Interesting Non-TSR Items Formerly on eBay
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Post Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:47 am 
 

It's being sold by Bill Wilkerson, who played in Moldvay and Schick's group.  I spoke to Lawrence about the map at NTX, and Bill is trying to sell it on eBay at my recommendation that it might fetch a higher price than at GenCon.  We'll see ;)


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Post Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:07 am 
 

Sold!

(Not me, if anyone is wondering.   Congrats to the winner, someone with a lot of empty wall space, I presume.)


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Post Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 5:18 pm 
 

Remarkable... the original source of the Moldvay/Cook campaign world, and the Known World for BECM (and all adventures & gazetteers).
And hand-made by Moldvay and Schick.
Museum piece.


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Post Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 6:01 pm 
 

Bill should have waited and brought it to GenCon, he would have gotten more.


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Post Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:25 pm 
 

3 day unannounced sale did not help?
ExTSR wrote in Interesting Non-TSR Items Formerly on eBay:Remarkable... the original source of the Moldvay/Cook campaign world, and the Known World for BECM (and all adventures & gazetteers).
And hand-made by Moldvay and Schick.
Museum piece.

needed more than the 1.5 days left for questions. small maps on blog Black Gate  » Blog Archive   » The "Known World" D&D Setting: A Secret History made after or before big map?
dating for anything not helped by white box d&d in early 1974 :)


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Post Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:48 pm 
 

it's nice to see Rakeesh make an appearance :-)


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Post Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:11 pm 
 

** eBay auction listing blocked.  Please enable cookies in your browser for this site and for eBay! **



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Post Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:39 pm 
 

Guy Fullerton wrote in Interesting Non-TSR Items Formerly on eBay:** eBay auction listing blocked.  Please enable cookies in your browser for this site and for eBay! **




I wonder where he got these from 8O


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Post Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:41 pm 
 

Blackmoor wrote in Interesting Non-TSR Items Formerly on eBay:
Guy Fullerton wrote in Interesting Non-TSR Items Formerly on eBay:** eBay auction listing blocked.  Please enable cookies in your browser for this site and for eBay! **




I wonder where he got these from 8O

I'm sure he's the original owner. The owner of The War House is probably in his 70's. (Though I haven't been in the store in a couple years. I've been curious as to whether he passed away and his son has been liquidating all the goodies from years and years of war-game and rpg collecting.)


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Post Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:42 pm 
 

Holy fuck. This auction is going to go like $20 grand. I'mma grab my popcorn and watch the explosion.

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Post Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:44 pm 
 

And if the winning bidder doesn't click through an Acaeum link, I'm going to cry!

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Post Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:11 pm 
 

From what I can judge from the pictures, the #5, #7, #8, #9, and the #4 are photocopies, not originals. Surely contemporary photocopies, but photocopies nonetheless. Gary was pretty good about circulating photocopies of his personal issues, like #5 (you can see the "Gary" on it), especially when Schleicher was slow to fulfill subscriptions. I have a contemporary photocopy just like that #5.


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Post Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 12:18 am 
 

increment wrote in Interesting Non-TSR Items Formerly on eBay:From what I can judge from the pictures, the #5, #7, #8, #9, and the #4 are photocopies, not originals. Surely contemporary photocopies, but photocopies nonetheless. Gary was pretty good about circulating photocopies of his personal issues, like #5 (you can see the "Gary" on it), especially when Schleicher was slow to fulfill subscriptions. I have a contemporary photocopy just like that #5.



Are the prices listed on this site for originals or photocopies?


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Post Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:04 am 
 

webrik33 wrote in Interesting Non-TSR Items Formerly on eBay:
increment wrote in Interesting Non-TSR Items Formerly on eBay:From what I can judge from the pictures, the #5, #7, #8, #9, and the #4 are photocopies, not originals. Surely contemporary photocopies, but photocopies nonetheless. Gary was pretty good about circulating photocopies of his personal issues, like #5 (you can see the "Gary" on it), especially when Schleicher was slow to fulfill subscriptions. I have a contemporary photocopy just like that #5.



Are the prices listed on this site for originals or photocopies?


The prices listed on the detailed Domesday Book page for the 9/12 auctions are all for Dave Arneson's personal copies.  I'm not sure about any of the other prices listed on the site.

  

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Post Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:12 pm 
 

increment wrote in Interesting Non-TSR Items Formerly on eBay:From what I can judge from the pictures, the #5, #7, #8, #9, and the #4 are photocopies, not originals. Surely contemporary photocopies, but photocopies nonetheless. Gary was pretty good about circulating photocopies of his personal issues, like #5 (you can see the "Gary" on it), especially when Schleicher was slow to fulfill subscriptions. I have a contemporary photocopy just like that #5.


I asked the seller if he had any provenance to go with the Domesdays and mentioned that some of them appeared to be photocopies and if he knew which were originals and which were photocopies.  This was his reply:

"These items are part of an on-going estate sale of a lifelong gamer. Yes, he had a habit of photocopying documents and we would not knowingly sell a bootleg item. Bootlegged items will be immediately withdrawn from sale. Beyond that, I repeat from the description all items are being sold as is. Thank you for your inquiry."

