Interesting Non-TSR Items Formerly on eBay
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Post Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:36 am 
 

I wonder why Britain produced so many fanzines?

Smaller...closer community?  (A Londoner might buy a fanzine made in Devonshire, for instance...while California is impossibly far away from Washington?)

Was there already an established small-press market?

I wonder....?

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Post Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 3:05 am 
 

MShipley88 wrote:I wonder why Britain produced so many fanzines?

Smaller...closer community?  (A Londoner might buy a fanzine made in Devonshire, for instance...while California is impossibly far away from Washington?)

Was there already an established small-press market?
I wonder....?

Fanzines were certainly very well established in other fields over here (music, soccer, SF&F - including fanzine editors such as Arthur C. Clarke from the 1930s onwards, wargaming, etc.), so it was an obvious tradition to continue.

Perhaps the surprise is that they took so long to become established for RPGs in the UK. In that context, it's difficult to determine whether TBH acted as a deterrant to others, or as an inspiration eventually (to challenge).

Yes, I think geography is a factor. There were definitely local 'flavors' but the whole was sufficiently tightly-knit and had a ready co-ordinator in the form of Games Workshop/White Dwarf; not just for ads, but also on distribution.
Of course, the prozines backstabbed us in the end. :(

  

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Post Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 6:15 am 
 

gyg wrote: D&D Dungeons Dragons | eBay

a tidy run of Beholders - condition not the best but a few more photos may be in order. One for Killjoy mayhaps (are you missing a few Al?)


damn cant keep anything hidden for long these days :)

oh well, this is gonna hurt a little

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Post Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 6:18 am 
 

faro wrote:
MShipley88 wrote:I wonder why Britain produced so many fanzines?

Smaller...closer community?  (A Londoner might buy a fanzine made in Devonshire, for instance...while California is impossibly far away from Washington?)

Was there already an established small-press market?
I wonder....?

Fanzines were certainly very well established in other fields over here (music, soccer, SF&F - including fanzine editors such as Arthur C. Clarke from the 1930s onwards, wargaming, etc.), so it was an obvious tradition to continue.

Perhaps the surprise is that they took so long to become established for RPGs in the UK. In that context, it's difficult to determine whether TBH acted as a deterrant to others, or as an inspiration eventually (to challenge).

Yes, I think geography is a factor. There were definitely local 'flavors' but the whole was sufficiently tightly-knit and had a ready co-ordinator in the form of Games Workshop/White Dwarf; not just for ads, but also on distribution.
Of course, the prozines backstabbed us in the end. :(


i think another thing might have been that these kinda zines were established around the colleges and universities. as they are all pretty close together too, you always had a good "client" base so to speak and easy to sell them, whereas the US is far more spread and so zines prb couldnt be established to the same degree as they could in the UK.

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Post Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 7:37 am 
 

killjoy32 wrote:i think another thing might have been that these kinda zines were established around the colleges and universities. as they are all pretty close together too, you always had a good "client" base so to speak and easy to sell them, whereas the US is far more spread and so zines prb couldnt be established to the same degree as they could in the UK.

Mmm... true to a degree phps; or else the US had a larger number of zines that remained housezines, in effect, since there was less incentive to spread beyond particular colleges/unis.

Over here, aside from the fact that many/most of the zines were written/edited by people before they went to uni, most of those at college/uni revolved around individuals rather that the college/uni societies (can only think of a few of the latter, e.g. Warwick, St. Andrews and Southampton).

Another factor would be that the APAs in the US absorbed much of the talent over there that might otherwise have become fully fledged zines in their own right in the UK.

  

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Post Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:48 pm 
 

I think distance had something to do with it.  Gaming groups at the University of Washington and Washington State...even though in the same state...are hundreds of miles apart and large sections of regional culture apart.  Oxford and Cambridge, by comparison, seem to almost share a campus (from an American point of view).

What I have seen of British gaming products also leads me to suspect that UK consumers were more likely to buy amateur publications that were less professional and more open to content that seems wierd to Americans.  I suspect that the slicker, professional publications just appealed more to American teenagers.

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Post Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 1:56 pm 
 

MShipley88 wrote:I think distance had something to do with it.  Gaming groups at the University of Washington and Washington State...even though in the same state...are hundreds of miles apart and large sections of regional culture apart.  Oxford and Cambridge, by comparison, seem to almost share a campus (from an American point of view).

What I have seen of British gaming products also leads me to suspect that UK consumers were more likely to buy amateur publications that were less professional and more open to content that seems wierd to Americans.  I suspect that the slicker, professional publications just appealed more to American teenagers.

Mark   8)


I suspect you are on to something with geography. I would add to your idea the thought that much of a fanzines popularity was word of mouth and getting to see copies. Since there was larger distances involved in the US the fanzines never got exposed to as large an audience perhaps and therefore could not survive. I also suspect that there may be as many fanzines but they are more localized. Have there not been a few pop up in the recent past that were Chicago or Philly specific (if I am wrong please go gentle on me) and that the average US player may never have seen or heard of?


