Interesting Non-TSR Items Formerly on eBay
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Post Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:18 pm 
 

Marlith wrote:I want it to be known that I was unaware of any of this when I bid on it after posting it here.

Thanks for confirming that, Marl.

The "retract bid" option is still available, I presume...?
At present I'd've thought Mars is still the legal owner, if he hasn't received his money back and the seller claims they've already spent that(!).

Heck. At least that would demonstrate some displeasure in the manner they've handled this, at least; and it's still a seven day auction going nowhere anytime soon.

=
(I'd love to see whoever claimed it's worth $200 put their money where their mouth is, though. :roll: Somehow I doubt it...).

  

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Post Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:25 pm 
 

faro wrote:Thanks for confirming that, Marl.

The "retract bid" option is still available, I presume...?
At present I'd've thought Mars is still the legal owner, if he hasn't received his money back and the seller claims they've already spent that(!).

Heck. At least that would demonstrate some displeasure in the manner they've handled this, at least; and it's still a seven day auction going nowhere anytime soon.

=
(I'd love to see whoever claimed it's worth $200 put their money where their mouth is, though. :roll: Somehow I doubt it...).


I have no problem with that. My only concern is if I can legally retract the bid. I will do it and describe the events as put forth here as the reason. I do not want to get my eBay account flagged or affected in anyway because of this though.


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Post Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:33 pm 
 

Marlith wrote:I have no problem with that. My only concern is if I can legally retract the bid. I will do it and describe the events as put forth here as the reason. I do not want to get my eBay account flagged or affected in anyway because of this though.

Cheers.

A generic "not as described" would surely suffice.
For a start, that it doesn't actually belong to them at present! (And cannot possibly revert until Mars has his money back, at the very least).

Yeah, retracting bids is something I've only done once, myself; to trap keepontheborderlands when I was almost certain they were lying about the BIN the stated in the text of their auction for their WoM. And they were.

(Not as many people seem to put "entered incorrect bid" as they used to, however! Thank goodness... :o)

=
I'm not touching this auction with a bargepole, anyhow. (Not that I would've been, anyhow, since I left that to deimos, remember! ^^).

  

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Post Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:34 pm 
 

I have sent a message throiugh eBay to the seller asking that my bid be removed. If they will not remove it then I will retract it. I am going this route because based on what the Bid Retraction guidelines say I can not retract the bid. I will do that though if they do not cancel my bid for me.


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Post Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:01 pm 
 

faro wrote:@Mars: Erm, so you both agreed a legally binding transaction, he took your money, then unilaterally backed out?
I'm not sure what idiot quoted $200 (as a spoiler), but given that he'd taken- and still has- your money I'm surprised to see anyone from around here bidding it up again... :?

I'd personally be filing under shady/untrustworthy seller.

(Yeah, this has happened to me, too, although not quite on that timescale...).

Per my comment on The former Non-TSR Recent Fun Finds Thread • Page 28 • Collecting General - Non TSR •  The Acaeum , $50 is a fair price - and I paid less than that ($45-ish) on a full 7-day sale on eBay last year.


I made an offer of $40 (hence his starting price) + $8 for shipping which I thought was fair considering it has a name inside and an 1.5 inch embossing on the cover.  I even received this email from:

"Just a quick to confirm that I received your payment of $48.00 through
Paypal. The Necromican book will go out to you tomorrow at the following
address via airmail letter post: ..."

Then this morning I get the email:

"I am refunding all your money, as I have reconsidered selling the Necromican book offline. Due to the unexpected interest expressed by several people, I believe it is more fair to everyone to list it separately on eBay."

When I inquired about this he then says that the fair market value is  upto $200.  Looking at this email again, I guess it was nice of him to refund ALL my money (eventually I hope) and not charge me a self imposed restocking fee.

Easy come easy go I guess.  I am curious to see what this one ends at but I don't really want to pay a premium price for a blacked out name and 1.5 inch cover embossing so I don't mind waiting for the next one.

