mbassoc2003 wrote:So what were the gems in there? I was after Black Tower and Chainmail. I don't know about most of the other stuff. I just took a gamble.

*LOL*. You crazy person!

So you don't want those other Midkemia publications, then?

As to others, well the "Authentic Thaumaturgy" is a good start.
(Albeit the last one on eBay looked though it was gonna go for a reasonable price, I stopped looking when they never bothered responding to my emails).

Kinda regretting reducing my max bid- couldn't afford much more, given the other auctions, ongoing. *shrugs*.

bclarkie wrote:No I don't think its to low, not at all. I just see you guys go head to head with your snipes a lot and it just makes me laugh. Those silly other bidders think they have a chance at getting a great deal and then BAM oh look they are in 3rd place.

Heh. I'm pretty sure there are at least one or two other "invisible" snipe bids which didn't make it into the system.

Brette and Christophe prolly don't mind too much anyhow...

Deadlord36 wrote:Ralf is, as usual, dead on. Those were the gems. That is only the third copy of that printing of Thaumaturgy I've ever seen, I have one and Burnie has one.

There have been (at least) three in eBay auctions within the last year. Only one of those was listed here, IIRC.

harami2000,

The PoVQ you won could be a first or second print, despite the fact that it says first print, based on The Acaeum's info. Once you receive could you provide more info? Just trying to figure out how to classify it.

Also please let me know your assessment on the condition.  It appears to be VG to Fine condition based on the sellers description and the photos.

Thanks

dbartman wrote:harami2000,
The PoVQ you won could be a first or second print, despite the fact that it says first print, based on The Acaeum's info. Once you receive could you provide more info? Just trying to figure out how to classify it.
Thanks

No probs.

I'm sticking with the official TSR and TSR distributor line for now, though!
If they say it should have a black folder, then I'm expecting a black folder rather than a ziploc.

The double-sided copies are interesting, especially since these appear for both the stated "1st" and "2nd" prints per your current list, Mike <invincible>'s "2nd" being the latest such; Palace of the Vampire Queen).
If all the double-siders went with either the ziploc or black folder, I'd be more inclined to push for one of those versions possibly preceeding the other...
(The other theory about the folders not being ready in time- as with them running out- is, of course, difficult to tally with the distribution of double-sided copies).

=

Questions;
Does anyone know where their ziploc copies were originally bought, if not first-hand?
Or whether all the ziploc bags are the same?

Heh. And I still get a chuckle when I read "(otherwise, who wouldn't just toss the folder and claim their copy was a First?)"

=

aside: With regards date, would the TSR reference be closer to late-1976 than mid-1976, even though the title page states "June 1976"?
Anyhow, I suspect the third print was pushing into 1977, otherwise would have been reviewed here, rather than the "black folder" version.
(ref. also the first Dwarven Glory).

That "cheap" 3rd PotVQ still needs listing along with the other realisations, too.

harami2000,

Please don't take offense at my comment.  I'm merely providing my initial assessment of the condition based upon what is visible and described in the auction, not on the opinion of the seller, which can be inflated to boost the selling price.  I would rather start conservative and base the final grade upon a detailed description, which you can provide once you have received it.  If you receive the item and it is actually in better condition than it appears, then it would be reflected in the grade assigned.  Bear in mind I am not recording this information to affect your resale value, if you would choose to sell it, I'm merely documenting it for historical purposes and valuation trends.  In reality if all Fine copies were to go for the amount you paid then the valuations would increase based upon the work being performed by valuation board members.  Besides, the valuations set on the Acaeum are guideline/estimates.  Many other factors, such as desire to have an item, come into play when an item is bid upon, as I'm sure you are aware of.

The sellers description:

"This item is in great shape, I would say near mint, the only problem is it apparently was stored in a box with shorter items and the folder is bent slightly at the upper edge and slightly at the spine in the middle. The interior pages, maps etc. are pristine and the folder design is in great shape."

Without looking at the contents it is really hard to judge what condition they are in but based upon the seller description and looking at the photos of the folder it is not in NM condition.  There are at the very least several large creases/folds visible on the folder.  Could it be in VF condition?  Perhaps, but probably not based on the visible damage to the folder.

Here's the descriptions of Fine & VG:

FINE: Many "high grade" items are actually in FINE condition (or degrees of Fine such as Fine/Very Fine or Very Good/Fine. At first glance, a FINE item may appear to be a higher grade, but on closer inspection flaws can be clearly seen.