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Post Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:23 am 
 

faro wrote:And had the run been less complete you might've picked them up for a reasonable price: single copies of TBH are still going for a couple of pounds whilst other stuff has been getting silly; and many of these will be later reprint copies, too, judging by the #1.
However, that run is nearly complete (judging by previous auctions, people pay a premium not a discount for that, as they might with Dragons, say!) and does have 26,28,29 which are rather sought after, regardless of condition.

OK, I've received a reply from the seller: unable to post that on the auction, apparently...
As expected, they're almost all reprints and the condition is so-so at best. A bit of mustiness and water-spotting on quite a few in addition to some annotations in pencil, biro on one cover, etc.

(Even if I might need one of the TBH/TAS issues and research into the reprints would be interesting, I'm passing).

  

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Post Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:02 am 
 

Not knowing much about these fanzines ... are reprints all that terrible?  It seems to me that auctions for originals or reprints are rare.  Is there a large difference in number printed or the actual printing dates (between the originals and the reprints)?

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Post Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:12 am 
 

Mars wrote:Not knowing much about these fanzines ... are reprints all that terrible?  It seems to me that auctions for originals or reprints are rare.  Is there a large difference in number printed or the actual printing dates (between the originals and the reprints)?

TBH is relatively common: I'd suspect that the total print runs for many/most/all core issues (1-25) was into four figures.
First print runs alone for later issues were 700-800ish, IIRC, with a high ratio of survivors.

IMO, reprints are still worth noting even if most people probably aren't too bothered about any difference from a 'value' p.o.v... although I do recall at least one late reprint #1 go for way too much. i.e. at least two people followed the usual 'earliest is most valuable' idiom, unaware that the actual print date was actually after #29.
Reprinting went on for several years after the run finished. I can't recall the actual date I dug out (?1983/4ish) and the 'search' function isn't finding my previous post on that.

So long as the water damage and mustiness isn't anything more than that, those currently up will make good reading copies. And plenty of decent content therein.
60-70 pounds would be about max. 'value', IMHO, despite those TBH/TAS issues being rarer.

  

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Post Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 5:08 am 
 

faro wrote:So long as the water damage and mustiness isn't anything more than that, those currently up will make good reading copies. And plenty of decent content therein.
60-70 pounds would be about max. 'value', IMHO, despite those TBH/TAS issues being rarer.


i will prb only go for them from the perspective that it would be nice to have one of every issue and then i can spend all the time i need to get earlier prints in better condition.

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Post Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:42 am 
 

Fifth Frontier War.  6 days, 10 hours.
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The Lonely Mountain, *unpunched*.  14 hours.
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Post Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:51 am 
 

I was out before I read about the water damage; thanks for sharing, David :D


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Post Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:50 am 
 

killjoy32 wrote:i will prb only go for them from the perspective that it would be nice to have one of every issue and then i can spend all the time i need to get earlier prints in better condition.

Yeah, and that's a problem since the prices do tend to be rather level, regardless of condition and printing.
No particularly heavy premium, it seems, unless they're a drop-dead gorgeous set (a neat trick for a self-published fanzine).

  

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Post Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:18 pm 
 

faro wrote:
killjoy32 wrote:i will prb only go for them from the perspective that it would be nice to have one of every issue and then i can spend all the time i need to get earlier prints in better condition.

Yeah, and that's a problem since the prices do tend to be rather level, regardless of condition and printing.
No particularly heavy premium, it seems, unless they're a drop-dead gorgeous set (a neat trick for a self-published fanzine).


yeah when i first saw them i though tthey looked pretty poxy to m, but there are about 6-7 items in there i REALLY would like. guess its like that for quite a few, so i guess whatever way it pans out, they aint gonna go cheap.

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Post Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:26 pm 
 

They look like they are worth bidding on.  Condition is not great, but then that should not be such an issue with an early fanzine.  The concept of a "reprint" is interesting, and I can see why collectors would care...but it hardly matters to me.

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Post Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:32 am 
 

UK auction: Starstone - looks ok too with no bids as yet:

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Post Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:27 am 
 

killjoy32 wrote:
faro wrote:Yeah, and that's a problem since the prices do tend to be rather level, regardless of condition and printing.
No particularly heavy premium, it seems, unless they're a drop-dead gorgeous set (a neat trick for a self-published fanzine).


yeah when i first saw them i though tthey looked pretty poxy to m, but there are about 6-7 items in there i REALLY would like. guess its like that for quite a few, so i guess whatever way it pans out, they aint gonna go cheap.

Al


Yes I know what you mean, only after 8, 28,29 myself... hmm... anyone else after particular issues?

Brette:)

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