G5/D4 Expanded lists • Collecting General

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G5/D4 Expanded lists
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Thork N Hammer
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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:53 am

It has been brought to my attention that, by expanding the D5 list to 20, the project has not been quite fair to those members that did not make the 1-15 cut-off of either the 1st, 2nd or both lists. I can see that.

New Edit
le rahib has graciously asked to be dropped from the extended G5/D4 list if it will make life simpler for all. I granted the request and, in doing so, will try to come up with another solution for those wishing "back copies" of these (probably a PDF is the most sensible thing)

Thus, the G5/D4 lists remain intact. With one exception that has absolutely no effect on any of the 1-15 collectors.

(Update: this post is under new consideration due to members' responses.)
(Update2: please scroll down to my latest post regarding this matter)

"Here's to swimmin with bowl-legged wimin"

Last edited by Thork N Hammer on Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:58 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Mizzle
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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:28 am

Hi,

put me down please.

Cheers,
KAL

bamajon1974
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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:39 am

Hello, I would like a copy of a copy of D4 and G5.

Thank you, JW

bamajon1974
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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:42 am

Sorry, here is tje response to your list. I would like #20 of each.

G5 List Price is $7.50+shipping
16. Dwarf
17.
18.le rahib
19.
20. bamajon1974

D4 List Price is $15.00+shipping
16.
17.
18.le rahib
19.
20. bamajon1974

Thanks, JW

mbassoc2003
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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:49 am

So how do you have cover sheets printed 1 of 15, and then an extra printing of X of 20? Starting to look a bit strange? Companies regularly change the quantities of their limited runs. Cairn of the Skeleton King was 1 of 350, and Tower of Blood 1 of 500 for example, and what if the next product comes out 1 of 25?

It's kinda rough as a proposal, looks awkward and ill thought out, and it jars with the current product in people's hands. It's also a u-turn on what you originally said you'd print when people paid their money. I know we're not talking big money here, but I'd feel the same way if the Acaeum Otis Print were reprinted for those who missed out the first time round.

This week I've been mostly eating . . . chicken and wild rice soup.

Thork N Hammer
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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:43 am

I agree with some of the members, that I do not like extending the lists retroactively. It does seem to "slight" the original print owners. But would also like to see everyone have a chance to complete their set.

Sadly, I think I opened a can of worms by doing so on the D5. If anything, I suppose I am guilty of trying to make everyone happy. But that might not, always, be possible.

Here's a thought, and I would appreciate everyone weighing in with their own on the idea:

instead of attempting to tack-on 5 to the the lists, making 16-25 a second print run of each, and calling it 2nd Printing "X" of 10?

Please give me some feed back. Since D5 has not begun its printing phase, I might be able to sort this all out sequentially.

"Here's to swimmin with bowl-legged wimin"

Last edited by Thork N Hammer on Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

mbassoc2003
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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:59 am

I'd say, just leave it as it is (1 LE printing only) and go with 20 on D5. That's all open and what everyone was buying into, and there is no reason to have one LE printing the same quantity as another. I'm sure the next Acaeum LE print won't be 85 copies (or whatever it was) but may be more. That doesn't mean they should have a second printing of the first LE, and I think people who bought into the early prints would find it strange that a 'second printing' was now proposed. It seems contrary to the original LE proposal.

Better to stick to your original intention and increase future print quantities as you see demand, rather than going back and changing the 15 copies and open bids on the original.

Just my 2c.

This week I've been mostly eating . . . chicken and wild rice soup.

Ak'Ptui
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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:52 am

Hi Rob,

I see you are trying to be as fair and equitable as you can in making your hereto unpublished material available. But you also have to understand one thing about collectors and that is you cannot make them all happy nor should you try.

You made a mistake and promised a few people they would be on the list for D5 and then didn't follow it up correctly. That is a perfectly understandable oversight and it is good that you should try and make it right for them. But that has nothing to do with anything that has gone on before. G4 is out the door and you have fulfilled your obligations there. If there is someone who is now #1 - #20 for D5 and they didn't get a copy of G4 that is just too bad and don't be afraid to tell them so. There is no little injustice here, let alone any big injustice. Seriously they will get over it and there is lots of other stuff for them to collect in the meantime. That's collecting for you.

Cheers!