There may be several smalls creases or even one slightly larger (1" or 2cm) crease. The top/bottom of the spine may show some heavier abrasion, perhaps even a small 1/8" (3mm) tear. Other possible flaws include: several heavier spine stress lines (either vertical or horizontal), a "scuff" to the surface that removes some of the color, rust to the staples (though at least 75% should be rust free), a tiny tear or very small piece missing from a corner (no more than 1/16" or 1 ½ mm) or a few small stains.

Often, Fine items simply have an greater accumulation of lesser flaws.

Though insert/maps may be detached and have some minor writing, they should still be intact (i.e. Character sheets should not be "cut out". )

VERY GOOD: This is the typical "average wear" grade. Spines show stress and may be slightly "frayed" or have minor tears. Module covers can have "splits" as long as 2" (5cm). Corners are often rounded, creased or frayed and edges may show similar wear. Other common flaws are "color fading", small stains, small tears, and writing on interior pages (perhaps even some highlighting). A slight warping and/or faint "musty odor" (usually from storage in a basement) may also be allowed.

Tape may have been used to "repair" the item, but it should be (at most) one or two small pieces.

A Very Good item can simply be an accumulation of several minor and moderate flaws or it may have very few minor flaws and one major detractor (such as a fold that goes the entire length of the cover, heavy rust on the staples, a page separated that was not designed to be "detachable", a large spine split or a writing on the outer cover.

FYI, Tadashi's copy was graded as fine.  Unlike what was mentioned in the description.

With respect to your PS.  I don't perform "tricks", nor would any other valuation board member.  We are responsible for recording the information in an unbiased and as accurate manner as possible for use in improving the information provided on The Acaeum.  We all take that job seriously, and, I would venture to say, have extensive experience in determining the condition of items.

Ultimately, what an individual chooses to pay for an item, based on the facts they have available, is entirely up to them.  The condition is just one factor in the equation.

Hey, don't feel bad, my Rahasia win was never posted, nor was my Inverness sale. Or my 2nd print brown box. Or my 1st print Chainmail............... etc. etc.

dbartman wrote:First, I'm afraid you have blown this out of proportion.

A $200 difference, mental or real, is worth discussing/debating.
Please don't tell me I'm blowing anything out of proportion in that context.
And at the least you're giving me a very bad taste to go with this win...

A lot of this also impacts on future confidence in collecting, which I'm rather shaky on in the context of this radical overhaul.

Hey, but presume silence to mean everyone else is happy, no?

dbartman wrote:

FYI, Tadashi's copy was graded as fine. Unlike what was mentioned in the description.

The records that I am currently maintaining are not reflected in what is on The Acaeum.

You never said that was your personal opinion.

"FYI, Tadashi's copy was graded as fine" looks very "official" to me.

dbartman wrote:Also, the grading conventions that I'm using are not published on The Acaeum. They were developed by the Valuation Board members. Please see the following information for more details on what is transpiring:

The Acaeum Valuation Board

I hope this provides some enlightenment.

Please don't appear to treat me as stupid or use that "form letter"/talking-down tone of voice.
Do you really think I could possibly have missed that thread?


Keeping the full grading criteria hidden from the list is NOT acceptable, IMHO.
The one's we've currently got to use are wishy-washy at best; almost overlapping in some cases and depending on glasses/x-ray vision for others.
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dbartman wrote:Why do you dispute this? You bought the PoVQ based on the facts that were available to you. There was no guarantee that the item was NM as indicated. In your case, perhaps condition was the ultimate factor, but not necessarily to everyone else.

The extreme price/grade variations on the new-look Acaeum valuation listings are clearly wrong in that case, since all it takes are a few people to go for the rares which might turn up in poorer condition to blow the mechanically computed values straight out of the water.
As will happen, of course.

But the extra sensitivity which has just been introduced for the higher grades has just made things even more awkward than they already were given that people DO base their bids on the information available here.

(And no, neither did I think it was "NM as indicated". ).

mbassoc2003 wrote:So does anyone know what grading Burnies copy was given?

Presumably the same grade as the one I won, once I'm finished with the hairdrier. (Thanks again to Mike <invincible> for the tip).



===

WDs #12 upwards. OKish copies in a short US auction, so might well be worthwhile for interested parties given current UK prices!
eBay listings
$2.99 each, with 2 3/4 days to go.

(No legal pdfs yet available )