I suppose if I really wanted to push the subject I'm sure there is a small claims court case in there - I could have Judge Judy sort it out :)  Just out of curiousity, I sent an email off to Paypal to see what they say about it.  BTW, I don't begrudge anyone who wants to bid on the auction - not that I'm a big fish in the sea anyway :)

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Post Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:17 pm 
 

Thanks for the copy, Mars. Sorry to read that. :(
$40 was a good price, but hardly an outstanding bargain compared with the last one that went for $17 BIN, IIRC.

Not as though you'd viciously armtwisted them to sell you their woodgrain for $25, or anything like that.

Greedy Seller wrote:"...I believe it is more fair to everyone to list it separately on eBay."

How many times have I read that "excuse"... :?

All they are really interested in is more $ in their back pocket and it seems as though they're impatient to get that, too.
Selling something that doesn't actually belong to them at this particular instant in time is a new trick, I must admit.

  

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Post Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:27 pm 
 

Mars wrote:
I made an offer of $40 (hence his starting price) + $8 for shipping which I thought was fair considering it has a name inside and an 1.5 inch embossing on the cover.  I even received this email from:

"Just a quick to confirm that I received your payment of $48.00 through
Paypal. The Necromican book will go out to you tomorrow at the following
address via airmail letter post: ..."

Then this morning I get the email:

"I am refunding all your money, as I have reconsidered selling the Necromican book offline. Due to the unexpected interest expressed by several people, I believe it is more fair to everyone to list it separately on eBay."

When I inquired about this he then says that the fair market value is  upto $200.  Looking at this email again, I guess it was nice of him to refund ALL my money (eventually I hope) and not charge me a self imposed restocking fee.

Easy come easy go I guess.  I am curious to see what this one ends at but I don't really want to pay a premium price for a blacked out name and 1.5 inch cover embossing so I don't mind waiting for the next one.

I suppose if I really wanted to push the subject I'm sure there is a small claims court case in there - I could have Judge Judy sort it out :)  Just out of curiousity, I sent an email off to Paypal to see what they say about it.  BTW, I don't begrudge anyone who wants to bid on the auction - not that I'm a big fish in the sea anyway :)


What a pair of idiots...first the guy that reneged on the sale (you made an offer, he accepted you PAID for the item, cmon), and then the tard that threw crap in the birthday cake by quoting an inane price that this guy is NEVER going to see just to queer your deal.
  If I was a cynical sort I'd say this dude did not refund you immediately to see if he can get more on a relist, Having his cake and eating it too so to speak.
 Mars I would DEMAND the money immediately, and if not forthcoming charge back on it. What this guy did is definitely under the head of shady dealer.
  
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Post Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:37 pm 
 

faro wrote:I'm not touching this auction with a bargepole, anyhow. (Not that I would've been, anyhow, since I left that to deimos, remember! ^^).

I'm outta there, too.  That's just behaviour I can't support.

Marlith -- don't feel bad about doing the right thing!  You have every right to retract your bid in this situation.  Hopefully Frank will retract his bid as well.  I hope this thing never sells.  :evil:

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Post Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:04 pm 
 

File in eBay for fraud. Very simple. Send all the e-mails to them as well.
What I find disturbing is that it had to be a member from here who told him it was worth $200, probably to sour the deal and get it back on eBay.
Selling something on eBay for a "fair shot" as opposed to a private sale is fine, but selling something that has already been sold is reprehensible. That is exactly what happened with my first Fazzlewood.


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Post Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:37 pm 
 


** expired/removed eBay auction **

=> "The seller ended this listing early because the item is no longer available for sale."

Now whoever said it was worth $200 is hopefully going to be forced to pay a "bargain" $150 (yeah...), and perhaps Mars can get a cut of the profits if there's any justice?
(Of course, all you actually wanted was the book to read, wasn't it?).

On the other hand, if they turn up here and appear genuinely upset at having been misled by that person who threw the $200 spanner-in-the-works, I'd happily retract (at least some of) the presumptive comments above.