Who says my inspiration was D&D? That was just a background phenomenon.
-- Ken St. Andre

Last edited by Ak'Ptui on Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ak'Ptui
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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:09 pm

For the record D5 has not gone to print and there is nothing stopping you from making it a 20 item run or 25 item run or however many you need it to be. It does not have to equal 15 like the previous one. But please leave the previous 15 print run of G4/5 as is.

I don't have a copy of that original G4 that you did for Dragon's Foot ...that means technically my RC Pinnell collection is not complete either. I missed out and that it that.

Cheers!

Who says my inspiration was D&D? That was just a background phenomenon.
-- Ken St. Andre

Thork N Hammer
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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:20 pm

UPDATE & PROPOSAL

bamajon1974 wrote:Sorry, here is tje response to your list. I would like #20 of each.

G5 List Price is $7.50+shipping
versimilitude
le rahib
bamajon1974

D4 List Price is $15.00+shipping
versimilitude
le rahib
bamajon1974

Thanks, JW

le rahib, bamajon and versimilitude have all expressed that they would like copies of the G5/D4.
To be fair to all parties involved--and this is the best solution I can come up with at the moment (if anyone has something better, please advise me on it)--I am not going to extend the G5/D4 #ered 1-15 list; this will put 1-15 as the original print, and any extra-spare copies as "Special".
I will, however, be willing to make copies of my copies of the G5/D4 to those that would like to complete their set; these will be copies of copies and not the original and not be #ered, but I will sign them upon request.

The extended D5 list was a mistake on my part, in an effort to simply make it available to a few more than the others; since many members expressed much regret for having not made the 1-15 on the others. But, it will stand as it is. I am sorry about all this, I am just trying to be fair to everyone, and do what's decent.

Does this seem fair and equitable to all?

"Here's to swimmin with bowl-legged wimin"

Mizzle
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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:35 pm

Hi,

well, not really.

Why exactly does there have to be the same number of copies for both print runs?

I missed the first module, and if I get a reprint, thats nice, but I'm not overly bothered.

I would prefer to go with the original first post in this thread, particularly as some people have already paid.

Cheers,
KAL

Gnat the Beggar
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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:35 pm

I agree (mostly) with the posts above.

D4 was announced here; then a number of copies agreed upon by you and the Members, then printed, all copies were paid for, all were shipped and I assume the original 15 purchasers obtained their assigned/numbered copy.
That specific Printed Module should now be locked away in the history of gaming vaults of those 15 lucky individuals.

I would not want to see a 2nd printing of that module after the fact now or even an extended print run of the 1st print after the fact as by all accounts the run was to be limited to 15 only... forever.
To go back now and make another 5 or 10 copies... seems, at best odd and VERY awkward to me.

That said, you are the sole author and owner of the copyrights.
This is your baby and you can do whatever you like with it.
But if I had a vote; I would ask you to not print more of them in the same vain/format.
Although if you decided to offer copies like your regular G Series on LULU, I would not have any sort of objection, since those would NOT be hard at all to distinguish between the original 15 hand signed copies we have.
In fact, I would purchase all three of them even though I have the original 15 copies of the three modules (or soon will).

Perhaps you can offer (for a limited time) LULU PDFs, for ALL three of these limited print run modules instead, at a reduced cost?

As for G5, it has not even been printed yet and I suspect that not all of the original 15 claims have even paid yet, so not the same situation at all.
You could print 15 or 1,115 copies if you wish.
NONE of us have any right to even have a legitimate say in that.

As a fan of your work, I am totally HAPPY to have seen your first post in time to get into the original 15 for all three modules.

On the other hand, if I had NOT gotten lucky that day and been unable to obtain a copy; then I would be sad to not at least be able to get a PDF.
So on that front I find myself backing off my original thoughts about you posting PDFs for sale of all three adventures.

In the end, You should do whatever it is that makes you and your family happy.
I would NOT be upset no matter what you decided to do here.
It is a tricky situatoin and I wish you both good luck and great wisdom in what you decide to do.

"Guys, I am starting to think Tegel Manor might be haunted..."
Stated by me as a PC during a run of Tegel Manor DMed by killjoy at NTRPGCon 2010

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Thork N Hammer
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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:45 pm

Versimilitude wrote:Hi,

well, not really.

Why exactly does there have to be the same number of copies for both print runs?

I missed the first module, and if I get a reprint, thats nice, but I'm not overly bothered.