It was not encouraging to see "Yes, he had a habit of photocopying documents..."  It is interesting that #5, #7, #8, and #9 all have the three ring binder hole punches in them and may have come from the same source.  Increment has a better eye for this than I do.  If they are contemporary photocopies from the early 70s then there is probably some value in them.  If those copies happened to have occurred outside of that time period and were possibly even unauthorized copies then there is little to no value for those copies in my opinion.   There are at least 2 and possibly up to 4 original Domesdays there.  This auction should hit 5 figures pretty easily in my estimate.

  


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Post Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:58 pm 
 

I agree with Jon that this auction contains EXACTLY 2 original Domesday Books.
Not an encouraging response from the seller, hoping that people will bid anyway even though they are photocopies.


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Post Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:08 pm 
 

Melnibonean wrote in Interesting Non-TSR Items Formerly on eBay:
increment wrote in Interesting Non-TSR Items Formerly on eBay:From what I can judge from the pictures, the #5, #7, #8, #9, and the #4 are photocopies, not originals. Surely contemporary photocopies, but photocopies nonetheless. Gary was pretty good about circulating photocopies of his personal issues, like #5 (you can see the "Gary" on it), especially when Schleicher was slow to fulfill subscriptions. I have a contemporary photocopy just like that #5.


I asked the seller if he had any provenance to go with the Domesdays and mentioned that some of them appeared to be photocopies and if he knew which were originals and which were photocopies.  This was his reply:

"These items are part of an on-going estate sale of a lifelong gamer. Yes, he had a habit of photocopying documents and we would not knowingly sell a bootleg item. Bootlegged items will be immediately withdrawn from sale.


He has posted this Q&A on the listing, but he has not changed the listing or "immediately withdrawn from sale" any of the copies shown.

  

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Post Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:17 pm 
 

Grug Greyskin wrote in Interesting Non-TSR Items Formerly on eBay:He has posted this Q&A on the listing, but he has not changed the listing or "immediately withdrawn from sale" any of the copies shown.

I wouldn't be too hard on the seller. He's selling the estate of a guy who probably picked these up forty years ago from a few different sources, maybe buying the hole-punched ones all as a lot at some early GenCon, purchased from a guy who got a photocopy from someone who got a photocopy from Gary. No one attached any importance then to the distinction between an original or a copy, nor did anyone have the slightest inkling of the potential valuation of these items decades later. I certainly would not accuse the seller of dealing bootleg items.

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Post Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:28 pm 
 

increment wrote in Interesting Non-TSR Items Formerly on eBay:
Grug Greyskin wrote in Interesting Non-TSR Items Formerly on eBay:He has posted this Q&A on the listing, but he has not changed the listing or "immediately withdrawn from sale" any of the copies shown.

I wouldn't be too hard on the seller. He's selling the estate of a guy who probably picked these up forty years ago from a few different sources, maybe buying the hole-punched ones all as a lot at some early GenCon, purchased from a guy who got a photocopy from someone who got a photocopy from Gary. No one attached any importance then to the distinction between an original or a copy, nor did anyone have the slightest inkling of the potential valuation of these items decades later. I certainly would not accuse the seller of dealing bootleg items.


I don't think he is intentionally trying to cheat anyone, as he clearly did not know what he had and could not have realized the value (the listing started at $9.95). At this point, however, I think he has some degree of obligation to make sure he is accurately listing the item. You can't stand behind "AS IS" on a potentially $10K auction lot.

  

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Post Posted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:57 pm 
 

Grug Greyskin wrote in Interesting Non-TSR Items Formerly on eBay:
increment wrote in Interesting Non-TSR Items Formerly on eBay:I don't think he is intentionally trying to cheat anyone, as he clearly did not know what he had and could not have realized the value (the listing started at $9.95). At this point, however, I think he has some degree of obligation to make sure he is accurately listing the item. You can't stand behind "AS IS" on a potentially $10K auction lot.

I do see your point, but I also recognize that there are only a handful of people in the world who can confidently assess the authenticity of these items, and this seller surely isn't one of them - nor is he probably even aware of the controversy playing out here, nor the potentially outcome of the bidding. Who has the authority to tell him he's in the wrong? Frankly, given the low quality of the scans, my own judgment on the items is restricted to only the most blatant problems (like the obvious "Gary" photocopy and its brethren, color loss, unusual stapling, lack of mailing creases, etc).

There still isn't any serious compendium of information about the Domesday Book online now that people like this seller could leverage to assist in determining what is authentic and what isn't. I suppose comparing the #5 scan up here on the Acaeum to the one on eBay would be enlightening, though hardly decisive. I might suggest the Domesday Book page on this site is perhaps due for an update. I know I proposed some additions three years ago that never made it up. Many of the statements about "only one copy of this or that existing" are now a bit outdated.

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