MetamorphosisSigma wrote:But IP is a lot broader than copyright (which is I think the crux of the issue we're discussing). No one is planning on publishing something that incorporates a bunch of WotC's (for instance) intellectual property. We're just talking about copying part of an item to make it complete, or making a photocopy/pdf backup.Now *I'm* getting way into amateur territory, but IIRC there's a certain dollar amount threshold ($2,500?) where it becomes a felony even without a complaint by the copyright holder.
bbarsh wrote:In short, if you did not purchase a product - PDF included - from a publisher (or retailer), it is not legal to obtain it. By publisher/retailer I mean someone who is authorized by the IP holder to distribute the item.Simply owning a print version of a product does not entitle anyone to grab a PDF off the net. A person does not gain any right to a PDF unless the IP holder distributes the PDF with the original or subsequent purchase. As to the question of a back up copy, there is no such right with printed material. You can't just reproduce items or PDFs in case your house burns down. Sounds a bit harsh, but that is the way it is. Can you make back up copies of a PDF you legally purchased? I think that is ok so long as you do not distribute it.
You want to make back up copies of stuff you legally obtained, go ahead. No problem with that. But going online to get back ups is not legal. This may seem like splitting hairs, but there it is. The wonderful world of IP.
Personally, if I did not buy it, I don't feel I have any right to have it. That may make me a dinosaur in this Internet world, but here I am.
ExTSR wrote:Gee, I remember when this thread was about eBay. And things for sale.
Prufrock wrote:I'm not an expert, but the way I understand the law is that you are allowed to make a backup and even prinit it out for your kids to use. The violation happens when someone who does not hold the copyright profits from the sale of "copied or PDFed" work. Therefore denying the rightful holder of copyright the money.I bought a copy of Tombs of Valla off ebay minus the maps. One of the members here sent me a pdf of the maps. I've printed the maps out and placed them with my copy of Tombs of Valls. I've noterized the maps as "copies". If the maps are part of the copyright held by Clegg than I do not think any violation occurred. However, if the maps had a separate copyright then I think there could be problem. Especially is the copyright holder had a website up where you could buy copies of the map.Martin
bbarsh wrote:As to the question of a back up copy, there is no such right with printed material. You can't just reproduce items or PDFs in case your house burns down. Sounds a bit harsh, but that is the way it is.
rhynne wrote:Hey Sardan,Not sure what it is to the UK, but it was around US$48.00 to Hong Kong for the shipping... Best regards,Ronald
lokiwookie wrote:** eBay auction listing blocked. Please enable cookies in your browser for this site and for eBay! **There was a BIN at $50, I don't understand why the bidder didn't buy it...
sauromatian wrote:That's the way it is if "libraries/archives/museums/educators" are strictly professional & public institutions. Which assumes a strong role for government involvement in public cultural life - usually a big-government, nanny-state approach. Is that what you wish to advocate?It's also the argument for restricting the 2nd Amendment to government-controlled militias. Pretty liberal.Robert Bork interpreted the 1st Amendment to apply only to professional, accredited journalists. The rest of us have no freedom of speech, while our freedom of religion is only what established churches tell us we can believe. Bork was a conservative, but do you find that reason enough to agree?
MetamorphosisSigma wrote:I don't feel entitled to free product either.
bbarsh wrote:Whatever.
bbarsh wrote: Libraries, schools, etc, don't distribute (they may loan, but not distribute). Archive all you want. I don't give a care. But I simply pointed out that distribution is the key with IP issues.
bbarsh wrote: (rest of quote did not copy over)It is not legal to obtain a pdf copy of a product that you did not purchase. It is that simple. No speculation involved. Also, it is not legal to distribute pdf copies of an item that you do not own, or have distribution rights. Again, no speculation involved.Owning a copy of X1 does not give the owner the right to obtain a pdf copy of X1 from the internet unless it is purchased/obtained from the IP holder or distributor of X1. No speculation there either. I am not an expert on "personal" use. I really could care less what you do with your copy of the legally obtained X1 in the confines of your home. Nobody does. Make a thousand copies and wall paper your house. But just don't supply your friend, or anyone else, with copies so they can wall paper their house. That is the line in the sand.I know this does not anwer specifically the question about what can a person do to "back up" their purchased products. But I really don't care. Sort of like making a cassette tape of that old lp. Whatever.
sauromatian wrote:Distribution is covered under § 108, including "deposit for research use in another library or archives." Surely a wargamer must remember what happened to the library at Alexandria, & the strategic need to protect against the possibility of invading hordes of barbarians.