKs - which have made him $450+ in a couple of days. (Although why they didn't greedily ask for even more money is a good question after receiving four figures for a genuine set, back then? Maybe they reckon they won't be lynched if the buyer finds out they've been sold fakes at "only" $12/issue.

"7.3 ORGANIZING THE PARTY: Always have a keg, even if it's BYOB...
7.4 TAKING THE GAME SERIOUSLY: Don't"

misterspock
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Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 4:06 pm

webrik33 wrote in Interesting Non-TSR Items Formerly on eBay:So my dumb question of the day is which issues are the originals? And estimated value thereof? would the hole-punched copies carry any value at all?

my last minute bid didn't register!!!

Congratulations to the winner PDT_Armataz_01_37

Bracton
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Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 5:32 pm

Mine registered, but it wasn't enough. Congrats to one of the usual suspects!

The good news in losing is now pretty much anything I look to buy will seem cheap by comparison. :lol:

"Parturient montes, nascetur ridiculus mus."

TheHistorian
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Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:02 pm

How much is that per page?

Areas of interest/knowledge: Harn, WFRP, Ars Magica, anything BRP based such as CoC, Runequest, Pendragon and all their related games

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