  


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Post Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:44 pm 
 

Wouldn't it be nice if someone won the auction for $200, and then didn't pay the seller?  :wink:

Edit: Oops, posted too late. Well, it would've be nice if that had happened...

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Post Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:49 pm 
 

I voiced my displeasure with the seller and he has taken it down at least until I get my money back - so you should see it back up next week.  

A nice thought David but I don't think I will see any of the profit the seller makes unless I want to take him to small claims court.  This copy now feels tainted so I probably won't bid on it when it goes back up and I will wait for the next one.  I might just have to win Kalifax to make me feel better  8)

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Post Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:17 pm 
 

faro wrote:Thanks for the copy, Mars. Sorry to read that. :(
$40 was a good price, but hardly an outstanding bargain compared with the last one that went for $17 BIN, IIRC.

Not as though you'd viciously armtwisted them to sell you their woodgrain for $25, or anything like that.


How many times have I read that "excuse"... :?

All they are really interested in is more $ in their back pocket and it seems as though they're impatient to get that, too.
Selling something that doesn't actually belong to them at this particular instant in time is a new trick, I must admit.


When a seller like this says "more fair," he means "more fair" to him.

He's using the word "fair" to say that you cheated him...which is "unfair."

Seeing it from his side, he probably feels taken advantage of...and it may not have occured to him that he has an obligation to keep such an agreement.

When the other bidders retracted their bids it probably suddenly occured to him that people might be watching what he's doing.

But, "more fair" means "no fair, you tricked me."

Mark   8)


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Post Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:24 pm 
 

I hope that everyone can concede that there are two sides to every story.

I am the owner of the book in question. I have been and always shall be an honorable member of the eBay community. When I originally listed my D&D rule books and included the Necromican, I have to admit that I did not know its value as a collectible. Then I began receiving a number of inquiries from people about buying the Necromican book off-line.

After thinking about this, I re-considered my decision of selling the book off-line. Going back to everyone who contacted me and asking what they would pay for it (which is what was suggested to me) did not seem right to me. Instead, selling it at auction seemed more fair to everyone and give everyone an equal chance at it. The true market value would then be determined by the highest bidder--whatever that is. I began the auction at a reasonable amount, and I did not expect to get $200.

Upon reflection, I understand why Mars is upset by my action of reconsidering his offer and refunding him his money. I have apologized to him several times and perhaps this was wrong on my part.

I am now receiving flames from other eBay members regarding this, which was a private matter actually conducted outside of eBay. Some posts in this forum call for me to be listed as an untrustworthy seller on eBay for an event that went outside of eBay, which I now realize it never should have. Is this truly justified? I can say that I have learned from this experience not to go outside of eBay.

I am saddened by the amount of negative energy this has generated and take responsibility for my share. I believe this is truly a lose-lose situation and not something I strive for. I respectfully bow out by removing the auction from eBay as requested by Mars.

  


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Post Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 11:39 pm 
 

I may have some slight responsibility here, necromican:  I had a post in another thread @ Necromican and others....... in which I had mistakenly stated that Necromican usually goes for $80-200, but I was thinking of Booty & The Beasts (I can only surmise) at the time.  

I've edited that post, so hopefully if anyone was using that as a bell-weather it'll be fixed in the future.  If that post wasn't the source for the $200 figure, then at least no one can be misled by it in the future.


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Post Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:02 am 
 

grodog wrote:I've edited that post, so hopefully if anyone was using that as a bell-weather it'll be fixed in the future.  If that post wasn't the source for the $200 figure, then at least no one can be misled by it in the future.

Cheers, gro'.
I still think someone just pulled that $200 out at random when looking for a figure high enough to force the seller to reconsider /after/ the sale had been concluded.
Booty has gone to $300 in the past, although I paid mid $100 for a double-signed minty copy, relatively recently. (And I thought that was kinda high; sorry Frank!).
And that's far more scarce than Necromican.

=
necromican wrote:I hope that everyone can concede that there are two sides to every story.

*nods*. And thanks for the post...

necromican wrote:I have been and always shall be an honorable member of the eBay community.

