DCC RPG beta this Wed
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Post Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:26 pm 
 

By your own words, every RPG in history has required the following items: rulebook, paper, pencils, and dice. I have shown you two games that eliminate the dice. Therefore, your statement is demonstrably false, since not every RPG in history requires dice. A game adding something to the mix is not unheard of either. Just look at pre-Supplement 1 OD&D, which only required a d6. When Supplement I was released, suddenly a d4, d8, d12(?), and d20 were required to go with the d6. That is a significant addition, and is as significant an addition as DCC requiring funky dice. Yet neither you nor I have ever played Dungeons & Dragons using only a d6. We've always used the platonic solids. After that came the one non-platonic solid: the d10.

People objected to the dice back when they were introduced for Dungeons & Dragons. You're objecting to the funky dice now. Times may change, but the gripes remain the same. The only real difference is that thirty years from now, no one is likely to remember the DCC RPG.

I haven't read the PDF so I can't say one way or another about whether the "complication" is pointless or not. But have you given any thought to the very real possibility that the DCC RPG isn't really geared for us? After all, Goodman Games made its bread and butter by, in simple language, publishing twisted conversions of established modules for the d20 System.



  

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Post Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:16 am 
 

Traveller wrote:By your own words, every RPG in history has required the following items: rulebook, paper, pencils, and dice. I have shown you two games that eliminate the dice. Therefore, your statement is demonstrably false, since not every RPG in history requires dice. A game adding something to the mix is not unheard of either. Just look at pre-Supplement 1 OD&D, which only required a d6. When Supplement I was released, suddenly a d4, d8, d12(?), and d20 were required to go with the d6. That is a significant addition, and is as significant an addition as DCC requiring funky dice. Yet neither you nor I have ever played Dungeons & Dragons using only a d6. We've always used the platonic solids. After that came the one non-platonic solid: the d10.

People objected to the dice back when they were introduced for Dungeons & Dragons. You're objecting to the funky dice now. Times may change, but the gripes remain the same. The only real difference is that thirty years from now, no one is likely to remember the DCC RPG.

I haven't read the PDF so I can't say one way or another about whether the "complication" is pointless or not. But have you given any thought to the very real possibility that the DCC RPG isn't really geared for us? After all, Goodman Games made its bread and butter by, in simple language, publishing twisted conversions of established modules for the d20 System.


Having read the pdf I can say that it is geared for 'us' and the DF and OSR crowds as well. I just hope that a DCC rulebook sitting on the shelves will appeal to younger players as well. It may.

The point about bringing up the 'funky' dice and objecting to them is that this is a beta playtest ruleset looking for feedback. I think that before anyone says they won't buy the final version of the rulebook they should take a moment and send Goodman their reaction and objections. In the end they may very well find a game more to their liking (though you can't please everyone).


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Post Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:26 am 
 

Traveller wrote:...
People objected to the dice back when they were introduced for Dungeons & Dragons. You're objecting to the funky dice now. Times may change, but the gripes remain the same. The only real difference is that thirty years from now, no one is likely to remember the DCC RPG.
...


Not sure if the thirty year thing will be accurate or not. How many other RPG's from the 70's through early 80's can you remember off the top of your head?* If they do it correctly, I think they'll fill a slot that is currently missing from most local gaming stores. I have 4 stores that are within 30 or so minutes from me. Not one has any new "old school" rules or manuals. If you are new to RPGs in my area, you're going to be stuck with WOTC or PAIZO if you want to buy locally. If this is marketed correctly, I can see it taking off.

* the ones I can remember off the top of my head: tunnels & trolls, runequest, traveller, rolemaster, warhammer, cthulhu, bushido, thieves world...more if I took time to actually think about it

  


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Post Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:09 pm 
 

To bad they wont have copies available in time for Gen Con.  I've got it downloaded and will give it a quick read but I'm not so sure about the variable spell effects (another layer of complexity and page flipping that might become tedious IMO).  Like the race as class it could be ignored but then why don't we just break out a different game?  I do like the art though, nice to see something similar to the 1E art style (lots of different artists and styles).


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Post Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 3:35 pm 
 

I just finished reading the beta rules, and I must say that I am rather impressed. I especially enjoyed the magic system, as it makes spell casting a rather dangerous and chaotic affair, reminding one of the nature of magic as presented in H.P. Lovecraft and Clark Ashton Smith's weird yarns. Even though I will probably not the use the rules system as written, I will most definitely be incorporating several elements from the game into my 1st Edition AD&D game. I also found the rules to be an entertaining read, the designer having a distinctive voice that is both humorous and scholarly at the same time. In other words, the book reads like the Hackmaster GMG but without all of the corny puns.

Specific elements from the rules I enjoyed are as follows:

1. Spell Corruption Table
2. Spell Fumble Table
3. Deity Disapproval Table
4. Supernatural Patron Rules for Arcane Spellcasters
5. Mighty Deeds of Arms: A nice set of rules for abjudicating special actions by PCs such as complicated acrobatic moves and called shots.

Some Elements I didn't particularly care for:

1. Spell Dueling Rules: I found the rules to be a bit too convoluted for my tastes with too much book-keeping involved.
2. Critical Hit Tables: Even though I fully realize that many RPG rule systems over the years have used critical hit mechanics, meaning that players seem to enjoy the complexity and variety they add, I have never particularly cared for them. It can make the game too deadly and unpredictable in my opnion. That being said, the specific consequences for critical hits detailed on the various tables in the book are quite creative and well-written. The consequences for a critical hit as detailed in the tables would make for some interesting trap effects.  

Thanks for reading,
                          Alphonso Warden


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Post Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 1:30 am 
 

Munafik wrote:Specific elements from the rules I enjoyed are as follows:

1. Spell Corruption Table
2. Spell Fumble Table
3. Deity Disapproval Table
4. Supernatural Patron Rules for Arcane Spellcasters
5. Mighty Deeds of Arms: A nice set of rules for abjudicating special actions by PCs such as complicated acrobatic moves and called shots.

IMHO creative DMs and players should already do similar things while playing.  Making such things mandatory brings more roleplaying back to combat, albeit heavy-handedly when compared to most modern RPGs.

  


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Post Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 4:30 pm 
 

Traveller wrote: Just look at pre-Supplement 1 OD&D, which only required a d6. When Supplement I was released, suddenly a d4, d8, d12(?), and d20 were required to go with the d6. That is a significant addition, and is as significant an addition as DCC requiring funky dice. Yet neither you nor I have ever played Dungeons & Dragons using only a d6.


We've never played supplementless OD&D with D6 only, because to do so would mean ditching the saving throw, contact higher plane, number appearing, % in liar tables, etc. If you lacked a D12, you wouldn't know how many mummies you've encountered.

  

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Post Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:13 am 
 

You're right. I had weapon damage in mind when I said that. But, when you find the saving throw tables in OD&D, let me know. Somehow, I doubt you'll find them. I spent three years going over all the books with a fine-toothed comb and I couldn't find them.



  


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Post Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:11 am 
 

The saving throw table is on page 20 of Men&Magic. Do you mean that it doesn't explicitly say to use a d20 when rolling on the table?


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