I would prefer to go with the original first post in this thread, particularly as some people have already paid.

Cheers,
KAL

Please do not confuse the D5 list with the G5/D4 ones.
Those of you on the D5 list will all be getting the same copy, #1-20 and signed.
It is the G5/D4 lists that became a minor issue.
Ak'Ptui and others have brought up valid points, and this has to be addressed.
Unfortunately, I am not very business savvy, nor astute in the manners of collecting compared to the vast majority of Acaeum members. So, I shoot from the hip, speak before I think, and usually put my foot in my mouth.
Now, I am hustling to appease everyone.
It is not easy.

"Here's to swimmin with bowl-legged wimin"

mbassoc2003
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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:46 pm

The reprints, 'specials', copies of copies, all sounds a little amiss.
If you'd like a PDF of G5, for the purposes of selling the PDF to those who wish to have the information but missed a physical printing, I'd be happy to provide this service to you free and gratis. The quality of my PDFs are probably better than most of what 'professional companied' offer as scanned PDFs on the likes of RPGNow. Your clients won't be disappointed and they can print themselves a copy if they choose.

I would just say, you should probably not be offering physical paper copies now that that perticualr door has closed. It has an icky feeling about it.

I can get you the G5 PDF within 24 hours and the D4 within 24 hours of receiving my copy. Besides, I need to promote my PDF expertise.

This week I've been mostly eating . . . chicken and wild rice soup.

Ak'Ptui
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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:48 pm

You're the author Rob, this is great material and a great series and I am ok with whatever format you want to run with!

I'm not sure how this whole limited thing started in the first place as your stuff has a good following on Lulu from a lot of members here. Why couldn't this stuff have just been uploaded to Lulu and made POD for those who were interested either for collecting, reading, or gaming?

If the limited runs are to continue I would just like to see people dealt with in a more firm manner (that includes me) would be my only comment as to fairness. I mean really use the iron gloves on people because once you are flexible with a few, a few more will ask for concessions or a few more will have something to complain about, and really why shouldn't they. The whole idea that because you need to open up the current print to more people means that you should also do it for your previous release is flawed and fairness would have been to politely rebuff whoever made it. But I also can't fault a guy who's first instinct is to try and help someone out.

My preferred solution on future stuff is to just go back to offering your material on Lulu unless there is technical or financial reasons not to. Also pdfs of any material should be available for purchase, whether the print is LE or not. Your roots are gaming and that is what you should be fulfilling first, plus your take on PDF sales is higher than on the POD so having the PDFs available means you are getting paid by however many people want to buy the material.

Cheers!

Who says my inspiration was D&D? That was just a background phenomenon.
-- Ken St. Andre

Thork N Hammer
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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:07 pm

Thanks, Ak-- for being so supportive.

The reasoning behind the hard copies of the 1st 2 adventures is, simply, all I had were the hard copies--they were not in my computer. The D5 is in the computer. I actually loaded it up into Lulu and ordered a proof copy to see how it would look--which came last week, and had some cover page fuzziness but otherwise looked neat.

I decided to offer the same hard copy # and signed for the D5 so the entire set would be cohesive in appearance; a POD from Lulu would be more PRO looking, but not look like the 2 previous ones at all.

I think I have fixed the fuzziness on the Lulu POD copy (cover pages) but, I cannot afford to keep buying proof-copies to verify this.

I can certainly make it open to direct order, but only after this project is finished.

My head is spinning in circles trying to come up with a solution that will please all. So bear with me. I am trying.

"Here's to swimmin with bowl-legged wimin"

mbassoc2003
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Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:48 pm

Well, if you'd like to offer those who missed the earlier print options a copy of the PDF, they could buy direct from you. You know who receives a copy of the PDF (so if it goes wild on the internet there are only a finite list of sources), and theose who receive a copy of the PDF can print their own hardcopy.

No need to have a signed second edition. No need to go back on your previous limited edition assurance that people bought into at the start. For the most part the people who bought in at day one have supported you throughout. I think direct control yourself of the PDF would reassure everyone that it was a small personally controlled distribution, and also negate the need for reprints of the previous limited editions.

Besides, a limited edition isn't much of a limited edition if there are more copies and the only diference is you change the signed sheet. And the PDF is OCR, so if you want to transcribe into Word, you can.

This week I've been mostly eating . . . chicken and wild rice soup.

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