Some posts in this forum call for me to be listed as an untrustworthy seller on eBay for an event that went outside of eBay, which I now realize it never should have. Is this truly justified? I can say that I have learned from this experience not to go outside of eBay.

Lesson learned for future, anyhow. But I don't see why you still feel the need to acquire more badwill than is necessary.

And once a deal has been agreed and you've accepted the money, the honorable thing to do is see it through.
Excepting, perhaps, if you've been grossly deceived to an item's value (a $2,000 item for $25, say)... which you haven't, in this case.

Looking back through the records, the highest figures for Necromican I could find were just over $70, one of which was minty and the other included a whole batch of other stuff. On the other hand, other auctions realised $45, $50, $17 (BIN!) and similar figures.

I'm sure you know how happy it makes someone to have won an auction they have been looking for, for some time.
Whether it's worth throwing that, and a part of your honorable reputation, away for the sake of $20-$35 tops is entirely up to you.
*
If it might conclude a better deal for all parties, I'll happily send you that extra $ so that Mars can have the book you both agreed a sale on, and they paid for in good faith.

necromican wrote:I am saddened by the amount of negative energy this has generated and take responsibility for my share. I believe this is truly a lose-lose situation and not something I strive for.

Only a lose-lose if you wish to make it so.

The white box OCE set you have is doing very well by itself, anyhow, and will probably fetch almost as much as it would have had the Necromican been included in that sale.

Kindest regards,
David.

  

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Post Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:05 am 
 

You took a good step by coming here and posting, Necronomican.   People do make mistakes, but they can usually be fixed.

Finishing off the deal with Mars (assuming he's interested) would actually be a good way of closing out the matter.  It might also help your other sales.

Welcome here, by the way.   :)

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Post Posted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 12:07 am 
 

necromican wrote:I hope that everyone can concede that there are two sides to every story.

I am the owner of the book in question. I have been and always shall be an honorable member of the eBay community. When I originally listed my D&D rule books and included the Necromican, I have to admit that I did not know its value as a collectible. Then I began receiving a number of inquiries from people about buying the Necromican book off-line.

After thinking about this, I re-considered my decision of selling the book off-line. Going back to everyone who contacted me and asking what they would pay for it (which is what was suggested to me) did not seem right to me. Instead, selling it at auction seemed more fair to everyone and give everyone an equal chance at it. The true market value would then be determined by the highest bidder--whatever that is. I began the auction at a reasonable amount, and I did not expect to get $200.

Upon reflection, I understand why Mars is upset by my action of reconsidering his offer and refunding him his money. I have apologized to him several times and perhaps this was wrong on my part.

I am now receiving flames from other eBay members regarding this, which was a private matter actually conducted outside of eBay. Some posts in this forum call for me to be listed as an untrustworthy seller on eBay for an event that went outside of eBay, which I now realize it never should have. Is this truly justified? I can say that I have learned from this experience not to go outside of eBay.

I am saddened by the amount of negative energy this has generated and take responsibility for my share. I believe this is truly a lose-lose situation and not something I strive for. I respectfully bow out by removing the auction from eBay as requested by Mars.


It is good you apologized to Mars and take responsibility for your part in this fiasco; however, don't blame off Ebay sales (I have dozens of them a year and no problems), ignorance of item's worth, or any other factors. Plain and simple you promised the item at a certain price to a legitimate buyer, and then reneged on the deal.  By any account this is bad salesmanship to say the least.  I speak from experience, I have had to live up to one or two bad deals in the past myself but I had NO ONE BUT MYSELF TO BLAME because I had not done good research on the item or it's price.  After accepting the buyers money by not following through on the transaction you were 100% in the wrong, plain and simple. I personally would never at any point buy any of your items for any price, and unfortunately many other potential buyers that post here wouldn't either.  Hopefully you will be able to work everything out, but as a seller with 6000+ feedback on ebay my suggestion would be in the future to follow through on a completed deal no matter what the consequences or else be seen as a bad seller.

Mike B.


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